Meet the Other Phone. Only the apps you allow.

Meet the Other Phone.
Only the apps you allow.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

John learns to adult

806 replies

R0SEMARY · 30/05/2021 00:12

Thread 2 - many thanks to @GAHgamel for the thread title. And to everyone else who has supported and advised me thus far.

OP posts:
DeireadhFomhair · 27/10/2021 14:05

I know you're getting on with life now @R0SEMARY, but just popping by to say that I still think about you and all you've been through and hope you're now loving your new drama-free life!

grapewine · 08/12/2021 18:44

@DeireadhFomhair

I know you're getting on with life now *@R0SEMARY*, but just popping by to say that I still think about you and all you've been through and hope you're now loving your new drama-free life!
I was just coming on to say the same.
R0SEMARY · 02/01/2022 10:19

Hello lovely Vipers and a Happy New Year to you all! Im looking forward to a whole year John free 😃

Here’s some of my news.

The kids are all doing ok, although DS2 is not doing well in school. He’s not even trying and refuses to do any studying at all and of course I can’t force him. If I mention it at all he goes out to the gym to avoid me . Sigh.

Ds1 and DS3 say they much happier now their father isn’t around all the time causing trouble and drama. DS3 said ( quite sadly ) that his father seems much happier now because he doesn’t have to waste any of his time being a dad - all his time is all his own .

Christmas - as planned they spent Christmas Day here with me and went to their fathers in the evening, as late as possible. In fact they didn’t go until 11pm so they are playing him at his own game of sticking to the letter of an agreement rather than the spirit.

John continues to be an arsehole to me whenever he seems me alone so I have cut off his supply and only deal with him by email. This makes so so much happier.

John has continued to pay both child maintenance and spousal maintenance in fear of the CSA / HMRC checking his tax return . I trust this years won’t be fraudulent.

This has enabled me to keep a roof over our heads , along with the smallish income from my own business , which is just in its early stages so not making a lot.

So far much as expected.

OP posts:
R0SEMARY · 02/01/2022 10:43

What wasn’t expected , at least not by me:

John didn’t buy DS2 a £12k car. He bought him a £15k car, 10 days after he passed his driving test Shock. DS2 is over the moon of course. He traded in his older 1.1l car that’s 6 years old .

I thought I would be incandescent but I’m just resigned. I can’t stop him and he’s paying all the associated costs, like insurance and even petrol. It has a black box so hopefully DS will have to drive it safely.

I disapprove of course . It’s way too much money for a 17 year old , it’s not teaching him the value of money and would be better spent on his university education. The car is too valuable and the engine too big.

But I’ve said nothing. I need to let it go as I’m powerless to stop it.

Anyway John has in fact spoilt Christmas for the other 2 kids, even though he did give them a generous amount of money to buy a gift. But DS1 and DS3 are angry at the unfairness of it.

As John is a beginner to parenting he’s not worked out that teenagers compete with each other and you have to be scrupulously fair.

In other surprise news - John has either split up with OW or he’s cheating on her as he has been seen on dating apps. Not by me I hasten to add, but by a single friend of mine.

He is using a niche app which is specific to our religious / cultural group. Which is pretty silly really as someone was bound to spot him and report back.

He’s so stupid he has used his work photo on his profile so a reverse image search would taken anyone to his work page ( I’m assuming so although I’ve not tried it ).

This has caused much hilarity among my female friends and several have threatened to join it and catfish him 🤣🤣🤣🤣

And on the theme of cheating - Helen is apparently cheating on her wife of 6 months , Katie. According to DS1, who is the only one of my kids she is close to.

Peter doesn’t approve but he says nothing to her face as he is scared of her.

I know we shouldn’t be surprised as Helens last LTR broke up because of her affair with her partner’s best friend. But I am shocked - I suppose I naively though Helen has learned her lesson.

I don’t particularly like Katie, she’s arrogant and patronising but she doesn’t deserve this, poor girl.

OP posts:
HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime · 02/01/2022 10:47

Although the car is a ridiculous gift hopefully it comes with lots of safety gadgets so DS will be safer than if he was in a cheaper or older car.

BliainNua · 02/01/2022 11:03

Oh @R0SEMARY, I'm so happy to see your update! Life is good for you it seems, and you completely have the right approach re the car - you can't control it, so don't mention it. You'll only end up being the "baddy" and John will get pleasure from your reaction.
You've raised 3 wonderful children. DS2 will come around, he's young and is only seeing the glittery objects right now (15k car 🙄), but he'll see John for what he is soon enough.
All the very best for 2022, you've a wonderful John-free life now Smile

Sandunesandseashells · 02/01/2022 11:14

Happy New Year Rosemary 💐
I hope he doesn’t drive a wedge between the ds’s by treating them differently.
So the one benefiting most from John’s generosity is now lacking in motivation for working towards further education/career and is therefore being ‘spoiled’. Thank goodness he still lives with you or he would be lost already.

R0SEMARY · 02/01/2022 11:18

You are right @HPandTheNeverEndingBedtime, that’s a good way to look at it.

@BliainNua - That’s very wise, I think Ds2 is already seeing through his father, but of course he likes the shiny stuff.

He’s the only one of the three who was upset when his father left. He’s also the one who is most insecure and doesn't have much sense of himself. And he has a friendship group who care a lot of about labels and money. So he’s the most vulnerable on all these counts.

I had to go away for a couple of days for work in November and the boys refused to go to stay at their fathers. DS2 even slept in my bed when I was away - he doesn’t know that I know that.

OP posts:
Calamitydrayne · 02/01/2022 11:26

U surprising really that DS2 isn't that worried about study though with a 15k car to play with all paid for lol

pointythings · 02/01/2022 11:47

I think you're handling everything brilliantly, R0semary. And you'll be there for your DS2 when things go tits up for him. Which they will - but the conventional school route isn't for everyone and there are other options. He'll come out of it sadder, wiser and properly appreciative of the one good parent he has - you.

Luckyducky75 · 02/01/2022 13:54

You've done brilliantly this year, have you thought of putting it all together in a book? I think it'd be a bestseller! Xx

Glindaswand · 02/01/2022 15:33

Helen sounds like Veruca Salt

R0SEMARY · 02/01/2022 17:45

I agree @Calamitydrayne and @Sandunesandseashells. Though to be fair , it’s not just the car - DS2 has been doing badly at school since his father left.

@pointythings - DS2 actually has an offer from university to do the course he wants, but it’s conditional on him getting quite high grades in his exams. And he’s not doing enough work to get these grades. I’ve tried everything I can to encourage him to study but I can’t force him.

I don’t really know what’s going on his head, it’s not as if he is trying and failing - he’s not even trying. 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️ He won’t talk about it either - just says he will study nearer his exams 😬Hmm

I’m happy for him to take a gap year but he knows he will need to get a job . I’ve been very clear with him that I’m not working 50 hours a week to support him to sit on his X Box for a year.

@Glindaswand I’ve just watched a couple of clips on YouTube and it’s uncanny, they are like twins separated at birth 🤣🤣🤣🤣

OP posts:
redastherose · 02/01/2022 17:54

Glad to hear it's all going well @R0SEMARY. With regard to DS2 not studying there isn't much you can do,you can't make him, all you can do is point out what he'll miss out on by not getting to university. Especially if his mates are all heading off too. No so much fun being home and having to do resits at school when everyone else is off in the adult world.

R0SEMARY · 02/01/2022 17:58

@redastherose

Glad to hear it's all going well *@R0SEMARY*. With regard to DS2 not studying there isn't much you can do,you can't make him, all you can do is point out what he'll miss out on by not getting to university. Especially if his mates are all heading off too. No so much fun being home and having to do resits at school when everyone else is off in the adult world.
YY his best friend already has an unconditional offer and will be going to university 2 hours away.
OP posts:
pointythings · 02/01/2022 18:13

It's so difficult when they're sabotaging themselves, but even if he fully bombs his A levels, he may have the option of doing a foundation year. It may well not be at the university he prefers, though. At his age, you can't force things, only help him accept the consequences of his choices. It sounds like he's the one who has struggled the most with things with his dad, so it isn't surprising this is coming out in what he does. I hope he will find his path eventually.

SusieSusieSoo · 02/01/2022 18:36

So pleased to read your update @R0SEMARY. I had a "d" p for a while who was very similar to John in many ways. Your early posts really cheered me up at a difficult point in my life so thank you!

Life is hard at times but so much easier when you're not having to work around a John all the time isn't it?

I wish you and yours a very happy 2022 xx

Masdintle · 02/01/2022 19:39

Thanks so much for the update. I've kept this thread on my watched list and it's good to know things are going well for you. No words of wisdom for your middle child, they're always a bit of a nightmare (middle child here Grin)

Happy New Year!

R0SEMARY · 02/01/2022 20:25

Thank you @SusieSusieSoo, I’m glad that you managed to escape your John. It’s funny how they think they are so clever, powerful and manipulative and most of all unique and interesting. When in fact they are carbon cut outs of each other. Tedious little men who believe that their middle management job and good salary means they rule the world.

I was recently speaking to a leader in our community , who asked me eye director why I had not told them before how Joh was treating me .

I didn’t know how to answer , because the truth is

“ I never thought you would believe me as he’s a man . And even if you did, I assumed you wouldn’t care and you’d take his side anyway because he’s a man .”

So I mumbled something about John having an important position in the community etc etc

The leader made that noise that I don’t even know how to write - it might be Pfft, like a sarcastic snort ?? And said dismissively

“ Oh Yes that John Surname - every time you ask him to do something he’s too busy and important to help and even when when he does he always pulls out at the last minute. He’s not been someone important since I’ve been here and that’s 20 years “.

I was very VERY shocked. For years John has been telling me what an important figure is he is in our community, how everyone respects him so much and how I will have to move away if I leave him because the children and I will be judged and excluded by everyone. And how he will tell everyone what a bad wife I am and they will hate me etc etc. He has used this as a way to control me.

And that’s not been the case at all. In fact many people have gone out of their way to be kind . Of course there have been a few looks and whispered comments but only one or two from people I don’t care about in the slightest TBH.

This leader who spoke to me Is very powerful and well thought of ( and male naturally) so I’m was SHOCKED to be on the receiving end of kindness and understanding from him. I would never EVER have expected it.

( Hope that all makes sense and that you understand why I don’t want to go into identifying details as I’ve posted so much personal info here.)

OP posts:
DisforDarkChocolate · 03/01/2022 04:54

Thank you for the update @R0SEMARY. I feel so sorry for DS2, he's going to have a very difficult time if all his friends go of to university and he can't.

R0SEMARY · 03/01/2022 10:37

@DisforDarkChocolate

Thank you for the update *@R0SEMARY*. I feel so sorry for DS2, he's going to have a very difficult time if all his friends go of to university and he can't.
Yes indeed , that’s my concern. He will lose his main friendship group in one fell swoop. Yes of course I know they will all say that they will keep in touch and mean it. But it never happens because they all get caught up in their new lives - it’s only natural.

DS 2 has also just decided to quit the sport that he has been playing at a very high level for the last 8 years . It was a huge part of his life as he trained several nights a week and played most weekends.

He wanted to quit in the summer and I encouraged him to give it a few months more ( because I thought it was a short term reaction to his father leaving ). For one in his life DS2 listened to me and did so, so I had to respect his decision when he said he still wanted to quit last month.

His heart isn’t in it anymore and he’s not enjoying it . So that’s another big part of his life just gone .

OP posts:
Orgasmagorical · 03/01/2022 11:04

It’s funny how they think they are so clever, powerful and manipulative and most of all unique and interesting. When in fact they are carbon cut outs of each other. Tedious little men who believe that their middle management job and good salary means they rule the world.

Ha! Mine said he could well be awarded an honours for the work he has done. What he doesn't realise is that he's done fuck all and you have to be nominated. Poor deluded fool.

Good to hear from you, Rosemary, and that you're doing so well. Sorry that DS2 is struggling, I hope he'll pick up soon.

R0SEMARY · 03/01/2022 14:34

I’ve spent some time reading back this and my other thread and it’s been quite sobering. I’ve almost forgotten some of this stuff and I don’t know why. It was only 2021 and I’m not aware of having any memory problems. Maybe it’s just self protection, I don’t know.

But I guess it’s useful to have a record of what has happened.

Another thing that confuses me is how John has changed from one extreme to the other.

First of all he barely saw the kids for the first three months, due to his “They know where I am if they want to get in touch “ policy.

Then he swung to inviting them over for tea and offering to run them about / pick them up from school on almost a daily basis.

From June to October he wouldn’t spend a penny on them. He only paid child maintenance when he had to. Then from October to now he has been plying them with ridiculous amounts of money.

At first he told no one in our social circles and now he’s going about bad mouthing me to everyone.

I don’t know what’s going on. Now part of me says “ Fuck him why should I care, he’s not worth the head space “.

And another part of me says “ He’s up to something and I don’t know what, this is worrying. Because I know that he is dangerous and has no scruples “.

I was less worried when he was still with OW, as that seemed to keep him busy. But now I believe ( not proof ) he is single and bored again I’m anxious.

The one thing that IS consistent about John is that he is always a total arsehole. Even in situations where it would be easier for him to communicate and be cooperative. It’s like he can’t stop himself playing one upmanship.

A small example - he hasn’t seen the school reports or been at parents evening for our two younger children. This is because he refuses to contact the school and ask for his own online parents account. He won’t do this because he thinks it’s my job to sort this, as I’ve been doing it for 15 years.

I have continued to try to act reasonably and politely - though that’s been a lot easier now he only communicates by email and only when he wants me to do something. But I’m not his PA anymore.

Thankfully his consistent nastiness means that I’ve not had one single moment of missing him or longing for the “ good old days “. I tried very hard for years to make our marriage work and I got back NOTHING from him.

So I don’t have that feeling of “ If only I’d tried harder “ and worried if I’ve done the right thing. I’ve not a shadow of doubt. Every single day I thank God that I’m free of him and have a new life.

In the first years of our marriage , I stayed because he did that nasty / nice things that abusers do. Where you excuse and forgive all the bad parts because sometimes he is nice. And you know that the nice guy is the real person and he’s only mean because Reasons. And I’d you just work hard enough to make these Reasons go away, everything will be Mr Wonderful/ Charming again.

And we did have some especially difficult circumstances in our lives that he used to excise his shitty behaviour . Funnily enough it was never allowed to be an excuse for me to be anything less than 100% perfect.

But for the last years of our marriage I knew full well that he was actually Mr Nasty. He didn’t have to waste his time and energy being nice at all because I was trapped by economic factors - he used money, my job , power and the children to control me.

So I struggle to think of any times when he was ever nice to me in the last few years, unless it was in front of people and he was keeping up his public image . What’s it called - the optics ?

It was horrible to live through . But the upside of that now is that all my memories of him are unpleasant ones. I’m only sad that I stayed so long, not that he’s gone.

Mostly I’m actually very happy , because I’m looking forward and not back.

OP posts:
pointythings · 03/01/2022 14:41

I think he is acting the way he is because it's his only and default setting. Controlling you and his kids is the only modus operandi he has. It's telling that the Important Person at his work that you spoke to was so scathing of him and that John is completely unaware of how people perceive him. He is the way he is because he can't be any other way. No point cudgelling your brain about it.

I'm glad your life is so much better without him. Not that it was ever going to be otherwise!

R0SEMARY · 03/01/2022 17:54

Thank you @pointythings and @Orgasmagorical.

So maybe there is no cunning plan. He is simply using the two tactics he knows:

  1. Giving or withholding time / attention / money to control and manipulate others
  2. Telling lies to control and manipulate others

The can of deodorant to one child and the £15k car to the other are not different tactics - they are opposite sides of the same coin. He’s just thrashing around trying anything to see what works.

It’s not a carefully worked out plan - it’s desperation. #lightbulbmoment

Ok that gives me a big clue what he will try next.

Thank you everyone for letting me vent on this thread, it’s been so helpful writing it all down and getting your feedback.

OP posts: