Where did all the good men go in the UK?

[DadAManger]

I am asking this for a friend - really!

I hear over and over now from my single friends over 30 that there is a massive shortfall in good quality men in the UK?

Do MN users and readers agree? What are your own experiences? Many happily married women on here I'm sure, so what's your view?

One thing I do notice myself - but don't necessarily share with my single friends (I like them) - is that a lot of them seem to have long lists of "must-have/must-be" points for a guy to be up to standard for them?

If she's a lawyer however, she's already got a small pool of men who.are as or more "successful" .. her pool would be bigger if she were willing to consider men who are not as high earning but appeal to her and see decent partners.

*seem like decent partners.

I know two or three women who out earn and have more prestigious jobs than their partners. But they clearly think they are good partners, and they bring other things to the table.

In purely financial terms, one is from a farming background, which had the fortuitous provision of a free site in the countryside for their house, gifted by his family.

They also can earn extra in their (sort of tradesman level) jobs doing "home-ers" ; just depends how much work they want to take on in their free time).

They also clearly have character traits that are attractive in a partner - faithful, stable etc.

I think this is probably true, in every cohort, those men that want to settle/ have families tend to do so in late 20’s early 30’s.

That was my experience, most of my Uni mates with good Career prospects were married by 30 with kids on the way, the only ones not married by about 32/33 were just never going to.

@JustAnotherOldMan

I think this is probably true, in every cohort, those men that want to settle/ have families tend to do so in late 20’s early 30’s.

That was my experience, most of my Uni mates with good Career prospects were married by 30 with kids on the way, the only ones not married by about 32/33 were just never going to.

I agree with this. But given the divorce statistics are almost 50%, I can only conclude that these mostly happen at 50yo plus from the standard of men below this age on OLD! Because if half of marriages end in divorce, there should be a fair few of those decent ones back on the market?

@FourTeaFallOut

I think most of the good ones get mopped up in their twenties and after that it's like looking for a decent item that actually fits in a next sale.

Ha ha! That is it.

@Misty9
I would say so, I’m one of those divorced men, but in my 40’s I found it hard to find a ‘decent’ match as most were married or busy bringing up children, so the numbers were not in my favour

But strangely enough now I’m 50 +, the number of available matches in my cohort seems to be rising (for me at least), which I suppose is the divorced women coming back onto the market.

I bagged a good one, they do exist but you need to be flexible and cast your net widely

I think many people don't understand human psychology very well, and also their own needs.

Women wanting a high earning, high flyer also then expect him to have loads of time, help out around the house and be extremely emotionally available. But someone who is successful has put his career first, and will have a certain type of personality that enables him to survive in a cut throat career. And it's likely not one that's always sensitive. The same way high earning women will have certain quirks someone in a more nurturing role may not have.

Men tend to be much better (i find) on figuring out what the compromises are, and not expecting to find everything in their partner. 'Good' is such an arbitrary man. Is someone who is an alpha male with the empathy of a flea more good than someone who is in a less high flying career who is more sensitive?

More women need to be clear on what they really need in a man. Do you want someone who will help you maintain a certain lifestyle? Do you want someone who support YOUR career? Do you want someone who will be an equal partner in managing the house? Do you want someone who will allow you to be a SAHM? Do you want someone you can do your hobbies with? Do you want someone who is proactive in family life? And so on. You won't get it all in one man - it's just not scientifically possible.

The good men do exist, you just need to define what 'good' looks like to you, and not a generic checklist of things you may not need but the media tells you you do.

@JustAnotherOldMan I'll have to hang on for ten years then it seems! 😭

Because the good ones are married with wives making bloody sure they stick around because having read all about the crap men on here know when they have a good one. proviso that doesn't mean they can't drive you up the bloody wall with really annoying habits, just that you realise not to sweat the small stuff.

@wanadu2022 this isnt true either. I didnt want a rich man as money = power (which can be abused). Also at 5'1" i wasnt hoping or even wanting a tall man. My only standard if you l8ke was that he not be too much older. I was not succesful OLD. I feel those men roughly my own age were killing time while they looked for a relationship with somebody younger, who they would have or did want to commit to.

I feel the only solution for women who really want to be with somebody is to accept that they will need to date down. But then if you compromise too much you dont want to have sex, and that is not the answer either really.

@JustAnotherOldMan

I think this is probably true, in every cohort, those men that want to settle/ have families tend to do so in late 20’s early 30’s.

That was my experience, most of my Uni mates with good Career prospects were married by 30 with kids on the way, the only ones not married by about 32/33 were just never going to.

Yes and I think this applies to men and women. I met DH at 30 but now 5 years later my single friends (male and female) are all still single.

I think it depends on the man's situation and stage of life.

I'm 40, divorced and have kids. I've found OLD has made it easier to meet women and I've certainly had more interest than I did in my 20s as I think I have the qualities that are desired at my age in terms of stability, job, own place etc.

I feel like I was shafted in my long term relationship and could never see myself commiting to a new one in the same way, at least in the amount of compromise needed. Once you've been through it once you are quite reluctant to get too deeply involved although I certainly would be interested in a long term relationship with the right person if they had realistic expectations (which from my experience at least has been an issue).

I don't know if the issue for women is that the 'good men' broadly speaking have their own place/ shit together and are more likely to be avoidants (due to past experience) and hence the pool of men out there isn't that desirable.

There's also something in women being attracted to a certain type of man which is quite evolutionary. At least in my experience as for example I've worked with men that are known as a bit sleazy but they fit a certain demographic and will always be highly desired.

@wanadu2022

I think many people don't understand human psychology very well, and also their own needs.

Women wanting a high earning, high flyer also then expect him to have loads of time, help out around the house and be extremely emotionally available. But someone who is successful has put his career first, and will have a certain type of personality that enables him to survive in a cut throat career. And it's likely not one that's always sensitive. The same way high earning women will have certain quirks someone in a more nurturing role may not have.

Men tend to be much better (i find) on figuring out what the compromises are, and not expecting to find everything in their partner. 'Good' is such an arbitrary man. Is someone who is an alpha male with the empathy of a flea more good than someone who is in a less high flying career who is more sensitive?

More women need to be clear on what they really need in a man. Do you want someone who will help you maintain a certain lifestyle? Do you want someone who support YOUR career? Do you want someone who will be an equal partner in managing the house? Do you want someone who will allow you to be a SAHM? Do you want someone you can do your hobbies with? Do you want someone who is proactive in family life? And so on. You won't get it all in one man - it's just not scientifically possible.

The good men do exist, you just need to define what 'good' looks like to you, and not a generic checklist of things you may not need but the media tells you you do.

Good post. I would say quite accurate.

I'm doing OND just now
Men tell me my age group ( 54) want
A tall man
With his shit together
No baggage
Money ... in that order

I'm actually just looking for an independent man with his shit together , care nothing about his bank balance or history .. we all have one !

It's a brutal minefield and I've cancelled my subscription
How else do you do this ? I'm a nurse so all my career I've met plenty .. they either too young or too old too pompous or too up themselves
Might just get a goldfish

I’ve been single for many years. The last time I got asked out was by a colleague, maybe 15 years ago now?

I turned him down. It is something I kick myself for. I was new to the job and not sure if his intentions were entirely honourable. I was just out of a bad relationship and was licking my wounds.

They were honourable. A more straight up, gentle, kind man you could never meet. Of course someone else saw him and he was off the market.

I couldn’t be happier for him. 6 more months down the line and it might have been different.

I’ve resigned myself to being single now (arse of cow/face of camel) but I would very much like companionship if nothing else.

If I went on some dating app, I’d get all the ones flapping their jewels about or someone scoping my potential pension 🥴

@MrsTerryPratchett

I married a foreigner. I can thoroughly recommend it

Same! 🤣

There never was any

50%+ of ladies are only wanting guys in the top 10% (successful commercial lawyers, doctors, C-level guys)?

I think this is broadly true. Millions of years of evolution have made women choosy about their partners, so there is enormous competition for the top 10% of high-status men.

That inevitably leaves a lot of women who feel they are being forced to ‘settle’ when the top 10% are taken and they have to choose from the other 90% of men.

@JustAnotherOldMan

I think this is probably true, in every cohort, those men that want to settle/ have families tend to do so in late 20’s early 30’s.

That was my experience, most of my Uni mates with good Career prospects were married by 30 with kids on the way, the only ones not married by about 32/33 were just never going to.

Those of my single mates who were not married by 35 never really wanted to be.

@Susie477 - this is what my friends are saying. That the competition is very tough and that men (annoyingly) are happy to marry down. Many (not all for sure) women do not want to do that - they want to bag the best they can (fairly enough) or at least a man at the same ‘level’ as them. This leaves a lot of women chasing the top 10% and a lot of men with options that are wider than that somehow.

Not settling is absolutely fine - but some posters here seem to regret not taking opportunities when they had them or are concerned they will miss out in companionship at least, at least as they mature a bit more.

I have an old friend that was determined to marry either a barrister or a doctor. She dated a doctor long term and then married a barrister. Now she complains that the barrister hubby works too hard and is not around enough! A case of being careful what you wish for, even when you are successful in your search for the successful?!

.

@Susie477

50%+ of ladies are only wanting guys in the top 10% (successful commercial lawyers, doctors, C-level guys)?

I think this is broadly true. Millions of years of evolution have made women choosy about their partners, so there is enormous competition for the top 10% of high-status men.

That inevitably leaves a lot of women who feel they are being forced to ‘settle’ when the top 10% are taken and they have to choose from the other 90% of men.

So are we saying here this is fundamentally a female issue. As society becomes broadly more egalitarian (leave aside specifics) we are placing more value on women and less on men. Women become more successful, which of course must be at the expense of men. Men in turn succeed less and hence there are less 'good men'. As whilst society changes the values of what is considered a good man doesn't.

So are we saying here this is fundamentally a female issue. As society becomes broadly more egalitarian (leave aside specifics) we are placing more value on women and less on men. Women become more successful, which of course must be at the expense of men. Men in turn succeed less and hence there are less 'good men'. As whilst society changes the values of what is considered a good man doesn't.

I think the infamous Tinder research is partly to blame for this rationalisation - where they revealed something like 80% of the women on the app were only liking the top 20% of men, whilst men had a much greater spread. And that women who used the app actually rated 80% of the men on there as "undesirable" - not even "meh". Again, men tended to rate average female attractiveness much higher. I know reading that certainly put me off using OLD, as a man.

That said, I think the OLD experience does skew how we go about picking a partner, so I'm not sure if such choosiness holds water for those meeting in reality. And you might find different results for a different app - Tinder does have a bit of a shallow reputation, after all. It might be akin to researching dating choices in a nightclub in the pre-OLD days, when many went out "on the pull". If you were a tall and good-looking guy, you tended to get a lot of attention (not much chance for charming peole with your personality in a dimly lit room, with pounding music drowning out any hope of conversation). Same old, same old.

I do think that if men put as much care into their online dating profile photos as women this would balance those stats out a bit. So many of the photos make the men look terrible - and that's what they've chosen as the best one?! I'd much rather meet someone irl, but it's how...