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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

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Original poster

When does a friendship become an affair?

288 replies

misshavershamsweddingdress · 17/05/2021 11:50

I have been married for nearly 18 years, 2 DC, lovely home, lifestyle, good and kind husband (!) etc etc. But he has a female friend he has known for much longer than me, on and off over many years, periods of not being in touch and I think they have had a physical relationship at some point in the distant past (not completely sure). In the past two years his contact with her has become more frequent, at least every other day, if not daily and he won't let me see the messages they send to each other. Occasionally he will lock the bathroom door and I can hear talking from him but nothing in reply. At what point is this friendship more than that? Is it already?

OP posts:

Flossie44 · 20/05/2021 18:05

I would definitely be tempted to send them both the explicit photos. As a group chat. They will feel incredibly embarrassed. The OW will hate the fact that you’ve seen that!!

workshy44 · 20/05/2021 18:21

I think you should message the photos back to her. I really don't understand when people say the women in these situations carries no blame. She is texting naked photos to a married man!!
The whole thing is outrageous, no more so than his "response"
He has zero respect for you op and is blinded by lust and "what could have been" with the OW
I don't see anyway this can survive with your dignity intact I'm fafraidact

lonelyplanetmum · 20/05/2021 18:44

I don't think that people say the women in these situations carry no blame, just that as far as the H is concerned he carries more towards the OP as it's that bond and those promises that have been broken.

Roadtohades · 20/05/2021 19:58

TheStirrer · 20/05/2021 23:17

Thinking of you tonight OP and sending you a hug.

Onthedunes · 20/05/2021 23:23

Hope you are ok

IVFhadenough · 21/05/2021 00:11

Ugh. Just read this entire thread.

Everyone else has given such fantastic advice and support. Just wanted to send you lots of love OP!

Stay strong and know your worth. You can do better 👊🏼

Original poster

misshavershamsweddingdress · 21/05/2021 09:23

I'm sorry for being so quiet on here but I am reading all of your comments and your support has brought tears to my eyes. I've not told anyone irl yet so this space here is really important to me - thank you.
There's nothing much further to report. he came home yesterday, I don't know where he went. He won't back down from the 'good friends' line no matter that I have asked him if he would be happy for me to have a 'good friend'. She is still messaging him but I'm not sure how regularly he is replying. I'm not seeing any remorse from him yet and I'm still not sure whay my next move will be. I'm taking my time to get a few things sorted. I'm not going to contact her, at the moment, she can have him if she wants him that badly.

OP posts:

SwimBaby · 21/05/2021 09:31

Thank you for updating us, I’m thinking of you a lot of the time. I’m so sorry to read you are going through this.

Popandhop · 21/05/2021 09:35

honey, he will still be regularly replying, he has made it clear he has no intention to stop as she's just a "good friend"

Would it be worth a small break? so you can both get your heads straight to decide what you both want.

You asked him to choose between you and her, and he has chosen to carry on his "friendship" so I would definitely say he's made his choice.

I hope you all the best

Freeme31 · 21/05/2021 09:42

Have you shown him "what constitutes an EA" list is on internet? What makes him think he is not? He must see that he is having one and has to stop to save his marriage

olympicsrock · 21/05/2021 09:44

So sorry . I think it’s ultimatum time. He is having a mid life crisis. You can’t tolerate this. It is disrespectful to you.

sunrayscome · 21/05/2021 09:59

I would not be able to get over the explicit messages and visuals. Every time he goes to the bathroom I would be feeling so torn inside. I split up from my partner ( he was cheating behind my back ) he wanted to remain friends and still spend time with me but I did the decent thing and told him it would not be fare on his new partner - if the OW knows how hurt you are she needs to step back and cut the friendship off as it is not a friendship now - it has moved on to a sexual explicit level

Chamomileteaplease · 21/05/2021 09:59

Well done for talking to him .

I think it is a classic situation - life gets a bit boring after a while, wife, kids, work, repeat. She's the one that got away. Fantasy creeps in. He knows he can't really have a proper relationship with her due to distance, kids etc so he wants to have his cake and eat it .

I am sorry to say that I imagine she brings a lot of joy to his life and he can't imagine not having that. He needs to realise that he either puts all his effort into his relationship with you or he leaves.

Does he really think that he should be allowed to have an EA, which includes sending each other explicit photos and still remain married to you?? The mind boggles.

I wish you continued strength in sorting this out. Keep posting .

wanadu2022 · 21/05/2021 10:09

Hi OP, I'm so sorry you're going through this. It's really good you're managing to keep a cool head and think of what you want to do. As someone else said, you are in control now of whatever decision you make, having all the information.

As a last ditch effort to get it through this head, could you maybe show him this description of Emotional Affair on Relate? So he can see it's not a concept you've made up, but one that is acknowledged formally to be a relationship breaker.
www.relate.org.uk/blog/2015/7/28/whats-emotional-affair

This stance he's taken makes any discussion difficult. Almost like accepting your view that it's an inappropriate friendship makes him guilty. Is he normally good at accepting fault and apologising? Or does he always try and dodge blame?

I think you should ask that he leave home while you figure out what you need to do. Suggest a trial separation because you cannot live with someone who is happy to cause you anxiety and distress by prioritising a friendship over your marriage. Your kids need a happy mum and a happy home environment. He seems to have no fear of you leaving him and what he needs to see is that you're serious.

Whatever you do, don't choose to live with allowing this to carry on. It will destroy all your self esteem and no marriage is worth that. It's already toxic for you to see her messages come in whether or not he's replying. She has invaded your safe space, your home. Ask him to leave so you can reclaim your home without either of them ruining your peace. Find your anger. I know you hate confrontation but he's using that against you by thinking you're a push over. 2 years is a long time for them to have carried on like you don't exist. Don't allow them any more time.

You are strong and will get through this! But dear god, he's a shit for putting you through this.

Faevern · 21/05/2021 10:28

Does he think its ok to send explicit photos to friends? I wonder how many other friends he shares photos with? None I would guess. By not taking responsibility he is avoiding confrontation, shutting you down, leaving all of the decisions up to you, which is hard, and so he's hoping you wont push it. Gather your strength, whatever you decide wont be easy. Good luck.

Onthedunes · 21/05/2021 10:42

He is also relying on you keeping this a secret frorm others. Once you seek support from others is when pandora's box opens and he will probably become angry.

Do not let him bully you into accepting this, you have asked nicely for him to stop, he is ignoring you.
You are completely right to demand all communication with her stops.

He is also relying on the fact you will not contact her, he will not like you pricking her concience about this, do not let him protect her.

You have effectively been put in a no win situation where he is calling the shots, he has shut you down and you must be feeling so frustrated and upset that he has chosen her.

You must act at some point, gather your strength and think about the next moves, he is being a complete twat and a terrible husband.
x

crackingcrackers · 21/05/2021 10:45

Again, I'm so sorry that it's gone this way. But the simple fact is that he doesn't care that he's hurting you. You've told him that he's causing you pain and distress and he's said he won't stop. It's heartbreaking, but you'll disappear if you stay with someone like that. I wish you all the strength possible to get through this horrible time. This man is not worthy of you.

TheStirrer · 21/05/2021 10:50

Oh I am so sad to hear this OP. As others have mentioned “friends” do not send each other explicit material and it sounds like he wants you to make the decisions so that he is not the bad guy.
Can I ask how old your children are? I think I would be getting my ducks in a row and booking a hotel / visiting relatives and leave him with all the drudgery so he can see what life would be like without you. It will also stop him pootling off to see her and have to explain what is happening to family.
Sending you a massive hug - he’s truly shitty and you deserve so much more

crackingcrackers · 21/05/2021 10:50

But you're right in that you should take your time to get things sorted and move at your own pace. Just do your best not to let him make you feel even more miserable. Please try to talk to someone irl as well. And please don't think that this is your fault in anyway. He's a selfish man.

TheStirrer · 21/05/2021 10:53

I would also tell someone close in real life as a proper hug and tea is what you need now to get you through this.

Covert19 · 21/05/2021 11:05

Does his refusal to address his behaviour make your decision easier misshaversham? If he was grovelling and promising it would never happen again, you'd have to decide whether you could ever trust him enough to continue in the marriage. As it is, you know you are married to an adulterer, and one who will not stop, even when caught in the act. He's making this very clear and that should make your way forward clear too.

Sod whether he tells people it was your decision to end the relationship. You can tell them he expected you to live with him sexting another woman - nobody in their right mind would accept this in a marriage.

He'll wake up one day and realise just how much he's thrown away. But it is he who has done it, not you. You have to act to maintain your self-respect. You might be hesitating to go nuclear because of the impact on your children. The damage to your children is all of his making, and I don't think you can avoid it. You can no longer give them the stable family they need, because he has destabilised it. Him. But what you can give them is a lesson that their Mum is a woman of honour and dignity, and show them how to survive the most awful setback imaginable. They will overcome the pain of this and they will benefit from seeing you handle yourself well.

I am so angry on your behalf. What a shit he is. Throwing away a wonderful family for some cheap thrills in the bathroom. Sad.

Newbie202012 · 21/05/2021 12:15

@misshavershamsweddingdress I'm so sorry op I just want to say that you sound amazing you've got this!! your stronger than you think !! Dont let him make you think it's your fault !! To be honest I think if you contacted his so called female friend for answers and ask her to stop she wouldnt feel any guilt and will probely carry on because if she had morels she wouldnt of kept incontact with your hubby n sending them pics ,this is abit dramatic but despite times means desperate measures but this is what I'd do if you did end up contacting her I'd personally make her feel like shit the only thing what is going to hurt her is hurting her pride shes obviously confident to send naked pics so I'd degrade her with that I'd laugh at her on the phone saying her pics are hanging and nothing to b proud off n say your going to show everyone, she will think twice then about sending pics like that to your hubby she will shit her self wondering if her pics are going to be spread about, let her think that , it may even make her back off because she wont want it getting out that's shes a dirty tramp , I'd brake his fone after i spoken to her because if you said that she be contacting him for reassurance and if his fone is off she will go in full blown panic mode wondering if hes sided with you and that's hes ignoring her and even when he did manage to contact her she will have that many doubts and insecurities she might hopefully think hes not worth it I'm sorry that your hubby is keeping in contact with her that is heartbreaking knowing everytime he looks at his fone wondering if it's her, you hubby is a total bastard putting u through this he and his female friend has got me so angry and I really feel for you , xx

bigbaggyeyes · 21/05/2021 12:22

I agree with some pp, you should tell someone in real life, get some long overdue support and care from someone.

I'm sure your dh won't mind you telling, or showing people what's he's been doing, after all they are 'just good friends' and he's done nothing wrong

JesusIsAnyNameFree · 21/05/2021 12:26

@Onthedunes