Bastard bingo around the campfire

[helplesshopeless]

Hi everyone...creating thread number 2 (or at least, attempting to...!) Link to old thread here

If that link doesn't work, I'll be forever indebted to any of you more mumsnet savvy folks helping me out!

I'll come back in a bit to post properly, thank you all again for your help and support

Is it possible OP that your anxiety about "triggering him further" has to do with your acceptance of his version, that if you play nicely he will play nicely... and that you moving out would escalate the situation?

It seems really typical of him to manipulate you into thinking that way, when it's him escalating the situation. I mean, I'm pretty sure that if the boot was on the other foot you would hesitate before showing him a death threat message. You would, like any normal human being, consider that a rather "escalating" thing to do. Instead, he expects you to sweep it under the carpet, like everything else he gets away with.

Any escalation is entirely down to you and entirely your fault. Is his version. Which keeps you trapped in a very unstable and frightening situation. There is no need for this.

What worse thing are you afraid of triggering if you were to leave with your DD than what is already happening?
What worse thing will it take for you to leave with her to your friends’ house?

As I said before, know where your lines in the sand are.

When your solicitor says that it becomes war when solicitors get involved, what she fails to realise is that it is war already in his mind. A good solicitor and mediator will put a buffer between you and him. Yes, it costs money but that is not his real concern, his concern is about control, which he keeps losing. So again, be clear in your mind at what point you insist on third party intervention (and if your solicitor does not understand domestic violence including psychological violence, look for one who does).

My other concern, setting all the threats and erratic behaviour aside and assuming that you are the best judge of how to manage the situation, is that he thinks you have agreed to six days in a fortnight. What you have actually agreed to is six days in a fortnight when DD is ready. Does he know your proposal is an aim? What if she does not manage the contact?

In my experience, what will help is if he knows that he will still have a relationship with DD as her father and this is not about cutting that off, and that this relationship will work best if it is in the boundaries of what Dd can manage and grow into, and that is what you are trying to work towards.

In my experience also, my ex only listened to that when the courts had first of all put some boundaries in place.

Your solicitor is right that all communications through solicitors is expensive. However, that doesn't mean that your only option is to discuss things one on one with him. You could:

1. discuss things in writing via email
2. discuss things in a joint counselling session
3. discuss things with a mediator

I had to go down the first route, it's obviously a bit more difficult if you still live together.

Also he doesn't get to refuse mediation. You request it, the mediator contacts him and if he refuses it will count against him if arrangements go to court. The whole point of mediation is to help steer through these emotive conversations productively. Please use one. It will help. He's not the boss of this process.

Did he actually file for divorce in the end or was he bullshitting again?

for you. This is hard, stick with it, you are doing well even if its painful.

Dear OP, I have been following your posts from the day one (first thread). These days I am very anxious every time I read the updates. Perhaps you are not aware of it but looking back I can clearly see the escalation of his behaviour and it scares the shit out of me (pardon my language). I am worried that me and all the other people who have been following your thread and conversing with you will in the end be witnessing a terrible tragedy, like some kind of a dark version of reality TV. That you will post one day that something terrible has happened to you and your daughter or even worse, that you will just stop posting and we will never know what happened. I cannot say anything new, anything that someone else has not said, but still I feel that I must add to it….. this behaviour is not normal. No matter how angry a person may be, what your husband says and does to you is NOT normal. I do not think you or anybody else can say for certain what this man is capable of doing. Him always apologizing afterwards and going back to “I am so sad”, especially creeps me out.

Listen OP, long time ago, I stood in front of my father while he was crying big fat tears saying that nobody understands him, that he is this tragic figure, all alone in this world while my sister and I are on our mom’s side always. All this was happening just minutes after we caught him with his hands around her neck trying to strangle her. We yelled at him to let her go or else we will call police and he looked at us, eyes bloodshot, “Police, you would call police on your father?!! How dare you!??” he was yelling, “I will kill you all and then I will kill myself”. He did not kill anyone, thank God, but he might have. My mom never left him, but we lived in fear, always. Till the day she died.

There are all kinds of people out there and some of them are very dangerous. The fact that they are our husbands, fathers or brothers does not mean that we are safe. That man you live with, he is dangerous and he does not deserve you, or your daughter. If you ask me, he should not be allowed to see her at all, not without supervision. You should not try to be fair to him, negotiate with him. Mediators and lawyers are there precisely for this kind of situation when someone’s partner is like yours. They are there to help you and protect you.

If I were you, I would go to the police and I would change the lawyer. I would leave the house and tell the SOB that I do not want to talk to him at all.

Please take care of yourself OP. I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

@loveyourself2020 [flowers[
I'm so sorry ... and so glad that you have found another way forward with your life, instead of treading in your mum's footsteps.

You are right, that a man who thinks only of his own "sadness" is a bit of a loose cannon at the best of times.

OP, I've been reading from the beginning empathisibg and rooting for you. I haven't contributed until now because, not having any relevant experience, I didn't feel I had anything to add to the (absolutely stellar) advice from the others.

But reading your last update has made my blood run cold and I have to speak up.

I genuinely believe that this man is a danger to you and your daughter.

The message he typed on his phone was a threat to PUSH YOU DOWN THE STAIRS.

Wtaf!!!! Read that again and again. Surely you can see how serious this is?

He is very clearly escalating and you MUST stop minimising it. Normal men, however devasted they are by the end of their marriage, do not threaten to do this.

Please, please listen to what everyone is saying. You need a safe place to go, to get all his threatening, inappropriate and unstable behaviour logged, and to let the lawyer deal with him.

Don't wait for it to get even worse, or until it's too late.

Just to add, the threat about the stairs was not something he blurted out in the heat of the moment, that he couldn't control (although this is arguable..) and take back.

He had to get his phone, type it out and then show it to you in his sick little game. And before that he had to have the twisted idea of the silent, untraceable threat in the first place.

In other words it was premeditated, which makes is all the more disturbing.

Dear Op,

A few months ago l had my own thread. On it, various wise posters told me to end the marriage.

As things escalated, l remember one line that stayed with me....it was 'please listen to us'

So now l repeat that line to you....'please listen to us'.

My husband never got violent or made threats in the manner of yours. But l sensed things were ramping up. Maybe due to witnessing my own parents and the abuse there, my hackles were raised and l sensed danger.

When he went to visit a friend for a few days l fled.

You now have a golden window of opportunity. He will be away so gather your things and your daughter and leave.

Please believe me, your relationship is as close to exploding into violence as it possibly can be. In fact l feel it already has with the death threats ( remember the one on holiday) and the wrestling of the phone off you threat.

An 'accidental' push down the stairs could kill you, disable you and put you in hospital for weeks. Who would be looking after your daughter then?

I mean this gently, but you took a real risk going on holiday with him. Don't take anymore please.

No more benefit of the doubt, take your daughter and go.

Please listen to us

If not for you but for your daughter.

I am very scared for you HH, please leave and take DD with you.

Please.

I'm probably a lone voice here ,but I think we have to acknowledge HH's intelligence (intellectual and emotional) and recognise that she knows her husband better than we do .

I have confidence in her and feel that she will do what she needs to to keep herself and her daughter safe .

peridito those urging HH to leave aren't suggesting she's not emotionally or intellectually intelligent at all, and I really hope she's not reading it like that.

But it's the boiling frog analogy, and sometimes - regardless of their intelligence - people can be blind to how bad their situation is because they are so used to it and/or don't want to think badly of others. Other people shouting loudly "this isn't right, you are in danger" aren't suggesting that person is too stupid to see the danger they are in, it's just that they can have a better perspective being outside the situation.

And those voices can often give much-needed permission to act.

@Cavagirl

peridito those urging HH to leave aren't suggesting she's not emotionally or intellectually intelligent at all, and I really hope she's not reading it like that.

But it's the boiling frog analogy, and sometimes - regardless of their intelligence - people can be blind to how bad their situation is because they are so used to it and/or don't want to think badly of others. Other people shouting loudly "this isn't right, you are in danger" aren't suggesting that person is too stupid to see the danger they are in, it's just that they can have a better perspective being outside the situation.

And those voices can often give much-needed permission to act.

Yes, of course. I mean, there is so much domestic violence happening all over the world. These women are not stupid. There are all sorts of reasons why they do not leave. Some of them are scared to leave, or have no where to go, or are ashamed to admit what is happening to them, but some simply do not see it until it is too late.

It's unfortunate that the only way to tell the difference between an overreaction and an underreaction is in retrospect.

It's not worth taking a chance on this sort of thing, and if OPs STBXH had any humanity he'd understand this and respect her caution, especially where DD is concerned.

I wonder did Your bastard H actually go on this w/e away ?
I would double lock the doors.

So sad and frightening to read what is happening to you, @helplesshopeless. I don't remember exactly but didn't you think he would never get physical? Many posters on here say that at some point... But now he has.

A while back posters mentioned hearing his voice coming across in how you report events, instead of your own. And I know you consciously tried to shake that off and speak purely for yourself.

But I think in this
I just don't want to do anything that will push it into escalation again

we are still hearing his voice. Every escalation has come from him. Have you ever tried to wrestle his phone out of his hands? I doubt it. If a man pushed a woman down the stairs, could any words she had said make that her fault? No because escalation to physical violence is never ever warranted. But he wants you to think that would be only natural under some circumstances. Just no.

Getting away physically is the only safe option now. Not getting the house ready for sale, not sitting down for another discussion.

I would assume he is recording everything himself from now on. But it doesn't matter. You don't have to prove his threats to any authority. Leaving because the relationship is over is a good enough reason.

Kids are resilient and going with you to stay somewhere nice with nice people will not destabilise your daughter!

Just a note, that my first real sustainable memories of my childhood are from 4 years old, I really can't remember my brother being born when I was 3, so stop worrying about upsetting DD.
Her biggest upset will be if you are injured, or worse

Has he agreed to get the house valued ? Please get more than one valuation, from agents that aren't organized by HIM.

Is everything ok, @helplesshopeless?

I'm hoping OP is busy packing up her stuff to move home to her Mums,
having copied all pay slips, important documents .or already there being covered in love & support

I'm concerned about how things are escalating. I hope you're safe, OP. This is not normal behaviour.

The OP was going to tell her mum this weekend and her husband was going away for the weekend .

She's probably busy ,sure she'll update when she can .

I hope you are now somewhere safe HH.

It sounded like on Friday you were still trying to make everything be ok. But everything isn’t ok. And it’s ok to admit that, and to ask for all the help you need to get yourself and your little girl somewhere safe. She will be fine as long as she’s got you in her life.

Hi all, just very quickly dropping in to let you know I'm ok! I spoke to 101 yesterday and am going to the station to speak to someone this week hopefully. Also told my mum! He's continuing to be extremely manipulative but no further physical threats. I will see what the police say and take it from there.

Oh dear
Not sounding good.

Well done HH. We’re all rooting for you. The thing with the phone was really evil and I’m so looking forward to hearing that you’ve got away from him safely. Please don’t minimise what he did or try to explain it away.