Page 24 | Bastard bingo around the campfire

helplesshopeless · 2021-06-09T09:51:27+00:00

Hi everyone...creating thread number 2 (or at least, attempting to...!) Link to old thread [[https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4211900-does-love-come-back-what-do-i-do here]] If that link doesn't work, I'll be forever indebted to any of you more mumsnet savvy folks helping me out! [grin] I'll come back in a bit to post properly, thank you all again for your help and support [flowers]

Original poster

helplesshopeless · 30/06/2021 18:09

I have calmed down now I think I was the more angry one out of the two of us on this occasion!!

If anything this has been the final nail in the coffin for me. I'm still keen to go on holiday because our daughter is so excited about it, and if I pull out it's another thing my husband will use to guilt me. I still think we're capable of having a nice time. But that's it then as far as I'm concerned.

OP posts:

Alcemeg · 30/06/2021 18:14

@helplesshopeless

I have calmed down now

I think I was the more angry one out of the two of us on this occasion!!

If anything this has been the final nail in the coffin for me. I'm still keen to go on holiday because our daughter is so excited about it, and if I pull out it's another thing my husband will use to guilt me. I still think we're capable of having a nice time. But that's it then as far as I'm concerned.

So glad you found your clarity!

You sound so level-headed about it all now. Brilliant.

YellowBeryl · 30/06/2021 18:15

I have lurked and admired the way you have approached this whole sorry situation. You have bent over backwards to understand and accommodate your 'D' H feelings but he has trampled over your boundaries and his temper is still simmering way with (almost) daily eruptions . You have recognised your feelings have gone and are unlikely to return; they definitely won't return as long as he behaves this way.
The holiday is tricky, I am not sure I could go through with it. I get the impression you are going abroad, if so would you feel safe alone with him in a foreign country where you have nowhere to run? Is there a chance he will know he has you trapped and really let rip? Only you can know.
Whatever you decide to do I think you need to accept that the marriage is done and you need your ducks lined up. Good Luck 💐

KatySun · 30/06/2021 18:30

I am afraid I think you will have to work quite hard to keep discussion about a potential separation out of your holiday, to be honest, whether that is him trying to emotionally manipulate or guilt you into staying or angry, threatening discussions about 50/50 custody.

The main thing to remember is that child arrangements are about the best interests of the child. It is important for her to have a relationship with both parents. However, you cannot rush to decide what that is in the heat of the moment - have some kind of phrase ready which pushes it out of your holiday space. Something like ‘of course we will both act on our DD’s best interests and I am quite happy to discuss with you in mediation what that looks like’.

I would be wary of him returning himself before you- he has more time then to go through stuff and get himself to a lawyer.

Peach1886 · 30/06/2021 19:00

I am so glad to see you get angry dear HH...and to hear you state so clearly that you've had enough.

Get out of there as soon as it suits you xx

FoxgloveSummers · 30/06/2021 19:16

Good for you. I’m sorry he’s invading your privacy and still not respecting you.

Have you started your list?

FantasticButtocks · 30/06/2021 19:28

@helplesshopeless

I have calmed down now

I think I was the more angry one out of the two of us on this occasion!!

If anything this has been the final nail in the coffin for me. I'm still keen to go on holiday because our daughter is so excited about it, and if I pull out it's another thing my husband will use to guilt me. I still think we're capable of having a nice time. But that's it then as far as I'm concerned.

Thank goodness!!!! Finding your own voice at last, bravo!!

He cannot change who he is. His threats are showing him up to prioritise his own needs/wants against the needs of dd's in the future. Because it's more important to him to win than to really give thought to what is best for her.

As he has made so many threats of this nature, you need to get started with a good solicitor as soon as possible. Think of it in terms of getting what is best for dd and you can't go wrong.

FantasticButtocks · 30/06/2021 19:32

Also, could we please stop referring to him as Derek? I know it's a way to trivialise and make fun of him, to finish his importance maybe, but it just feels too... sort of humorous somehow. The name Derek conjours up some old bloke with a shed and set in his ways, to me anyway, sort of a bit harmless. He is anything but funny, or harmless.

Perhaps now anyway he is STBXH!

FantasticButtocks · 30/06/2021 19:33

"to finish DIMINISH his importance "

Oops

Alcemeg · 30/06/2021 20:11

@FantasticButtocks

Also, could we please stop referring to him as Derek? I know it's a way to trivialise and make fun of him, to finish his importance maybe, but it just feels too... sort of humorous somehow. The name Derek conjours up some old bloke with a shed and set in his ways, to me anyway, sort of a bit harmless. He is anything but funny, or harmless.

Perhaps now anyway he is STBXH!

But he is pathetic, in the truest sense of the word.

I've always liked humour as a way of conquering demons instead of cowering in fear of them.

I just feel a bit apologetic towards all the nice men in the world who are unfortunate enough to be called Derek 😁

QuentinBunbury · 30/06/2021 20:21

You'd think I'd have learnt and would start to hide things better!
You shouldn't have to hide things in your own house.
Please please factory reset your phone, change all your passwords. Be careful. Men like this have no regard for privacy, he's basically told you he thinks you've given up the right to privacy. And it's a huge violation to find your extreme dickhead has been reading personal messages.
I also don't think you should go away with him. Go with DD on your own, he can make alternative living arrangements while you are away.
Also, get on the front foot and find a mediator to help with negotiating arrangements. Mine was worth her weight in gold.

QuentinBunbury · 30/06/2021 20:22

I'm feeling a bit triggered because this is similar to how my marriage finally ended - I was forced to leave because of the total lack of privacy and I got scared as the control ramped up. Please be careful.

Original poster

helplesshopeless · 30/06/2021 20:24

@QuentinBunbury would it be possible for you to send me the details of your mediator privately? I do have a contact from the lawyer that I've received advice from but it sounds like yours was a good'un!

OP posts:

SpringCrocus · 30/06/2021 20:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

billy1966 · 30/06/2021 23:11

OP,
Kindly meant but you keep writing about him being decent or fundamentally good.

He's not.
And you clearly don't know what decency is if you feel he is a reference point for it.

@QuentinBunbury is correct.
He rifled through your your stuff and disrespects your boundaries at every single turn.

I really mean it kindly, but neither of you haveca relationship bar above the ground.

This really isn't how decent people behave.

He is a really bad man that doesn't have a shred of character nor decency to him.

Your bar is so low, for sooooooo long that you mostly can't see it.

A glimmer early because he rifled through your stuff🤷🏻‍♀️

He is utter scum, always has been, always will be.

Your child deserves better than this charade, so do you, if you could just see it.

SpringCrocus · 01/07/2021 00:43

^^^^^
What @billy1966 said.

KatySun · 01/07/2021 07:50

I really don’t think it is fair to say that helplesshopeless does not know what decency is or has a low bar, because like most of us in abusive relationships, she will have met and married someone who was showing their best self and none of this happened overnight.

The whole point of the cycle of abuse is that there are good bits, the good bits which remind you of that person’s best self and the promise of the relationship. Plus trying to unpick the dissonance of having been brought up with certain ideals of marriage and family, which are also strongly held by society, and the actuality of your own situation which does not meet those, and feeling like this is somehow your fault. Plus concern about the children and the impact of the separation and how contact will work (particularly if you have genuine concerns about their well-being with the other side). All of this takes time to work through.

It is not as simple as realising you have a bad one and walking away, especially when children are involved. For me it was precisely what is happening here, recognising a pattern of behaviour and then when I had done that, a series of incidents which were progressively worse which made me realise I had not called it wrong (although to be honest, it was only what happened after we separated which made me realise I really had not called it wrong).

I too did the last holiday knowing in my heart that I would be out of there. It still took me a few weeks after that. helplesshopeless is working through this in her own way in her own time. It is not particularly a situation anyone wants to be in. I remember a friend saying afterwards ‘but why did you not just leave?’. If it was that simple and obvious, abuse would not work, and of course her remark missed two fundamental points - 1. I had in the end left and 2. the real question was well, why on Earth did he behave like that?

Original poster

helplesshopeless · 01/07/2021 08:40

Hi everyone, sorry to drop a random qu, but he is talking about buying me out of our house as he could afford to keep it (I def couldn't). Is this something that is safe to discuss as an option before I get legal advice or would I somehow be disadvantaging myself in agreeing to that (esp in terms of arrangements with our daughter)?

OP posts:

KatySun · 01/07/2021 08:50

I personally would not agree to anything until you have taken legal advice. I think some kind of phrase like ‘we should discuss this formally in mediation, where of course I will be open to constructive suggestions’ is best. Followed up by ‘I am really not prepared to spend our holiday discussing this’ - because that is what could happen, if you don’t hear it off.

QuentinBunbury · 01/07/2021 08:56

Yeah what katy said. There's a lot of stuff I wish I'd done differently in hindsight and one of those is trying to make both of us happy in settling everything. He was true to form and exploited me to get what he wanted.

Do you know how much pensions etc are worth? What savings you have? If he buys you out, can you afford another place?

Courts want it equitable, not equal, e.g. you both have to be able to afford a similar standard of house for DD.

QuentinBunbury · 01/07/2021 08:57

That's where the mediator really helps as she acted in both our interests and none, so could say what looked reasonable anf what the courts wouldn't accept

Peach1886 · 01/07/2021 09:11

In your understandable relief that discussions are moving on @helplesshopeless, remember that his priority is, and has always been, himself. That will not change now and is likely to get worse, so don't under any circumstances discuss or agree to anything until you've spoken to your SHL.

FantasticButtocks · 01/07/2021 09:25

@helplesshopeless

he is talking about buying me out of our house as he could afford to keep it (I def couldn't).

Oh for goodness sake! Stop discussing this with him right now, do not let him take charge.

Neither of you will actually know what 'he can afford' and what you can afford until it's sorted by proper legal channels.

Is this something that is safe to discuss as an option before I get legal advice

No, of course not!! Do not get into any discussions like this with him, none of them will be safe.

or would I somehow be disadvantaging myself in agreeing to that (esp in terms of arrangements with our daughter)?

It's already DD's home, then would be solely his home, you the one leaving.... mm. You can just imagine the narrative... Well she had an affair so she's the one who has to leave...dd best off with me in the familiar surroundings she's grown up with, minimal disruption...

Shelve every discussion about this UNTIL YOU HAVE TAKEN ADVICE FROM A GOOD SOLICITOR.

And tell your family.

FoxgloveSummers · 01/07/2021 09:37

@helplesshopeless

Hi everyone, sorry to drop a random qu, but he is talking about buying me out of our house as he could afford to keep it (I def couldn't). Is this something that is safe to discuss as an option before I get legal advice or would I somehow be disadvantaging myself in agreeing to that (esp in terms of arrangements with our daughter)?

I know this seems like a productive chat but actually I believe he’s still just trying to fill you with horror at the thought of all his wealth and house and you somewhere in a poky flat etc.

Just to remind you that you are married and so you will be splitting your assets, according to what lawyers advise. You may be able to afford the house. Sometimes the resident parent gets to stay in the house until the child is a certain age etc - this is all unknown to you yet. Please lovely HH do not let him browbeat you with this. And don’t agree to anything.

What kind of fobbing off phrase would you be comfortable using? Eg “I think that’s something we’ll have to get into properly later”?

QuentinBunbury · 01/07/2021 09:42

It's already DD's home, then would be solely his home, you the one leaving.... mm. You can just imagine the narrative... Well she had an affair so she's the one who has to leave...
Exactly what happened to me. My kids are older so he also served them a nice side order of "mummy left to be happy and I don't know why our life didn't make her happy when we were all happy" and crying....I still have to deal with the fallout of that now. I basically handed him the ammo to make it look like he'd been wronged, because 1) I felt guilty and 2) I was scared to stay there.