Bastard bingo around the campfire

[helplesshopeless]

Hi everyone...creating thread number 2 (or at least, attempting to...!) Link to old thread here

If that link doesn't work, I'll be forever indebted to any of you more mumsnet savvy folks helping me out!

I'll come back in a bit to post properly, thank you all again for your help and support

AGREE TO NOTHING
You know you cant trust him further than you could throw him.
He proved to you yesterday that all his declarations io fairness after separation etc are utter bullshit, he goes through your phone & computer the minute your back is turned.
He LIES.
Do NOT agree to a single thing.
He is working on you already, before the wonderful holiday, before you have officially called it a day.
He is miles ahead of you.
The answer to any question on separation of assets is
I'll think about it
We can discuss this in mediation
I will need to get advice
Or, in extremis, I will speak to my solicitor.
Although I wouldn't let on about your sol. Just yet, He will be livid & make your life hell.

If you ignore the noise around your relationship, what he's actually said/doing suggests he is pretty ready to go with progressing the split:
Divorce petition ready to be sent ( but equally he's learned what the process is!)
Grounds for divorce discussed
He's thought about asset splitting
He's thought about how he wants your DD to split her time between you (and he's taking you to court over it )

I think you would do well to get legal representation sooner rather than later OP. And by that I mean today or tomorrow, ready to go when you get back from holiday (please really think about this.... again....sorry...) He's not going to play nice and you won't be able to land things amicably between you. A man who won't let you go & sit on a park bench to think isn't going to be able to nicely divide marital assets in a fair and reasonable way.

And yes - have you spoken to your mum yet?? I'm worried you're about to get blindsided by him and you will have to deal with the pain of that simultaneously with the pain of telling people. If you can deal with the difficult conversation with your parents first, in what is now relative calm at home, I think you will thank yourself later.

Great advice cava

Just to echo what @KatySun says about these relationships being more complicated than just "he's a complete monster" 😣
OP is not being dim-witted for not instantly behaving overnight as though her husband of many years, and father of her DD, is entirely worthless. That's not how emotional attachments work in real life. Disengaging is an extraordinarily complex and painful process.

...and what @QuentinBunbury says about proper advice. Fingers crossed you can get her shit-hot mediator on the case.

...and what @Cavagirl says about talking to your mum, OP! Please talk to her. Apart from needing her emotional support IRL, you might suddenly find yourself needing somewhere to go,when you least expect it.

It all sounds ghastly, but things are moving in the right direction.

HH mentioned she has already spoken to a lawyer at some time previously.

I agree you need to go & sit on your bench & talk to your Mum.
Lock down your computer before going out

@Mix56

AGREE TO NOTHING You know you cant trust him further than you could throw him. He proved to you yesterday that all his declarations io fairness after separation etc are utter bullshit, he goes through your phone & computer the minute your back is turned. He LIES. Do NOT agree to a single thing. He is working on you already, before the wonderful holiday, before you have officially called it a day. He is miles ahead of you. The answer to any question on separation of assets is I'll think about it We can discuss this in mediation I will need to get advice Or, in extremis, I will speak to my solicitor. Although I wouldn't let on about your sol. Just yet, He will be livid & make your life hell.

This is what I mean.

OP, you speak of decency but he is anything but.

He is miles ahead of you and having treated you badly for years is now determined to screw you in any separation.

For goodness sake helo yourself.

Agree to NOTHING.

Tell your parents the FULL truth of how he has treated you for YEARS.

Go back to your lawyer.
Protect yourself and your assets for your daughter.

Stop thinking he is decent.
He is ANYTHING BUT decent.

I thought this was really suitable for this thread.

That’s very apt loveyourself2020. - one of the hardest things for me to come to terms with is being made into a ‘baddie’ in his and his mother’s eyes, basically because l called time.

I am so sorry to hear the painful limbo you are still in. I’m glad you can take advantage of one of your sons being away. Would it work to share a room with your daughter at all? I remember my Mum sleeping in with me when her and Dad had had a bust up. I must admit l would rather put a tent up in the garden rather than share a bedroom with a stinky, snorey, farty STBXH!

Dear HH - you must now be on countdown to your holiday. As expressed before l do have serious misgivings about you going but l think it is triggering my own trauma. Towards the end of my relationship I actually struggled to share a car journey with him so l am probably coming from that place.

You said that you felt that as you were both spending 24/7 together anyway it wouldn’t feel that much different and l get your point. But you will be in a foreign country with a different language, police etc. Please keep your and DD’s passport/tickets very safe. He has had no compunction about riffling through your stuff. Don’t let him have control of any valuable documents.

He really could have an extreme, extreme dickhead moment and try to leave you stranded and take himself and DD back home alone. I know l am sounding like the voice of doom but domestic abuse can and does ramp up and men who feel like they are losing control start behaving in ways that you could never have predicted. Its so easy to say that ‘he would never do that’ but in truth you absolutely cannot guarantee decent behaviour from him on this holiday so you must be prepared for bursts of anger and controlling behaviour from him because this is how he is.

However l do wish you well on your trip, enjoy the change of scenery and spending time with DD and may you return with more strength, clarity and resolve as to the way ahead xx

ARE you going abroad, OP? For some reason I was thinking of SW England or Wales/Scotland. I picture emphatically "happy" moments, when your husband just lets it all hang in the air what you're "giving up," to let it sink in what a total thoughtless heartless fickle empty-headed bitch you must be. And perhaps some stropping now and then, and/or some tears.

I really hope the bucket-and-spade aspects of the holiday outweigh the tragic-movie-ending ones, and that if it all gets too much you can run away.

No, do not agree to anything. The men who try and get a settlement 'amicably as we're both grown ups and it will be cheaper' almost always have things hidden.

You need it done through mediation at best, solicitor and court at worst. Would recommend asking for his experian report as well as their pension report to see how many and how much they are worth.

He Will record you on his phone and try and hold you to it.

I hope your DD enjoys her holiday, I hope you just backs off & allows you to enjoy it too, although the chances of it are next to zero.
Do not have sex, Do not allow him to snoop on your phone, Make sure you go for some good walks alone ! when he is lying on the bed, with his holiday rumpy expectations & DD is having a siesta, tell him you are going to call your Mum. Then do it.

There was a lovely OP on here who eventually left a dick of a husband, his third marriage, she had twins.

He wanted an amicable separation.

She had been nagged about money yet discovered he had hidden a huge amount and put money into his pension.

She found it all, apparently he forgot about it.
🙄

Someone you are forcing a separation upon who has treated you appallingly for years is NOT someone I would trust to be fair and equitable financially.

@InkieNecro No, do not agree to anything. The men who try and get a settlement 'amicably as we're both grown ups and it will be cheaper' almost always have things hidden.

So true. My STBX insisted we DIY our agreement, and I strongly believe that he is hiding his investments. But I have not way of finding out unless I take it to the court for which I do not really have money.

Mine did DIY too but in his case I think he was ashamed of debts he'd run up. So I didn't press for details but I did ensure I got my fair share.
Naturally he then made out to his family I'd dicked him over as I had a solicitor

My ex-DH and I split everything 50:50 without involving a solicitor.

That side of things was pretty straightforward. I think he was scared I had gone completely mad and was going to stitch him up! but we were both scrupulously fair.

I am in Scotland so the financial split is 50:50 whereupon it transpired that ex’s version of events during our marriage and thereafter (that he was not saving any money in a separate account) proved to be untrue. But that only became apparent when things went downhill and my solicitor asked for an equal split of assets in the court action, and he didn’t really have a choice but to disclose. He would have lied if we had relied on a private agreement.

Hi everyone. Such a busy day here finishing off work and packing etc!

Thank you for all of your comments re the financial arrangements. I totally get where you're all coming from. If he bought my share of the house and assets, we'd work out 50% of all assets and cash and then he'd remortgage to get that amount to give me as settlement. I know he would be fair in that respect (albeit through gritted teeth) and we'd obviously get a solicitor to formalise the arrangements etc. I'd have enough to buy a new house with an affordable mortgage i think.

My only concern is how it would impact on arrangements for my daughter. Half of me thinks it would be nice for her to have less upheaval (one new home to adjust to rather than two) but the other half of me worried that she'll see it as 'mummy leaving home.' Plus concerns over how he could use it push for more nights in a row than I think would work for her at he moment.

We've had a rough few days. After seeing all of your responses to me yesterday I said to him that I was open to all reasonable suggestions but that we should both get advice and then discuss it with a mediator, especially where our daughter is concerned. He point blank refused to agree to us having financial advice as he insists I will be trying find a lawyer to 'fleece him'. He's very angry that I'll be getting half of all assets when he brought a lot more into the marriage than me (which he did) and he wants to just get the finance side sorted ASAP without delays. I think he thinks I want to be awkward and/or stop him keeping the house, which isn't the case. Things escalated on weds and Thursday night but everything is fine today.

We had yet another discussion last night (despite my best attempts to shut it down) where he insisted he would take me to court re our daughter, and he would spend all our money on court fees if he had to. 

In the meantime I have contacted a few mediators (including yours @QuentinBunbury!) and have emailed the solicitor I spoke to previously to get her thoughts on the house situation.

In terms of where we are up to now, I think we're very close to ending things but just want to focus on having a nice holiday. He did ask me if it was over and I wasn't able to say it I basically said that on Wednesday night I was absolutely sure it was over, and I'm still pretty much there, but want to focus on the holiday now.

He's been really nice and fun today and I'm full of doubt again over whether I am doing the right thing. I just feel like I'm overreacting to everything and not giving us a chance to properly heal from the past (although I keep telling myself that I know he can't make me properly happy long term). So I am bracing myself for more of that over the course of the holiday! @loveyourself2020 that quote you shared about 'the wrong man' is extremely apt, thank you!!

Re the holiday itself, yes, @alcemeg, we are going abroad. I appreciate all of the concerns about it going wrong but I know he won't do anything overly unpleasant while we're away as he's focussed on our daughter having a lovely time. Plus he doesn't plan in advance to behave unpleasantly, so I don't think he'll do something intentionally that involves leaving me high and dry. The worst I'll get will be some nasty words (potentially extremely nasty!) if we have an argument. It's strange but I do still enjoy his company when he's on form (which he is a lot more at the moment than he used to be), so I'm not feeling worried about being in close proximity to him as I know we can all have fun together (again, as long as he's on form!)

All in all, I'm looking forward to the holiday, apprehensive on the next steps on return!!

Thank you all for your ongoing support and advice. You are all my life raft!

He point blank refused to agree to us having financial advice as he insists I will be trying find a lawyer to 'fleece him'. He's very angry that I'll be getting half of all assets when he brought a lot more into the marriage than me
A mediator isn't "financial advice"
I'd let the mediator speak to him about it TBH. The fact he's worrying you will fleece him shows he knows he's not making a fair offer.

Pick a line and stick to it. I did used to use "we can discuss all this in mediation" tbh

You are right that you should both get independent legal advice and then discuss it with a mediator. That way you both know where you stand. He does not want you to have legal advice because then he cannot bully or manipulate you into what he wants.

I also agree that him staying in the marital home may make it easier for him to argue that DD staying more with him is the status quo for her, and that is harder for you to argue against. I would go carefully with that one and see what is possible financially.

If he is concerned that a fair settlement is ‘fleecing him’, then he 100% is not going to spend every penny he has on taking you to court, though. He is not going to do that; the ‘fleecing him’ comment suggests a man who wants to hold on to his money. He will soon realise how quickly legal bills rack up. But it is an easy way to try to discomfort you. What exactly does he think will happen with child arrangements which will necessitate court? Is he still threatening to ask for full residency rather than shared care?

The risk of the holiday seems to me mainly to be that he will try to wear you down on the terms of settlement. This is a man who does not like uncertainty and separation and the divorce process brings uncertainty.

Oh HH what a hard few days, I do hope you’re feeling ok? How’s your mood?

I have the sense you’ve felt compelled to agree in principle to him buying you out of the house. Please remember you don’t know how your financial situation will be post divorce or in a couple of years once your daughter is at school. You might get an amazing new job or marry a millionaire etc etc. Don’t let him tell you you can’t afford it. I know it’s so hard but please just stop countenancing talking to him about it at all.

@helplesshopeless

and we'd obviously get a solicitor to formalise the arrangements etc

Get a solicitor EACH! Very important he doesn't talk you into sharing a solicitor to 'formalise' arrangements you've 'agreed' together. Because neither of you has the first clue about what you are doing with this, no one does. You need to make sure you have a solicitor who is advising and acting for you.

@helplesshopeless

He point blank refused to agree to us having financial advice as he insists I will be trying find a lawyer to 'fleece him'.

He does not need to 'agree' to you taking financial or any other sort of advice!

And you really, really must. Independent of him.
Completely.

He is trying to hurry the financial stuff - just ask yourself why?

@FantasticButtocks I know. I think HH hasn’t quite got to the point of remembering he’s not her boss or her overlord or the decision maker. Least of ALL someone who has the right to dictate how SHE divorces HIM. One day I hope she’ll look back and laugh at the dark bloody humour of that.

OP,

You need independent financial advice.
He doesn't get to decide that.

You do not want to allow him to bully you into an agreement that is not in your daughter's best interests.

He is 100% about what will be best for him.

He is miles ahead of you in this.

If you don't wake up you will be screwed over by him.

HH, please do get proper advice. The poster @billy1966 referred to is @StuckInPollyannaMode

She is a lovely person just like you. Trusting and at the start, questioning herself about wanting to end her marriage. Anyway she later found out her husband had been hiding over half a million of pension funds. This is her post after that:
You know what? I'm incredibly hurt that he has let us struggle on for so long, letting me worry about money and finances and retirement, and hasn't said anything. I even talked to him last year about putting half of my salary into a pension as I was so concerned about pension provision. He said nothing at all. He's been mean and difficult about money and it's affected me and the kids (I don't mean to sound like a spendthrift, I just mean he's always made a big deal about spending money and contributing to holidays etc and I"ve scrimped and saved to afford days out and holidays and all this time he's had the ability to remove some of the worry

Her threads sound so similar to yours. He also refused to accept the marriage was over "He says no. A flat no, it’s not happening. He can’t do it", was histrionic and sulky, used the kids as emotional blackmail. She tells him she doesn't love him, his reaction is "he thinks that if he keeps telling me it will all be ok that he’ll get his own way".

She says at the start that despite everything "he's a good man and a good father". And then over 5 threads he does everything to prove he is neither. At the start, like you, she'd say "he'd never do X, never do Y" when other posters warned her. And then he does pretty much all of it.

Her last thread now says:
"I am fucking DONE. Done with this. I need to stand up and fight for the girls. He is NEVER going to do what he needs to for them. ". She has come a long way in a year or so, as I am sure you will too.

I do hope the holiday goes well. Like other posters I thought going abroad has risks so I hope we are all proved wrong and you have a nice time.