Page 5 | Where did all the good men go in the UK?

TossaCoinToYerWitcher · 22/05/2021 15:16

@PermanentTemporary

Obviously there will have been men my sort of age who didn't get in touch with me because they wanted someone younger. My new bloke is 3 years older than me which is about the gap I usually have in relationships and there were plenty at that age around. For sex dating... God, it's a buffet. My most persistent bloke off that site is 10 years younger than me. I could have been knee deep in guys in their 20s and early 30s wanting an older woman ( equally sexist in its way... but hey. I only succumbed a few times. Ish But men in their 40s and 50s are better lovers in my experience).

I am absolutely not denying sexist forces and attitudes out there. But you just don't have to accept them.

Good for you! 🙂 It is funny though - I’m a guy in his mid forties who’s actually looking for someone round his age. Anecdotally, however, I’ve found a lot of the single women in that age bracket are happier to take up offers from younger guys instead. As you say, there’s no shortage. Conversely, when I did do OLD most of the few offers I got were from women a decade older.

DeadlyMedally · 22/05/2021 15:26

I have actually noticed some interesting social trends on the internet the last few years that have some relevance.
Men have had various groups that revolve around the reverse of this idea (dating is skewed towards women and fee are worthwhile partners), I'd estimate that they came to prominence around 10-15 years ago.
What I have noticed recently, is that women have started to create their own similar groups. One of the biggest such groups on Reddit is "r/femaledatingstrategy", which is well-explained by it's name.
The crux of it's ethos is that most men are low-value (this seems to embody a huge range of negative traits, from those that make a man unattractive, to those that make him a poor marriage partner) and a woman needs strategies to filter out low-value men, whilst attracting and retaining the high-value men.
Reddit is a pretty open platform, so you can see a user's entire posting history, which means you can get a good idea of what other communities a subreddit's users are a part of.
The male equivalents skew quite young in terms of the subreddit's they use. At an estimated I'd say ages range from late teens to maybe early thirties at the extremes.
I was looking at the overlaps for femaledatingstrategy today and the toop communities that their users also spent time in were the very unambiguous "datingover30" and "datingover40", which has some very obvious implications.
When I have time, I might put together some more in-depth analysis of this (if someone else doesn't get there first). I do think the internet offers an unparalleled opportunity to analyse what people actually do and the reality of the trade-offs we make in life.

ravenmum · 22/05/2021 15:32

@Gucci1961

Im confused. Why would it be assumed i meant that tongue in cheek?

Because it's an idea that's quickly disproved even just by reading some of the comments on this thread, let alone any other source of information? Or am I missing something very obvious? :)

Gwenhwyfar · 22/05/2021 15:49

"That the competition is very tough and that men (annoyingly) are happy to marry down. "

Why is it annoying that men are happy to marry down? (I presume you mean in terms of class, because marrying a young or pretty women would not really be considered 'down' for men).
The average man earns more than the average women so if they didn't marry women who earn less than them, most would not marry at all.

Gwenhwyfar · 22/05/2021 15:50

"I have an old friend that was determined to marry either a barrister or a doctor. She dated a doctor long term and then married a barrister. Now she complains that the barrister hubby works too hard and is not around enough! A case of being careful what you wish for, even when you are successful in your search for the successful?!"

Well obviously. She could have used some common sense.
I've seen a doctor friend dating and that was enough to put me off. I'd be interested in someone who's actually available to spend time with me.

Gwenhwyfar · 22/05/2021 15:54

"If you were a tall and good-looking guy, you tended to get a lot of attention (not much chance for charming peole with your personality in a dimly lit room, with pounding music drowning out any hope of conversation). Same old, same old."

There was also the "2am choice" though - people who ended up pulling just because they were there at the right time and others had their beer goggles on!

" 80% of the women on the app were only liking the top 20% of men, whilst men had a much greater spread. "

You could probably explain that, rightly or wrongly, with evolution theory i.e. women have to be more fussy with their eggs than men with their sperm. And the fact that men have a greater spread could just as easily be men giving everyone a shot to maximise the chance of a shag rather than actually liking more women.

User135644 · 22/05/2021 15:58

One thing I do notice myself - but don't necessarily share with my single friends (I like them) - is that a lot of them seem to have long lists of "must-have/must-be" points for a guy to be up to standard for them?

So basically, where are all the good looking, wealthy men with great personalities? Married.

Gwenhwyfar · 22/05/2021 16:01

"By 30 the ones who are ready to settle down and have kids are taken. "

None of my male friends were married by the age of 30 and only one of my female friends, who married at 29.

Dervel · 22/05/2021 16:53

Just one observation I’ve had as I’ve always been uncomfortable with this perception women are too picky is that maybe women are too picky when it comes to mate selection, but once they are bonded and committed to a guy they often put up with WAY more than they should. Perhaps they know this and are trying as best they can to avoid that outcome?

Original poster

DadAManger · 22/05/2021 17:02

@Dervel - I agree and think that must be part of it. Let’s face it, it can be very damaging to get into a relationship where you may have not been picky enough but then stay too long. If nothing else, a huge amount of time is wasted as a minimum. Also, if it comes to a serious relationship (as opposed to sex dating), then you are going to want to be sure the person is why they say they are, that they are not a dick (as per a previous poster) and that there is the ability to support children (if that is the stage of life) perhaps etc.

I never meant to imply that we should not all be picky - I wondered why was behind so many very impressive and attractive women finding it hard to meet what they consider to be good quality men IRL or through OLD.

OP posts:

Holowiwi · 22/05/2021 17:08

Imagine a man who is 35, 6 feet tall, keeps himself in good shape, is doing well financially and is confident. Such a man can basically date women from 23 upwards quite easily. Men do not have any problems dating down socioeconomically. They do not prioritise the same qualities women may look for in a man.
And this just a question not an attack but why would such a man date your friends when there are a lot more options available to him?

Honestly some friends of mine that fit this criteria have complained about the quality of women in the UK and have increasingly developing relationships with women from abroad.

I guess there is a disconnect somewhere.

TomPinch · 22/05/2021 17:29

@Gwenhwyfar

"By 30 the ones who are ready to settle down and have kids are taken. "

None of my male friends were married by the age of 30 and only one of my female friends, who married at 29.

But how many weren't in LTR, which is really my point.

Marriage is getting old fashioned these days, it seems.

Oreo01 · 22/05/2021 17:32

@Gwenhwyfar

"If you were a tall and good-looking guy, you tended to get a lot of attention (not much chance for charming peole with your personality in a dimly lit room, with pounding music drowning out any hope of conversation). Same old, same old."

There was also the "2am choice" though - people who ended up pulling just because they were there at the right time and others had their beer goggles on!

" 80% of the women on the app were only liking the top 20% of men, whilst men had a much greater spread. "

You could probably explain that, rightly or wrongly, with evolution theory i.e. women have to be more fussy with their eggs than men with their sperm. And the fact that men have a greater spread could just as easily be men giving everyone a shot to maximise the chance of a shag rather than actually liking more women.

I think there's been studies that show twice as many women have children than men, something like 80/40% which seems to bear out your logic.

I think there is a paradox in that when it comes to 'sex dating' women will have no problem hooking up with men looking on enviously.

Whereas with 'dating dating' this seems to be what women want and not so.much men. So the men ready to commit and prepared to make the effort to go with it are more likely to be successful. Not sure if that's right but women my age are adamant it's harder for them then men.

Gwenhwyfar · 22/05/2021 17:39

"twice as many women have children than men"

Is there a typo there?

"I think there is a paradox in that when it comes to 'sex dating' women will have no problem hooking up with men looking on enviously."

Yes, of course, casual sex is easier to find for a woman, but this is not helpful at all if it's not what you're looking for.
It would not make me happy to know that a younger man or a man who would not consider me girlfriend material would nevertheless be willing to have no-strings with me.

"Whereas with 'dating dating' this seems to be what women want and not so.much men."

I think if they're being honest and not being macho, men want love as much as women do, but they're obviously more fussy about than just for something casual (same as women of course). And also, as others have noted, they have a different 'calendar' and the social pressure to get married has disappeared so there's no reason why they can't stay casual forever if they don't find the perfect person.

Gwenhwyfar · 22/05/2021 17:40

"But how many weren't in LTR, which is really my point.

Marriage is getting old fashioned these days, it seems."

Most of them didn't cohabit in a long term relationship until their thirties either. There's no hurry for men, is there?

TomPinch · 22/05/2021 17:42

There is if you want love, which is what most of my male friends wanted. Why put it off?

TossaCoinToYerWitcher · 22/05/2021 17:56

Whereas with 'dating dating' this seems to be what women want and not so.much men. So the men ready to commit and prepared to make the effort to go with it are more likely to be successful. Not sure if that's right but women my age are adamant it's harder for them then men.

I think this is where things might diverge depending on your age/stage on life though. I was 30 when I met my future wife and ready to commit, so - in theory - I was one of those eligible men who had been "snapped up" for all those 30-something women looking to settle down with someone.

In my early 40s, having started a family, my wife decided she didn't believe in monogamy and wanted to have an open marriage. I didn't. We divorced. After a couple of years healing up and getting over it, I'm now in my mid-forties. I'm still that guy who was eligible and open to commitment - however, I'm under no illusions that a middle-aged co-parenting dad is what those same 30-something women are still looking for!

What people want in a partner pre-kids and pre-forties can vary massively to what someone post-kids and middle-aged may want. I don't want any more kids and want someone who "gets" what my stage of life is like, somost thirty-something single women are out, let alone twenty-somethings! And, to be fair, they (quite reasonably) would consider the same of me!

Gwenhwyfar · 22/05/2021 18:19

"In my early 40s, having started a family, my wife decided she didn't believe in monogamy and wanted to have an open marriage. I didn't. We divorced. After a couple of years healing up and getting over it, I'm now in my mid-forties. I'm still that guy who was eligible and open to commitment - however, I'm under no illusions that a middle-aged co-parenting dad is what those same 30-something women are still looking for!"

There don't seem to be many like you around though. It seems to me that the divorces happen in people's 50s and 60s. I don't see many available men in their 40s.
A man with children would not be ideal for me. Just reading how step-parents are treated on here is enough of a warning, but I wouldn't turn it down either.

Gwenhwyfar · 22/05/2021 18:19

@TomPinch

There is if you want love, which is what most of my male friends wanted. Why put it off?

I think both men and women might put off having children if they could, it's just that women can't risk putting it off too long, not unless they're Naomi Campbell anyway.

Original poster

DadAManger · 22/05/2021 18:24

@gwenhwyfar - you are right. Why the hell didn’t I take Naomi when she pleaded with me to get engaged all those years ago? I could have spent 25 years with her and then had kids at 50...perfect!

OP posts:

Checkingout811 · 22/05/2021 18:26

I held onto mine from school

TomPinch · 22/05/2021 18:28

@Gwenhwyfar

"But how many weren't in LTR, which is really my point.

Marriage is getting old fashioned these days, it seems."

Most of them didn't cohabit in a long term relationship until their thirties either. There's no hurry for men, is there?

I was thinking about this a bit more. A huge proportion of my male friends paired off (with women) at university or FE college or relatively soon after and the vast majority of them are still together, some married, generally with children.

There were others who were more interested in having fun... and that's where they're still at. I just don't see them ever settling in the same way or staying settled.

And I can think of some who settled a bit later (think late 20s / 30s) because they met The One. Whereas my paired-off-at-uni friends were probably much more able to build relationships with all manner of different women and therefore didn't need to find The One.

TomPinch · 22/05/2021 18:33

Gwenhwyfar,

I don't recognise the idea that you might as well put off building a LTR until you're ready to have kids. I think it's a really strange idea and not one that was ever a thing among my male friends.

newnortherner111 · 22/05/2021 19:40

OP did such men ever exist? I wonder if men think the same about women in the UK- I cannot imagine all of them like the TOWIE or Love Island look.

Diamondnights · 22/05/2021 20:19

@Toilenstripes

Too many focus on looks. I married a foreign geek raised to be a gentleman.

The well raised geek can be a very wonderful spouse.