Husband said he will divorce me if I get Botox

[0zzyfan]

....... and I got it on Thursday .....

I have wanted it for some time, and love it!
The effects haven’t fully started yet, but I mentioned a friend (who was with me) had it and he hit the roof!

Said point blank - if I fucked with my face he would leave me over it. No questions asked.

The only question I have is - should I pack his bags for him and tell him? Or just ignore him and continue making myself happy?!

@Veterinari

"I don't have children. Am I 'allowed' to make decisions about my own body?"

Of course you're allowed to. Your body, your decisions.

But it's naive to pretend it's consequence-free in terms of contributing to a wider cultural issue which makes it difficult for women to age normally,

I'm 40 and when I look at people I follow on instagram who I admire, so many have botox that it's difficult to tell what a woman my age is meant to look like anymore.

E.g Sali Hughes looks fabulous and natural and looks my age, but actually she's five years older and uses botox.

So sure, you do you, but you are undeniably making it harder for other women. That's just the reality. I may well yet cave to botox, I hope not but if I do I'll know that while I've made ageing easier for me personally, I've also become part of the problem.

@KiwiDramaQueen

Sali Hughes looks like a 45 year old who's had botox. Her Botox brows and scarily smooth forehead are a dead giveaway.

Most people on here don't seem to know what botox is! It isn't supposed to dramatically change your appearance and unlike fillers it can only be done by healthcare professionals

I've had it in the middle of my forehead at the top of my nose as when i frowned/squinted i had deep wrinkles that you could then see from my creased make up and it just meant when i squinted in future, that area didn't crinkle anymore.

I didn't look any different and no one knew I had it, just like a lot of people don't know when i've had my hair cut but that doesn't mean I don't look better for it!

Yes, a few people have gone to far but for every courtney cox there are thousands of people that look great and you have no idea that they've had it!

I think "your body, your choice" is extra complicated when it comes to "your face, your choice".

We use our faces to express ourselves. Our feelings, our emotions, our individual 'me-ness'. So of course someone who loves us is invested in how our face moves and emotes.

So I do think cosmetic surgery/treatments to the face are something that will affect our life partner much more than any other kind of cosmetic surgery. Sure, our partner might 'love' our boobs and our bottom. But our faces? Our smiles and frowns and the face we make when we're perplexed or giggling at something silly or even sneezing? All those lines which represent the live we've lived together? And surely botox can only work if it gradually prevents the face from being able to fully express the subtle, finely delineated range of emotions as freely as without it?

Maybe I'm being overly romantic and I'm not saying a woman's husband gets to choose what she does, or that it's ok to threaten to divorce as an ultimatum. And plenty of bastard men end up leaving their wives precisely because they don't like the lines that show their history, or the stomach pouch from giving birth to his children, etc etc

But the idea that a husband shouldn't be deeply invested in the expressions and history written in the lines of his wife's face ... That seems rather sad.

@cunningplan101

People can tell.
Your face moves in a completely different way now, of course people can tell.
It's just not something they would comment on.

But if it makes you feel better then good for you.

I’m sure he is more than capable of packing his own bags.

[quote Yesyoucantell]**@cunningplan101

People can tell.
Your face moves in a completely different way now, of course people can tell.
It's just not something they would comment on.

But if it makes you feel better then good for you.[/quote]
Oops, that was meant for

@Famousinlove

Sorry @cunningplan101

If DP decided to get a tattoo, I would absolutely hate it, I would be extremely disappointed, and I would think less of him but I would reluctantly accept that it’s his body and his choice.

If I chose to get Botox, he would be extremely disappointed in me, he would call me a hypocrite, and he would be absolutely right. But he would accept that it’s my body and my choice. That’s what you do when someone you love does something you dislike.

@jannyapple

My god ... what a nasty bunch of opinionated snobby judgmental stuck up bunch we have here If someone wants fake tan blond hair then good luck to her / him I'm 54 and dye my hair pastel pink I work with young people and every day someone will say they love my hair They are usually under 18 -severely disadvantaged - been through enough shit to last them a lifetime - the kind you don't want your son/ daughter to bring home Not once as any of them ever said .. oh that bit of Botox you have in one place every 9 months , combined with your pink hair and your 35 year old tattoo makes you less worthy and so I'm going to make you feel like shit by judging you for it Just be yourself folks .. do what you want to do as long as you accept the consequences and the bigger picture I'm regularly shocked at the snobbery here , this bid a classic example

I have to say I agree!

[quote KiwiDramaQueen]@Veterinari

"I don't have children. Am I 'allowed' to make decisions about my own body?"

Of course you're allowed to. Your body, your decisions.

But it's naive to pretend it's consequence-free in terms of contributing to a wider cultural issue which makes it difficult for women to age normally,

I'm 40 and when I look at people I follow on instagram who I admire, so many have botox that it's difficult to tell what a woman my age is meant to look like anymore.

E.g Sali Hughes looks fabulous and natural and looks my age, but actually she's five years older and uses botox.

So sure, you do you, but you are undeniably making it harder for other women. That's just the reality. I may well yet cave to botox, I hope not but if I do I'll know that while I've made ageing easier for me personally, I've also become part of the problem.[/quote]
But what is the 'problem' I'm contributing to exactly @KiwiDramaQueen ?
Is wearing makeup and using sunscreen also contributing to the problem? I religiously use spf and retinol and primarily because of this I look much younger than my age - do you judge me for that too?

It certainly has a much more significant impact on my appearance than Botox (which I use to correct muscle imbalances)

I find women that judge other women for their own choices bizarre. If you feel like you need to live your life according to social media ideals then I suggest you work on your own self esteem rather than attacking strangers in the internet for the choices they make.

I don't agree with your husband's approach OP, but fake tan + blonde hair pretty much always to cheap & tacky. I have no idea why anyone would think this combo looks good. Very few naturally blonde people have tanned skin. Just look at Scandinavians. There are exceptions but blonde hair is usually naturally paired with very pale skin.

Wow. I just love being described as cheap and tacky by judgemental strangers on the internet 🙄

[quote Yesyoucantell]@cunningplan101

People can tell.
Your face moves in a completely different way now, of course people can tell.
It's just not something they would comment on.

But if it makes you feel better then good for you.[/quote]
It is something people in my life would comment on, i have a very opinionated family and work colleagues, who noticed and asked about my lip filler when i got it.

Wow. I just love being described as cheap and tacky by judgemental strangers on the internet

Well people you know are hardly going to say it to your face are they, no matter what they are actually thinking?

asked about my lip filler when i got it.

Well polite pretence is pretty hard to perform when it comes to lip fillers, they really are very, very obvious and almost always ott.

@Veterinari you're right that it's difficult to know where to draw the line between various interventions. I hope I'm not judging but think it's more about feeling disappointed and sad - which I think any looking at the pressure on women not to age today is within her rights to feel.

I guess I personally would class a style choice (haircut etc) as different from something that is aimed at turning back the signs of age. Getting botox to correct a particular medical problem is different too, as you've referred to. Sunscreen is to prevent skin cancer!

Makeup is a tricky one, we all wear it whatever our age, so it's not primarily anti ageing. Although do I wish that it was a societal norm for women to wear little to no makeup as it is for men, yeah I think that would be much better for all of us!

Sorry I probably shouldn't have directed my comment at you specifically as that makes it seem quite targeted, would have been better to just share my thoughts generally.

Totally agree my self esteem could use some work, it's an uphill battle though when surrounded by constant messaging that our natural aging appearance is not good enough and fewer and fewer representations of women who haven't given nature a significant helping hand, surely anyone can understand that.

@Yesyoucantell

asked about my lip filler when i got it.

Well polite pretence is pretty hard to perform when it comes to lip fillers, they really are very, very obvious and almost always ott.

With respect, internet stranger, you don't know my family, they aren't polite in the slightest and don't keep up any sort of pretence

@bagelbaby

Keep going. Mine has no idea.

Sure he doesn’t 🙄

My mum used to think the same - that her husband and the rest of us had no idea. Of course we all knew - it obviously affects how you look, otherwise why do it?

If your husband doesn’t notice changes to your face you have bigger problems.

But what is the 'problem' I'm contributing to exactly @KiwiDramaQueen* ?
Is wearing makeup and using sunscreen also contributing to the problem? I religiously use spf and retinol and primarily because of this I look much younger than my age - do you judge me for that too?*

The problem that women have an insane amount of pressure to not show signs of ageing and to look a way in which society deems attractive and acceptable.
Sunscreen protects you from skin cancer and men are equally expected to use this so it isn’t a product aimed at women and used solely for vanity reasons.
Make up is part of the problem, yes, because it is marketed as though women need it and need to look a certain way.

It’s not about judging other women (I wear makeup myself). It’s about acknowledging that it is all part of the way women are controlled and conditioned to think they must look a certain way to be accepted by society and to have any value. I accept my part in that because I perpetuate the idea that women need make up.
I then draw my own lines on where I’m willing to let that expectation and pressure influence my own choices- I have facials and wear makeup but will not have fillers, surgery, Botox etc. My personal line is drawn at where I would be happy for a teenage daughter to compare themselves. I’d be happy to have a teenage daughter get facials and wear make up. I wouldn’t be happy with a teenage daughter wanting fillers etc.

So, of course, make your own decisions and do what you want. Just be aware of the impact it had on wider society.

Ah the nonsensical gem of 'you can always tell'. Think about it for a moment- this doesnt make any sense. You can only tell if you can tell. If you can't tell, then you can't tell that you can't tell. You might see 3 women a week with really obvious fillers and botox. But you might also be seeing 20 women a week with natural ones and you would never know that is what you were looking at.

OP you should be able to do what you want with your looks and life. Your H can express how he feels and you should be able to discuss opposing views. But saying he will leave you is extreme, manipulative, insulting and devaluing to you and your relationship. He should love you as a person, not depending on how you look and if you obey his demands. He should respect your decisions even if he doesnt agree with them.

I don't think it's worth the argument, he won't even notice.

For all the pps worried that his concerns are the patriarchy, perpetuating unfair societal expectations, etc... Have you ever met a man? I can tell you with 100% certainly this was not his concern, he won't have thought deeply about it in any way.

[quote KiwiDramaQueen]@Veterinari

"I don't have children. Am I 'allowed' to make decisions about my own body?"

Of course you're allowed to. Your body, your decisions.

But it's naive to pretend it's consequence-free in terms of contributing to a wider cultural issue which makes it difficult for women to age normally,

I'm 40 and when I look at people I follow on instagram who I admire, so many have botox that it's difficult to tell what a woman my age is meant to look like anymore.

E.g Sali Hughes looks fabulous and natural and looks my age, but actually she's five years older and uses botox.

So sure, you do you, but you are undeniably making it harder for other women. That's just the reality. I may well yet cave to botox, I hope not but if I do I'll know that while I've made ageing easier for me personally, I've also become part of the problem.[/quote]
This is the thing - not every 40 year old looks the same without any treatment . What is this about "meant to look like " ?

@Yesyoucantell

Wow. I just love being described as cheap and tacky by judgemental strangers on the internet

Well people you know are hardly going to say it to your face are they, no matter what they are actually thinking?

My husband would be completely honest and he constantly tells me how sexy I look 🤷🏼‍♀️

What about strangers? I regularly get people I don't know complimenting my hair. My hairdresser is a genius.

I went brunette for a while and it really didn't suit me. All of my friends told me I suited being blonde.

It's fine for you not to like the blonde, tanned look but that doesn't mean you have the right to call people cheap and tacky.
It makes you as bad as the man who refused to believe I had a PhD because I dye my hair blonde, wear make up and enjoy getting dressed up.

I had Botox for pain lines, after 6 months of excruciating pain I developed them. Had surgery, the pain went but every time I looked in the mirror it was etched on my face so I had some Botox (done by an a&e doctor)
Had it maybe 4 times, now I use retinol and haven't felt the need to have it again

Is Botox good for crow's feet? Asking for a friend.

@Bumzoo

Is Botox good for crow's feet? Asking for a friend.

This is exactly the kind of thing it is good for.