John learns to adult

[R0SEMARY]

Thread 2 - many thanks to @GAHgamel for the thread title. And to everyone else who has supported and advised me thus far.

Don't worry about mentioning the C word. I have a week off after I ship my last child off to their uni, last week in September, and plan to start my end-of-the-year-cold-season shopping then.

As for him coming to yours - Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

No.

Next time DS2 goes there, cut the toes out of an old pair of trainers, and get him to tell John it's because they're too small; then see what happens.

John has already been on at the kids about coming here for Christmas

Do you think he means it or is he trying to get a reaction from you?

Coming to you for Christmas? Seriously?I mean, he really thinks you'll invite him? It must be nice in Cloud Cuckoo Land.....

Seriously please consider this. He may have ducked the shoe shopping because he would be in an unfamiliar setting. He may have been 'afraid' of doing something 'wrong' in that he might have drawn attention to himself being a novice at this activity.
Might you suggest this to No1 Son when you can talk to him by himself?

Would it be possible for him to take John and No2 who really does need shoes and school clothes and stuff. The boys will be able to prepare a list easily.
The boys can jolly him along.

@Wandawide

Seriously please consider this. He may have ducked the shoe shopping because he would be in an unfamiliar setting. He may have been 'afraid' of doing something 'wrong' in that he might have drawn attention to himself being a novice at this activity. Might you suggest this to No1 Son when you can talk to him by himself? Would it be possible for him to take John and No2 who really does need shoes and school clothes and stuff. The boys will be able to prepare a list easily. The boys can jolly him along.

I don't think it's in their best interests to 'jolly him along' or parent him.

I think I understand the sentiment behind your post, but we are a little beyond that in this situation

He wants to nail down Christmas so he can comtinue with his good guy narrative, rather that the truth that the whole family could give a shit if I am on my own.

A Christmas without him sounds heavenly.

When John prepared his “ I’m leaving “ speech for the children, his first draft actually said things like

“ We will still be a family and spend special days like Christmas and birthdays together “

And “ we won’t divorce, just separate to protect your inheritance from me “.

It was most informative and entertaining to read - l had a lot of WTAF moments.

Of course I vetoed almost all his speech although he put a lot back in.

So I always knew this was his agenda. He’s far too lazy to dream of doing Christmas / birthdays himself. He honestly thinks I will still facilitate all these special times for him - he thinks he can sell it to me as “ for the children’s sake”.

But now they have experienced a few months without the stress of him here, I don’t think they will want to go back. It’s not as if he would come here and act as a polite guest. He will be his usual complaining critical self.

He never does anything for Christmas or birthdays - I do it all. He’s never bought any gifts for any of the children ( or me - I had to buy my own for him to give me ) or arranged any parties or special treats.

He’s never hung up a Christmas decoration - I’m rather partial to Christmas decorations and have ..ahem… several trees. In a show of generosity I gave him one when he left ( but no Ornaments, natch ) .

So he will have a sad little 5ft tree in the corner with a dozen lights and 24 baubles and I will sneer. Inside my head of course.

I have raised 3 children who expect a high standard of tree and a Proper Christmas Dinner 😬😬 .

@Wandawide - John LOVES shopping. He goes shopping at lunchtime when he works in the office. He would randomly announce at 7pm “ We are low on milk “ so he could out and browse The Middle of Lidl.

However his favourite shops are Curries, PC World and the late lamented Maplin. He’s just never bought anything for the children (unless it’s sold in PC world).

Until a few years ago I bought all his clothes for him as well 😳🤦🏼‍♀️ but now he does his own. So I’m pretty sure he knows how to buy shoes.

But it’s nice of you to think so kindly of him 🙂

Christmas together, John? Oh no, ho, ho, ho, ho ho 🎅🏼
Well done Rosemary for staying so amazing and strong 🎄🎄

Oh. I know a John (also called John).Yes. Very well.

@R0SEMARY - you are an Inspiration x

Rosemary, I’m late to your Saga of John. I just want to say you are absolutely amazing. Your kids are amazing. Your ex is an utter cockwomble, as I believe the MN phrase goes.can I just add that you rock?!?!?!

John once told me that he wanted me to “ stare into the abyss and see what life would be like without him”

Did he now? I'm sure the 'abyss' looked quite a promising prospect!!

I would have thought that a frozen crevasse would have seemed preferable to remaining with that wizened gnome of a man anyway. Turns out your abyss is quite a nice place to be.

Hope he doesn’t try to guilt trip the children into Christmas together @R0SEMARY stay strong and tell him to do one the CFer

Well, you jumped into that abyss, landed on a pile of soft cushions and found there was a comfy sofa, a pot of tea and some cakes waiting for you right there. So you've never looked back, have you?

I can't believe anyone would try to defend John on the grounds that he has never shoe and clothes shopped with children before. It isn't rocket science and any adult should be able to do it.

( but no Ornaments, natch )

I love your style, Rosemary

They can be very odd about Christmas - you've always facilitated it for them, why wouldn't that continue?

My exH couldn't believe that he didn't get a Christmas day invite after we separated.

Apparently he sat all day waiting for the phone call. When he told me (later) I said I assumed he would be with OW. He replied "how could I be, she's married"

@Tallisimo thank you . I’m glad you mentioned cockwomble as that’s his new name on my phone.

Along with a ringtone about being too busy for him ( he was always too busy for me and the kids). There were lots of fun ones suggested here but sadly not suitable for work.

@pointythings I’m enjoying where you have pushed John’s metaphor. And yes I’m sitting here eating cake and drinking tea ( not losing those Covid 19 pounds but that’s another issue).

I know I’m a bit demob happy right now and no doubt things will get a long harder when we progress the divorce ( probably early 2022). But I’m just relieved that the kids seem to be ok and I can pay the bills. I’m working long hours ( self employed ) to try and build up my business to minimise the shortfall when he stops paying SM sometime next year ( I expect ).

Diddums re John not knowing how to buy shoes and not having the confidence to do so for his dc.

The dcs are mid teens (and older) - it's not as if they are young kids who can't articulate what they want Trying to excuse a grown man for possibly being afraid of doing the wrong thing is just infantilising him and excusing his arrogant self centred behaviour This is the man who thinks he is the master manipulator and who has a senior position earning megabucks. I'm genuinely that anyone, male or female could try to excuse his behaviour

I presume ROSEMARY that you still need to buy your dc new school shoes and summer clothes (amazingly, clothes bought for a hot summer holiday might not be suitable for late summer in your country ) - but John will be happy about this because it comes out of what is in his mind the outrageous amount of money that he is having to pay you to support his and your offspring.

@MotherofTerriers. Poor lamb waiting in all alone .🤣🤣🤣🤣

John will not be coming here and the only reason I care is that if he’s alone the children will feel bad and he might try to guilt trip one of them into coming to his.

So I think I will suggest they do the day here and go to his in the evening. We always have Christmas dinner about 4pm so if they go about 7pm he won’t have to cook for them.

I don’t know who John’s latest AP is so don’t know if they are married. But he’s not going to tell the kids that. He knows that they won’t fall for the “ we just met a few weeks ago “.

If he had any sense he would arrange to go to one of his large family of Christmas Day and have the kids on Boxing day. But he is too proud and wouldn’t want to admit that he is alone at Christmas . No doubt he’s told them all that it’s amicable blah blah blah .

In other news, DS2 ( the one who is learning to drive ) came in last night and said his dad is willing to buy him a £12k car if I will pay half.

I’ve not discussed money with DS2 so far as he’s the least practical, most selfish and closest to his dad. So I explained to him that I will pay for the car pro rata to my income v his father. John has 99.5% of our combined income and I have 0.5% ( this is after pension and CS) .

So that’s £600 to me and £11, 400 to him. And of course John has to pay the running costs.

Let’s see if that happens. No doubt that will go the same way as “dads buying me a whole new wardrobe of clothes and two pairs of shoes”.

As a PP said “ Once a prick - always a prick “.

Indeed, poor lamb
Gives me a nice fuzzy warm feeling every time I think about it

He expected that it would be very amicable with him popping in for coffee/drinks/meals when he felt like it
What he didn't anticipate - and to be honest neither did I - was how much happier we all have been without his presence in the house

OP, I've been following (and posted on earlier versions I think) and I think you're being amazing. I am also really interested to hear your comments re the sheer relief of being without him. I think that's such a clear indication not only of how badly he treated you but of how far you've come.

As for his expectations that the DC will contact him... WTAF is it about parents (and, in my experience, grandparents) with this? I've seen it with BIL as well - whining because his 13 year old doesn't call him? Nothing will destroy his relationship with them more than their clear understanding that he can't be assed. Your DC sound v sensible though.

@Wandawide

Seriously please consider this. He may have ducked the shoe shopping because he would be in an unfamiliar setting. He may have been 'afraid' of doing something 'wrong' in that he might have drawn attention to himself being a novice at this activity. Might you suggest this to No1 Son when you can talk to him by himself? Would it be possible for him to take John and No2 who really does need shoes and school clothes and stuff. The boys will be able to prepare a list easily. The boys can jolly him along.

Good grief that is the most pathetic excuse for a man that I have ever read. You make it sound like the sons should be parenting their father!

This is about an adult (very important job of course) man taking his mid-teen son to buy trainers. As the parent in this situation all he need to do is to take a seat while ds tries them on, offer opinion if asked and hand over a credit card at the appropriate moment. He doesn't need to be babied.

In other news, DS2 ( the one who is learning to drive ) came in last night and said his dad is willing to buy him a £12k car if I will pay half

Or he could buy on his own for £6k and still have a nicer car than I’ve got and a big step up from all his mates. No 17 year old needs a 12k car.