Bastard bingo around the campfire

[helplesshopeless]

Hi everyone...creating thread number 2 (or at least, attempting to...!) Link to old thread here

If that link doesn't work, I'll be forever indebted to any of you more mumsnet savvy folks helping me out!

I'll come back in a bit to post properly, thank you all again for your help and support

That last comment is classic gaslighting. He'll play every trick in the book to try to regain control, but it loses its power once the recipient starts to see through it. You've come a long way @helplesshopeless, stay strong.

HH is clearly kind ,thoughtful, intelligent . Her work colleagues must have a sense of her true self ,Her husband going around saying vicious things about her is going to rebound badly for him .

I think it's time to put your blinkers on and keep your eye on your own path ahead, without allowing him to distract you from what you need to do, you need to close your ears to him and his pathetic threats.

You can have the upper hand if you want it. NOW is the time to take the opportunity.

He has seriously fucked up with this comment to your dd. Because now you are in full on protection mother mode, and who cares what he thinks of you or what he has to say? He no longer has a keg to stand on. You need to do what is right for your child now, and to not bother yourself trying to interpret his every word and deed and trying desperately to find the positive. He's fucked it up now, he has no chance.

Can you just get a flight home tomorrow for yourself and dd? It is not serving anyone for you to be together on this holiday.

Massive well done for sorting a separate room for you and DD.
That was the first step in drawing a line between the two of you.

I second documenting everything he says. Stick to emails as much as possible for you so you have an ongoing record.

You really do need real life support now - phone your parents - put it at the top of your list today.

xx

I am glad you were able to sort a separate room for you with DD. Make sure that you stay safe from him, that is my main piece of advice. I would not trust him as far as I can throw him.
If you split the time with DD, I would also make sure that you alternate times of day, so he cannot say, have all the mornings and not actually bring her back until 3pm. He will start with the micro-aggressions like bringing her back slightly late or doing things you want to do etc. The only thing I would say is make sure that you know where the passports and tickets are and if possible, lock yours and DD’s somewhere so he cannot leave you stuck wherever you are.

In terms of things being rough going forward, yes, but a) you will come out the other side and b) you will have people around you who know your side and a lawyer there acting for you. He cannot manipulate, or control the law. That is why he is using threats and manipulation to you at the moment - because he knows that has a chance of working as it has worked in the past, whereas you are both in an unknown when you start the divorce process. As perdito says, you have got integrity on your side and people know you are a kind, compassionate person. And if he calls you a whore to his colleagues, then it won’t really reflect well on him in terms of handling matters with dignity and respect. Are they your colleagues as well? Do you work together?

The final thing is make sure that you let your family and friends know what is happening and keep in contact with them throughout. Don’t feel ashamed or get too overwhelmed to keep that contact in place regularly.

I would strongly advise that you set your phone to record every time you have a "discussion" with him. You need to document his vile abuse. Make sure it is backed up to the cloud and change all your passwords.

Morning all. Thank you so much for your support and advice. I will be re-reading it and clinging to it in the coming weeks!

This morning he came to me and said he knows he was a dick last night, and he can't help himself as he is in so much pain that he is just lashing out at me. He said he knows his behaviour just makes things easier for me as it confirms I'm doing the right thing, which also makes it more painful for him. He was crying a lot and asked me to reconfirm I wanted a divorce, so he knew for sure. And I bloody wasn't sure!!! Why am I doubting things so much! I just really struggle when he looks so sad, the guilt is horrendous. However, I did manage to stay firm and say I do want to split.

So he's back now to being snarky and petulant, but only in a mild way that only I could pick up on.

@KatySun, we don't work together anymore, but he used to work where I still do and so has friends there who will more than happily jump on the rumour mill I'm sure!

I have a list on my phone of everything he said last night. When I'm doubting myself I just keep thinking that his behaviour last night was abuse, and his behaviour since everything came out was abuse, and he was abusive way before anything came out. He thinks I haven't given him a chance to change but even if I hadn't, I don't owe him a chance. Chanting all this to myself over and over!!

Meanwhile I still need him to put sun cream on my back 🙄

Just remember hh he is the one who created the situation that is now causing him to be sad. He's the one who has been behaving like an utter arse these past few days not you. You've got this, stay strong, if he does decide to be petty and nasty and start a rumour it will be all of a one week something and then fade away, so don't let it bother you as a threat. Hope you manage to have a good day.

Blimey!!!!!!!!!

First of all, WELL DONE -- for telling him it's over, and sticking to it (despite fluctuations; it's hard when you can't bear to see him upset).

When you see him upset, just remind yourself that a reptilian part of his brain, which he doesn't control, actually sees you as a worthless whore who deserves to die. 🤐

Hearing problems, eh. Hahahahaaahaaa, he doesn't even care how pathetic he sounds as long as he's putting the boot into you. Oh dear! That is really scraping the barrel.

He thinks I haven't given him a chance to change
What's become clear is that what he really wants is for you to give him a chance to carry on just as usual, but with a delusional gap during which you have another baby with him. Thank goodness that's not going to happen! Well done for escaping a very cruel fate. What happens next is going to be tough, but not as tough as spending another (potentially) 60-odd years with this child-man.

Everyone knows the gossips and idiots at work, and it sounds as though your STBXH (oh that is delightful to type, at last!!!) and his ex-colleagues will be recognised as such. Honestly, the worse the abuse he heaps on you, the more the folk who actually matter will take it with a pinch of salt. You mentioned that your boss was aware of problems, and helpful. Can you forewarn her that he is planning a hate campaign? (Not that you need to; it just might put your mind at rest.)

The willy scene is just bizarre and I hope it will give you something to hold onto, excuse the mental image!! 🤣 I think the weeks/months ahead are going to be so difficult that it is useful for you to have a quick reference point to remind you just how bad things are. He's given that to you on a plate. (Another weird mental image there, sorry)

I don't know where you are, but I live in Portugal so if you are in that country and find yourself stuck, PM me. We have plenty of room for you and DD!

Good luck with the rest of your holiday. If I were you, I'd be on the phone to my mum. 💗 You need her kindness now more than ever.

It is difficult. But he knows what he is doing. He knows what he is doing sufficiently to say things to you in person but not by texts so you don’t have a record. He knows that he is being a dick (his words), but does not stop himself - rather he blames you indirectly for causing his pain and his behaviour - which is nonsense really. Like I said a while back, he is lashing out verbally but his behaviour is no different to him beating you up and then claiming provocation. She made me do it.
Problem is a) provocation is not a defence and b) he was behaving like a dick before any of this happened, because he sees you as his emotional punchbag.

The not being sure is because I think in an ideal world you would not want a divorce, very few people want a divorce when there is a fully functioning marriage on the table. And I am sure you also feel sad that is not what you have had, or what you have got. You have spent a long time trying not to have a divorce. So that is where the not being sure comes from. And actually once you are out, you may still have a mixture of feelings including sadness that it was not different.

Problem is, you know now it was not different, and once you see where the abuse is, what is abuse, you cannot unsee it. You cannot go back to thinking you can fix it by doing x, y or z. You actually begin to chafe against doing x, y or z and to resist the abuse and that escalates matters, as you are seeing. And Quentin made an astute point further up thread, that your body knows, so even if you wanted to mentally override what you know, physically you cannot.

It is crap. But it would be more crap if there were no way out and we did not live in a time and place where divorce is accessible and possible, and there are legal systems in place to facilitate it.

One step at a time.

My ex and I had mutual colleagues and it did impact my professional life. Partly because I let it by feeling shame and anxiety in professional contexts with mutual colleagues and withdrawing and partly for practical reasons around childcare which were already apparent. If it won’t affect your own professional development, then basically it is gossip which will pass.

helplesshopeless I think you doubt your decision because you are a human being ,a very kind perceptive one at that . And because there's always an element of truth to things .

I imagine that it is true that he is in a lot of pain and that's why he behaves and says such awful things .I've been in a similar situation and done the same ( decades ago ) .

But neither of you can help eachother ,staying together is not an option .There is no connection between you on the level of intimacy and trust to make that workable .Despite you both wanting there to be ,things have changed between you .

I think all you can do is acknowledge his pain ,ask him to try and handle himself better .Tell him that you will both get through this and that you are aiming to do it an amicable way as possible .

I'm sure my post against goes against the grain of many on this thread but I'm not buying into this concept of he's an utter monster who is fully in control of himself and out to cause you maximum pain .Yes when he looses it and lashes out he is ,but that's not really who he normally is .

I don't think it's helpful for strangers to demonise him ,it is bound to make you want to defend him .

Having said all that ,the love is gone ,you are both now hurting eachother and it has to end .So that you can both move on to a calmer ,more equitable ,separate ,future .

and great posts above ,especially Alcemeg .Have only skim read KatySun.

There are such lovely people on this thread .Including you OP !

Just to throw in if I worked somewhere and someone started telling me vile stuff about their ex or soon to be, I would think badly of them and be resentful that they were trying to include me in something personal, painful and potentially bullying behaviour.

Wouldn't you rather wear a burkini than have him touch your back now? Seriously, a rash vest is a great option for the beach. Stay safe, OP.

He thinks I haven't given him a chance to change but even if I hadn't, I don't owe him a chance.
You've given him lots of chances to change during the time you've been posting here. Every time you stand up for what you want or need, he's emotionally or verbally abusive. It's not about chances. It's that he can't change. Neither of you deserve a life of banging your heads against a brick wall.

My ExH works at a previous workplace and my BFF still works there. Was really helpful as when an ex-colleague said "oh poor Derek" she snapped, "poor Derek nothing, you don't know the half of it, not going into details but he deserved it" Love that woman.

You need to start telling people you trust so you have people with your back. Your ex is probably gonna do the "she had an affair, but I did things wrong too" heartstring tugging narrative. So get your counter narrative in place.

For me, as long as the people I cared about most knew what hadhappened and had my back, I was able to dismiss other peoples opinions. Not as important as living my own truth (cheesy but there you go)

You have spent a long time trying not to have a divorce. So that is where the not being sure comes from. And actually once you are out, you may still have a mixture of feelings including sadness that it was not different.
So true.

Just wanted to add that you don’t have to start the process of a divorce if you are not ready. What’s important is you separate - baby steps at a time.

Because my STBXH is a devout Catholic l know if l pushed divorce now, it would back him into a corner and result in mayhem. For now l am ok we are living separately, running down the joint account, having our own wages paid in our own account and taking things very slowly.

I am aiming to get a legal financial settlement in place in the next couple of months - for me that will be the most complicated bit.

After that if l have to wait 2 years to apply for a no fault divorce then l will most likely do it online for minimal cost.

I realise things are more complicated for you and definitely get a mediator to cover access to DD but unless he files for divorce independently then you really don’t have to decide right now.

As for him mounting a smear campaign, this is another tactic to frighten and intimidate you. Of course he will be ‘sharing his side’ with anyone who will listen and there will be people who will have sympathy for him having listened to his tale of woe.

However, the people who you can rely on to support you, will reveal themselves very clearly in the next few weeks. You might be surprised at who ends up in your corner but also prepare yourself for some disappointments as friends really do reveal their true colours in this sort of situation. As with your sister, some may not quite have the emotional maturity to see his behaviour for what it is.

I think l have mentioned my oldest friend before (she was flaky around my birthday) l shared with her an email from STBXH that l felt was evidence of extreme minimising and gaslighting on his behalf. You know - what she completely fell for it and ended up crying after reading it. She saw it as ‘someone desperately clinging onto their marriage’ and felt really sorry for him.

She has listened for months while l have told her about the emotional abuse l have experienced, so for her to react like that felt a massive betrayal. I know now l need to distance myself from her which is devastating but l think she has never experienced covert controlling behaviour so simply doesn’t recognise it.

Please get some counselling in place for yourself. I did PM you details of mine - you really need people in your corner right now xx

I'm sorry about your friend what
Have had similar from someone I'm close to and it's really affected how I see our relationship. I feel like this person just hasn't taken on board what I told them, and it hurts but equally it tells me important information about how they see me

Get yourself the aerosol sun lotion, not great for the environment but no one has to rub it in.

This morning he came to me and said he knows he was a dick last night, and he can't help himself as he is in so much pain that he is just lashing out at me.
Gosh how predictable he is. So, he's implying it's your fault he behaves so appallingly. Because you are causing him pain. Great example for your daughter - if you're in pain you can behave as badly towards others as you like. The fact he lashes out at you via your daughter now is what is so chilling. I could never forgive that remark he made to her.

He said he knows his behaviour just makes things easier for me as it confirms I'm doing the right thing, he is right about that.

which also makes it more painful for him. He was crying a lot
more and more of this emotional incontinence for you to listen to, it must be so exhausting!

I am guessing @peridito that you mean me when you say some people are being unhelpful. Sorry that you feel that but some others on here have said that my advice to op was spot on. Who knows? Perhaps it does make op rush to defend him. I am trying to be helpful, but if @helplesshopeless would like me to stop posting, then of course I will. And apologies to you @helplesshopeless if my remarks are not helping you. I wish you all the best

Thanks Quentin

Trouble is STBXH tells such a good sob story, he is so convincing and plausible - l see straight through it but l’m aware others don’t- it is really hard.

Just like the posters on MN that decide to reinterpret the abuse and experiences of various OP's, people can unfortunately have good friends that think they know better than you, about what you have gone through.

Absolutely unbelievably arrogant and self important.

I cannot imagine wanting to remain in any meaningful contact with a so called friend that did that.

But as in serious illness people can really surprise you.

Being thankful you know who they really are, is the positive to emerge from such obvious disappointment.

I would be very wary of any colleague speaking badly of his wife.

I think the most effective narrative is "you have NO idea of what he has put her through for years, you have NO idea who he really is behind closed doors".

It doesn't give any specifics but it is definitely code for the type of nasty bastard he is.

I would wear a tee shirt and forgo the sun cream OP.

Honestly in terms of posters on here not agreeing on everything - I think that can be good to be honest. As a poster (I've previously posted about a relationship that was going down the pan) it was helpful to see a consensus and also the "alternatives", so I think all viewpoints are helpful unless it's outright telling the OP to shut up and get back in her box so I think all posters on here are valuable. (STAY OUT OF YOUR BOX OP!)

I'm so sorry that things have panned out @helplesshopeless in this painful way. I don't know how old your daughter is but clearly she's old enough to use sentences so she's old enough potentially to remember what he's said and wonder about it what an unforgiveable thing to say to a child.

When I'm doubting myself I just keep thinking that his behaviour last night was abuse, and his behaviour since everything came out was abuse, and he was abusive way before anything came out. He thinks I haven't given him a chance to change but even if I hadn't, I don't owe him a chance. Chanting all this to myself over and over!!
THIS was so good to read and makes me so proud of you HH and in awe of the strong woman you've rediscovered in yourself. You're right, everything you said is right. Be clear and keep up the chanting.

Are you going to stick out the holiday (it sounds horrible to be honest but it's your life and maybe you're able to have fun in between the horrible bits due to long training) or head home?

Hi everyone, I haven't been able to keep up with the thread, but try to catch up when I can, and I hope all you lovelies are ok

The thing about telling everyone what a terrible person you are, ha. DH said in our last argument that I put on a show on social media and pretend I'm this nice wonderful person, but that he knows what I'm really like, and is going to tell him mam when he sees her.

Christ.

Do it, mate.