Bastard bingo around the campfire

[helplesshopeless]

Hi everyone...creating thread number 2 (or at least, attempting to...!) Link to old thread here

If that link doesn't work, I'll be forever indebted to any of you more mumsnet savvy folks helping me out!

I'll come back in a bit to post properly, thank you all again for your help and support

@Boonlark I've never heard of that before, but it's exactly what my DH does. It's not long since he was saying I'm nasty and passive aggressive and that he doesn't care if I'm not happy etc. ... Then suddenly for example tonight he's making polite conversation with me, asking which national anthem I think is better, Spain or Italy. And tickling our youngest ds, which is literally all he's got in terms of engaging with the kids, trying to make everything look rosy and all happy family. If I don't join in with the happy-clappyness of it all, then it looks like I'm the bad guy. He bought me a George Foreman grill for my birthday, and because I didn't seem overwhelmed with happiness at it, he didn't speak to me for three weeks. Things like that. I'm always the bad guy. Then when he 'tries' I'm expected to fall at his feet and everything be fine again. Well it's not.

[quote 19Bears]@Boonlark I've never heard of that before, but it's exactly what my DH does. It's not long since he was saying I'm nasty and passive aggressive and that he doesn't care if I'm not happy etc. ... Then suddenly for example tonight he's making polite conversation with me, asking which national anthem I think is better, Spain or Italy. And tickling our youngest ds, which is literally all he's got in terms of engaging with the kids, trying to make everything look rosy and all happy family. If I don't join in with the happy-clappyness of it all, then it looks like I'm the bad guy. He bought me a George Foreman grill for my birthday, and because I didn't seem overwhelmed with happiness at it, he didn't speak to me for three weeks. Things like that. I'm always the bad guy. Then when he 'tries' I'm expected to fall at his feet and everything be fine again. Well it's not.[/quote]
.
I've been there

IME he won't change, so the only change you can make, is to end the relationship.

he's devastated and saying I have no idea how much pain I am causing him, and I'm taking away everything he's ever wanted and all the usual stuff about how i'm ruining everything for our daughter.

now ,you see, I think this is truly awful .Cruel . It's not lashing out - knee jerk remark about willies - it's not being said in the heat of the moment .

It shows that he has a very great inclination towards selfishness and cruelty .It's not about saying things because he's in pain .

Hope you’re ok @helplesshopeless and that things have been calm. When are you heading back?

Hi everyone, just dropping in to let you know I'm ok!

Had a tumultuous few days. Having a lovely time still with our daughter, my husband's mood is very up and down. As an example, he was ok all day yesterday, almost quite pleasant in part, but then yesterday evening I mentioned that I could go to work at a (female) colleague's house next week to get out of his way. For some reason that completely turned him and he started being extremely rude and threatening, couple of examples:

'Remember that I have loads of contacts in every firm that you could work at, and I could make everyone aware of what you've done, so if you're thinking of playing hardball [with our daughter], don't' - that literally came out of nowhere, all I've repeatedly said is that we will agree at mediation what is in her best interests.

'Don't worry, there'll be plenty of time you'll have without her [our daughter] soon enough' - in response to me wanting to check she was ok on her own playing

Loads of other verbal abuse about me being a whore, he hates me, how my boss would love to hear all about it...

I attempted the tactics of @FantasticButtocks and said I was noting his threats and would be writing everything down. Unfortunately this spectacularly backfired (because it always does when I try anything that he is better at!) and he ended up sending me a huge number of WhatsApp messages saying how threatened he felt by me, how I was trying to cut him out of our daughters life, how I'd never allowed him to develop a relationship with her, how I'd been threatening all holiday that I wouldn't allow him to see her, how he's so intimidated by my threats, and so on. All just complete and utter lies.

Honestly I have no idea how to handle him because as soon as I show a hint of trying to take control he absolutely lets rip with the lowest of the low behaviour. He even randomly comes out with spiteful things like how he won't help her make me birthday cards and Mother's Day cards, which I don't care about for me but she loves doing things like that. He's just being so selfish

Funnily enough, this morning he woke up and messaged me inviting me to come into his room for a cuddle!! politely declined.

Holding onto the hope that once the dust settles he'll realise this is happening regardless of what he says, and he needs to start working with me on it.

Please wake up!
and see him for the vile person he is.

I bet you anything, he will never "work with you", he is determined to grind you down, abuse you and get you back in his prison that you have dared to think you can escape from.

I don't know how you can bear to remain on "holiday" with him. Why on earth are you still there? Take DD and leave him to rant and spout his bile to an empty room.

He is projecting – what he says he will do to you is what he fears for himself. So he will tell all your colleagues how awful you are – he dreads them finding out that HE has lost his wife and family, because HE is an awful person.

Anyway, he doesn't have to work with you – you have to get your own plan in place. What is going to happen when you get home? Is there anywhere you can stay short term until you can rent somewhere for you and DD? Staying under the same roof is surely untenable now?

@helplesshopeless

Hi everyone, just dropping in to let you know I'm ok!

Had a tumultuous few days. Having a lovely time still with our daughter, my husband's mood is very up and down. As an example, he was ok all day yesterday, almost quite pleasant in part, but then yesterday evening I mentioned that I could go to work at a (female) colleague's house next week to get out of his way. For some reason that completely turned him and he started being extremely rude and threatening, couple of examples:

'Remember that I have loads of contacts in every firm that you could work at, and I could make everyone aware of what you've done, so if you're thinking of playing hardball [with our daughter], don't' - that literally came out of nowhere, all I've repeatedly said is that we will agree at mediation what is in her best interests.

'Don't worry, there'll be plenty of time you'll have without her [our daughter] soon enough' - in response to me wanting to check she was ok on her own playing

Loads of other verbal abuse about me being a whore, he hates me, how my boss would love to hear all about it...

I attempted the tactics of @FantasticButtocks and said I was noting his threats and would be writing everything down. Unfortunately this spectacularly backfired (because it always does when I try anything that he is better at!) and he ended up sending me a huge number of WhatsApp messages saying how threatened he felt by me, how I was trying to cut him out of our daughters life, how I'd never allowed him to develop a relationship with her, how I'd been threatening all holiday that I wouldn't allow him to see her, how he's so intimidated by my threats, and so on. All just complete and utter lies.

Honestly I have no idea how to handle him because as soon as I show a hint of trying to take control he absolutely lets rip with the lowest of the low behaviour. He even randomly comes out with spiteful things like how he won't help her make me birthday cards and Mother's Day cards, which I don't care about for me but she loves doing things like that. He's just being so selfish

Funnily enough, this morning he woke up and messaged me inviting me to come into his room for a cuddle!! politely declined.

Holding onto the hope that once the dust settles he'll realise this is happening regardless of what he says, and he needs to start working with me on it.

Well I'm sorry it's gone this way, though not surprised.

Keep his untruthful WhatsApp messages as well. Then when you're explaining everything to your lawyer you can tell them exactly what he did.

He's so angry now. He's so abusive and offensive.

I know you keep 'hoping' he will ... but he won't. So don't waste your mental energy and time on hoping that he will be civilised and decent if only you do whatever... he won't!

Wishing you strength for what lies ahead

He is proving, every day, why you are completely right to end this.

Glad you're ok! He's being horrible.

Can I ask a genuine question? What makes you think he's ever going to "work with you" rather than against you? God knows I wish he would, but he never has has he?

Please note that the two big triggers you mention in that message are things that involve you having your own space and thoughts: going to someone else's house, and having your own private notes. He can't stand it can he. This is why you need to leave. Sending a hug.

It looks to me he is building a paper trail of things you have said (false) to support his case of you being unreasonable & making threats.
This is spectacularly conniving & underhand.
He is light years ahead of you, its so manipulative.
He now has "proof" even though you never said those things
You should reply, "you should keep of the tequila, I haven't said any of those things, I have said we should decide what's in Dds best interest in mediation

Awful. He's training you that if you try to assert yourself, you get it back x 10
Please start thinking what you want and what's best for DD. I know you think he deserves 50/50 but he doesn't need any of your headspace and actually with your recent updates it sounds like DD might be better with you more of the time as you are consistent and not using her as a pawn to get at him.
FWIW I have 50/50 with exH and believe it's in the children's best interests to have a good relationship with both their parents, so I'm not coming from any place other than what sounds like it will be best for your DD

You should reply, "you should keep of the tequila, I haven't said any of those things, I have said we should decide what's in Dds best interest in mediation
Yes agree with this. Get formal with him, if he says something untrue factually challenge it.
It's so horrid. Again, gets easier when you can just block the twunt

OP I am so sorry you are going through all this and I really hope that you will be able to get to a safe space soon. However, I am sure that he is not going to just let you got, he will probably continue to harass you just like he is doing now. This situation you explained got me thinking, his behavior, so erratic, could it be a mental illness of some sort? It is quite possible, not that excuses him of anything, nor that I think you should be dealing with it. However, I think that you should really try to talk to as many people as you can, your family, a therapist, your family physician and to be honest, I would go and talk to police as they have experience with this sort of thing. Also, what you have in UK, women's aid, I think it is called. I am just worried that he may escalate into something much worse. Read some posts on MN about that.

Do take care OP. I wish you the best.

Assertive techniques are your friend helpless!
Broken record - I never said those things, I said we should discuss what's best for DD in mediation. Ad nauseum. Every time he says something.

I second the advice of speaking to the police and certainly your solicitor to log his erratic and threatening behaviour. I know you think he’s just hurt and lashing out verbally but he seems to be upping the ante and he’s being more threatening and menacing. Cornered, injured animals lash out by growling and then with physical aggression. His behaviour sounds like this. Yes, he’s hurt but he’s also scared and spiralling out of control so he’s lashing out by threatening to hurt you in any way he can whether it be with your daughter, your employer and friends.

I think you need to be very careful and vigilant for your physical safety as well as monitoring his underhand cataloguing of fabricated events. He’s a nasty, devious and dangerous man.

He is certainly going about the right way to ensure that you can never reconcile with him. At this stage, I would be considering where I could go, to get safely away from him, with your child, while you sort out the separation.

And please, PLEASE - have you told your mum what's going on? She needs to know. That way if you ever have to run to her, it won't be a huge shock.

I am glad your daughter is having a good time but nothing is worth you having to ensure this awful abuse.
When are you due home?
Please leave (with your daughter) as soon as you get home. God knows how you can stand to hear so much evil bile from him. He will destroy your mental health.

Honestly just think she's used to it? People not living with an abuser would be running out appalled. It's the lobster thing isn't it.

Definitely, reply to ( and keep all!) his vile messages, saying he is lying, you have never said any of this and re iterating you only want what is in the best interests for DD.

OP,
Please tell your parents and keep yourself safe.

He is such an awful person.

The fact that you oscillate from one day having the most vile things said to you and your child, to having a lovely day back to again pure ugliness tells me that you are a hugely abused woman who has no idea how badly you have been affected and conditioned to accepting his horrendous behaviour.

You need to keep yourselves safe at all times.

He is a frightened vicious man losing control, that makes him a dangerous one.

As others have said, a short reply along the lines of ‘none of these things are true, please stop sending me lies’ is needed here.
The thing is, he can say what he likes, the key thing is that you don’t believe his truth, and put that on record. Just briefly refute and ask him to stop. I would not engage in any tit for tat.

To some extent, I think he is still trying to scare you into submission and this has worked in the past. It is why he offered you the chance to repent and come ‘for a cuddle’. It is the cycle of abuse on speed.

On the other hand, maybe he believes this version and events and plans to take it all the way to court. Does he have a shred of evidence to back up any of his claims? As cavagirl (I think) said upthread, you need to be very clear that his narrative and yours are separate. You have tried your utmost to make this marriage work for the sake of your daughter and his relationship with your daughter.

As for you not allowing him to have a relationship with his daughter, this is actually a fairly manipulative power play - he has let you do the majority of the domestic and childcare, and now he realises this means the status quo is DD stays more with you, he is trying to turn it around to say you were obstructive and make you deny this and to prove it, give him more time. Beyond the statement that none of this is true, ignore this. Know your truth. Of course, what a court is interested in is DD’s best interests going forward, not who did what in the past, so to some extent this is all a distraction, he is just trying to wrong foot you.

The sooner you can get some space between you, the better. Unfortunately, he knows DD is your Achilles heel, so you do need good legal representation and nerves of steel. Hold onto what is important to you in terms of getting her best interests met. All that effort you put into trying to make the marriage work needs to go into that (and that includes a fair settlement).

I am sorry, I know it is difficult

You could also say, the reason our marriage is in tatters is clearly demonstrated by your threats to ruin my reputation, call my boss, friends, any other company I might work for, calling me a whore...telling dd I only want other mens willies....
Mention all the insults & threats
That way you also have your own paper trail.

@helplesshopeless

As others have said, a short reply along the lines of ‘none of these things are true, please stop sending me lies’ is needed here.

This.

Personally, I think that OP should not engage in any kind of confrontation with him. He clearly gets worse every time she tries to talk to him. I would just say for now, "lets talk about this at the counseling". Later once lawyers get involved it should be only through lawyers. He is not someone you can reason with and there is really no point. OP cannot explain anything to him because he does not want to understand.

I am really worried that he is unstable and can blow up at any time. His behavior is very erratic and unpredictable, I think that OP should get out of his way as much as possible.