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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

John learns to adult

806 replies

R0SEMARY · 30/05/2021 00:12

Thread 2 - many thanks to @GAHgamel for the thread title. And to everyone else who has supported and advised me thus far.

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KnightandDay · 22/08/2021 18:25

So lovely to hear from you @R0SEMARY!
Delighted you had such a great holiday - you sound so calm and strong!
I presuming you haven't heard a peep from Helen or her GF? Such a relief I'm sure!
Wishing you all the very best for a wonderful drama free futureFlowers

Justilou1 · 22/08/2021 19:08

You sound like you’re blossoming @R0SEMARY… so pleased to hear that you and the kids had a lovely holiday and that you are doing so well. I guess you can’t miss what you never had, and you never had a close, supportive relationship WITH John, just FOR him. You’ve eclipsed him.

pointythings · 22/08/2021 19:27

I'm so glad you had a peaceful holiday without him! It's a transformation, isn't it?

Your strength and dignity are incredible. Huge pat on the back from me. I'm glad he is starting to step up and realise that there are consequences to not being an active parent - but none of that is your problem. You're doing everything right, focusing on yourself and your DC. You're going to thrive without him.

Dontwatchfootball · 22/08/2021 19:36

@R0SEMARY - I have been following your posts for a while now, and I am so happy for you. You sound like you are doing so well.

Orgasmagorical · 22/08/2021 19:36

I know that this makes me weird.

I don't think it does. I was with my ex for 30 years and I was upset to begin with, even though I really didn't like him at all for the last few years, but once the relief hit I was on a high for such a long time. I'm still relieved every day that I'm not with him.

I hadn’t realised how stressful it was living with him.

It's amazing what becomes normal for you. Within the hour of my ex leaving I could feel how much lighter the whole place felt, it was palpable.

R0SEMARY · 22/08/2021 20:40

@Justilou1

You sound like you’re blossoming *@R0SEMARY*… so pleased to hear that you and the kids had a lovely holiday and that you are doing so well. I guess you can’t miss what you never had, and you never had a close, supportive relationship WITH John, just FOR him. You’ve eclipsed him.
Thank you @Justilou1 any everyone else for your kind comments.

You are right that the marriage was all about me being kind to him and supporting him - it was never mutual. So there’s nothing to miss.

I spend most evenings for YEARS listening to his work problems for hours and then watching TV programmes I didn’t like. I will never ever watch one minute of golf or Formula 1 again. Honestly I feel angry looking back and feel like I’ve wasted half my life with him #exaggeration

This is why I’m trying not to look back - it just makes me angry. I’m looking forward and enjoying my new found freedom.

I’m also learning from my past mistakes #bekind and learning to ignore most of what he sends me in texts. He still sends me messages as if he’s my boss at work, demanding to know what I’m doing about various things.

He thinks he gets to tell me how to parent and that I have to run everything by him for his approval. I don’t mean big issues - obviously I would contact him if a child was seriously ill or something like that.

He will send me emails demanding to know what I’m doing with the children on a certain evening or at the weekend. He doesn’t need to know this as the children organise their contact with him directly - I have nothing to do with it. I just ask the kids to let me know what they are up to so I don’t worry if they are not home . Same as if they are out at a friends.

So I don’t answer John directly. I say things like

“ DS2 told me that he’s coming to yours for tea on Saturday and you will drop him home at 8pm. Is that correct? “

When I want to say “ It’s none of your fucking business where I went on Friday alone and where I’m going with the boys on Sunday. I don’t answer to you anymore and I don’t have to run my plans past you for approval. So fuck off “.

John has also taken to sending me the occasional helpful text such as

“ Are you taking DS3 to his football on Tuesday ? “

Since I have taken him to every single football training for the last 5 years with zero input or support from his father, I don’t think I need reminding now.

These texts are so weird, I can only assume they are being sent for another audience. If they are being sent to get an intemperate response from me, they are not working.

I only write texts and emails to him if I would be happy to read them out in court. He’s very manipulative and litigious. And the most important thing in his life is to be right.

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pointythings · 22/08/2021 20:44

Just to pick up on your feeling that not grieving over him being gone is weird - it's not. I didn't grieve when my late husband left either. He was taken away by the police after threatening to kill me. That sounds dramatic and it was, but when you are in a situation where your relationship is that bad, you've already done your grieving, often without realising it. It might be worth thinking about that idea, so that you don't beat yourself up with guilt that you're 'weird'.

prettybird · 22/08/2021 22:06

Good to hear from you @R0SEMARY and it's fantastic that your younger 2 dcs and you enjoyed a lovely relaxing holiday. Well deserved Flowers

You sound a different woman: strong and assertive and you're not going to let him manipulate you any more. That must be really discombobulating him Grin shaaaaame Wink

KatherineSiena · 22/08/2021 22:42

I always find a good old 👍 works well in response to any inane question.

KatherineSiena · 22/08/2021 22:45

And you’re doing just fine. I’m glad you had a good holiday and you sound as if you’re settling into a lovely, Johnless family routine.

Justilou1 · 22/08/2021 22:47

Virtue-Daddying. Similar vein to Virtue-Signalling, but potentially even more nauseating.

DartmoorDoughnut · 23/08/2021 07:37

You sound so much happier @R0SEMARY Grin

Orgasmagorical · 23/08/2021 09:34

These texts are so weird, I can only assume they are being sent for another audience. If they are being sent to get an intemperate response from me, they are not working.

I only write texts and emails to him if I would be happy to read them out in court. He’s very manipulative and litigious. And the most important thing in his life is to be right.

Oh yes, the tone of my ex's communications became so kind and reasonable when he realised I was giving one word, grey rock answers and wasn't bothered by his bullshit. He very obviously thought he would shine through as being the decent one but it didn't fool anyone. Once a prick always a prick.

R0SEMARY · 23/08/2021 09:54

I am going to add “ once a prick, always a prick” to my mantras.

And thanks @KatherineSiena for that reminder. Especially useful as John hates emoticons. 👍🏻👍🏻

Excellent use of the word “ discombobulating “ @prettybird

@pointythings - thank you, that’s helpful. You are right, I’ve been grieving for the last 6 years and now I’m done with it.

I’ve been very affected over these last 24 hours by the conversation with the RL friend who decided to stay with her cheating bastard of a husband. She’s always given the impression that it’s all sweetness and light now but yesterday it all came pouring out . Its clear that she’s very anxious all the time and very unhappy.

She talked about her D day and I suspect she may even have PTSD, as it was all very traumatic and public involving various third parties. Her husband is a complete and utter shit but she’s still trying to make it work, years later .

I feel so sad for her and so glad that I no longer have to live with the anxiety and the hyper vigilance . She is constantly worried that her kids will find out the truth even now.

This is all very ironic as she was supposedly comforting me on my news but I was fine and she was really distressed.

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billy1966 · 23/08/2021 09:54

@KatherineSiena

I always find a good old 👍 works well in response to any inane question.
Definitely. Also ignoring texts is so freeing, and so annoying for someone like him.

It indicates their lack of importance in your life.
So good to do.

You sound well OP.

BelladiMamma · 23/08/2021 10:01

@R0SEMARY

I am going to add “ once a prick, always a prick” to my mantras.

And thanks @KatherineSiena for that reminder. Especially useful as John hates emoticons. 👍🏻👍🏻

Excellent use of the word “ discombobulating “ @prettybird

@pointythings - thank you, that’s helpful. You are right, I’ve been grieving for the last 6 years and now I’m done with it.

I’ve been very affected over these last 24 hours by the conversation with the RL friend who decided to stay with her cheating bastard of a husband. She’s always given the impression that it’s all sweetness and light now but yesterday it all came pouring out . Its clear that she’s very anxious all the time and very unhappy.

She talked about her D day and I suspect she may even have PTSD, as it was all very traumatic and public involving various third parties. Her husband is a complete and utter shit but she’s still trying to make it work, years later .

I feel so sad for her and so glad that I no longer have to live with the anxiety and the hyper vigilance . She is constantly worried that her kids will find out the truth even now.

This is all very ironic as she was supposedly comforting me on my news but I was fine and she was really distressed.

This has happened to me too recently. Take it as a compliment, they're watching you grow in strength and live outside of the prison and want to see how you've done it xx
Orgasmagorical · 23/08/2021 10:16

Hopefully your friend will see how calm and happy you are now, Rosemary, and it'll occur to her at some point that she could have that too.

Twitchynose · 23/08/2021 11:18

Just popping by to say you’re doing amazing. I’m so proud of you (not that a random stranger’s option has much value, but I am so impressed with how you have handled everything).

R0SEMARY · 23/08/2021 16:19

Thank you @Twitchynose. I know you are a randomer but you are a MN randomer so that counts.

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EL8888 · 23/08/2021 16:48

@R0SEMARY instinct tells me the “reminder” texts are to play to a crowd I.e. his lady friend. I can imagine he says “oooh l do worry about Rosemary remembering about football practice, inset days etc. Normally l sort them!” As it sounds like he re-writes EVERYTHING

Glad to hear the updates and you’re doing well, great news about your holiday. We are all rooting for you!

prettybird · 23/08/2021 17:00

Not sure I would send a 👍🏻 I think I would send a 😒

Wink
R0SEMARY · 23/08/2021 17:02

I think you are right @EL8888. He even sends texts like “ You will need to take DS2 to X tonight “.

Not sure who he thinks has been doing all this for 20 years. So yes, I assume it’s for AP. Hope she’s impressed.

Dc3 reports that his father is complaining that DS is always too busy to see him and that he missed spending time with him. The irony of this is not lost on DS.

So DS has suggested that his father takes him shopping tonight because he wants new trainers and school shoes ( he’s not daft that boy).

So this will in fact be the first time that John has bought a single item of clothing / footwear for any of his children this century ( I used to buy everything for my step children as well).

I might make him a medal 🏅🏅🏅

And this is on top of buying bedding for the children’s beds at his house! He is truly amazing!

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Toothmouse · 23/08/2021 17:33

WOW, now his DS will no longer be barefoot, and he will have a gold medal!

RandomMess · 23/08/2021 17:37

It's amazing to read how clearly you see all his behaviour now. Such a swift change in a relatively short period of time.

R0SEMARY · 23/08/2021 18:41

@RandomMess I’ve known for years that he was a lazy father who did the bare minimum and only the fun bits of parenting that he enjoyed. Sadly I didn’t realise this until I’d had three of his children.

But like many mothers I’ve put up with it because it seemed better than the alternative. And the kids didn’t suffer because I did everything for them.

Over the last few years I realised that if / when we separated he would see little of his kids. It would have been worse if it has happened when the were younger, as it would have been up to me to beg him to see them. He would have used this to continue to control me.

He often threatened that if I left him he would move abroad and never see the kids and it would be all my fault. That’s one of the reasons I’ve hung on for years.

So none of his conduct with the kids is a shock to me. And it’s not a surprise to two of the three kids either. But it still hurts them I think.

And it definitely hurts John’s ego that his kids CBA with him, everyone is fine and the sky hasn’t fallen. He thought we couldn’t manage without him.

He also thought that he could use money to control me post split, so he’s been deeplyshocked to have to pay maintenance. He’s so arrogant he didn’t take legal advice and thought that his argument for not paying it was a slam dunk.

So it’s not that I thought he was a great husband and father 6 months ago and now I can see clearly. He’s been an awful husband for years . But various events over the last year or so have shown me just how bad he was and in the end it was all too much to put up with any longer.

Finding out that his lies and manipulations went back to the start of our marriage was just the final straw. He has undermined me with colleagues and family member for years - I don’t even know what’s real and what’s made up. Two decades of gas lighting.

So that was all new to me. And now I know that, a lot of other things have finally made sense . It’s like the last few pieces of the jigsaw.

And of course his conduct since he left has just reinforced things for me. As it does with most women.I’ve been on MN for years and I’ve read hundreds of threads where the man declares undying love for her / his kids . Followed by months if not years of shitty behaviour.

I know that the words “ I love you / my kids / you are everything to me / I can’t live without you “ often mean “ Stay or I will make your life hell”.

His two main ways of controlling me / others were through money and withdrawing love/ affection / contact. But now he HAS to give us money and he’s the one who wants contact. So his two main weapons are useless.

His third weapon is bad mouthing me to everyone. But of course people now take what he says with a pinch of salt . Someone calling their ex for everything isn’t exactly unusual. It’s a bit of “ Well he would say that, wouldn't he ?”.

I’ve left our joint workplace so I no longer care what ex colleagues think. There’s only one person I keep in touch with and she knows exactly what John is like.

I will probably never see any of his family again - which hurts a bit but I’m resigned to it now. So why should I care if he’s been telling them I’m the psycho bitch from hell?

One of the best things about this is that I never have to deal with Helen again. She’s been a great source of pain and confusion in my life. Of course I know now that she’s had her strings pulled by John, but she’s still not a very nice person.

His fourth weapon has been isolating me from others. But time has changed that as the kids are old enough to be left alone for the evening so I can go out. And I’ve made my own friends who he can’t manipulate / control because he’s never met them.

Covid has stopped my social life ( like everyone else of course ) but I’ve been back at ( more than ) full time work for the last 12 months.

Two things that have helped me so much are talking about it here and going for counselling ( as advised here ). When it’s all inside your head it goes round and rounds. I often ended up believing what he told me and he’s such a dominant person and very plausible.

All the comments here ( and links to blogs / YouTube / books ) have helped me see things more clearly. There was so much fear , obligation and guilt ( as Attilathemeerkat would say ) .

It’s made me be more open with people in RL and less afraid that they will judge me. Remember we come from a conservative culture where you are expected to make your marriage work if at all possible, especially if you have kids.

But in fact almost everyone has been lovely . So many good surprises have come through this.

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