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Original poster

When does a friendship become an affair?

288 replies

misshavershamsweddingdress · 17/05/2021 11:50

I have been married for nearly 18 years, 2 DC, lovely home, lifestyle, good and kind husband (!) etc etc. But he has a female friend he has known for much longer than me, on and off over many years, periods of not being in touch and I think they have had a physical relationship at some point in the distant past (not completely sure). In the past two years his contact with her has become more frequent, at least every other day, if not daily and he won't let me see the messages they send to each other. Occasionally he will lock the bathroom door and I can hear talking from him but nothing in reply. At what point is this friendship more than that? Is it already?

OP posts:
Phoenix121 · 20/05/2021 09:52

@lonelyplanetmum

that I can't ask him to choose between a friendship and a relationship

Errr yes you can if they're sending each other naked pictures ( and videos). How would he respond if you had been doing that?

The problem is that he needs to show remorse, understand and take full responsibility for the hurt. But from reading MN and my own experience how often does that happen.

Agreed, although when they perhaps do start to feel remorse, it is only after a period of time, which can take months. He needs to be aware of the consequences of his actions. He obviously does not yet understand how hurt you are, OP.

What utter BS he spouts about being made to 'choose' between a friendship and his marriage. That would cut me deeply. I would be tempted at that point to say 'ok then', shrug, and proceed to find myself a great many male 'friends'... the twat.

crackingcrackers · 20/05/2021 09:59

It is an affair. They've been sending reciprocal sexual messages to each other.
Of course you don't want your H to continue his relationship with the woman he is having an affair with. Calling it a friendship is simply an oily way of minimising it.

He's carved out chunks of time he could have been with you and/or the kids, either helping or enjoying each other, to send videos and pictures to this woman and then get off on the ones she's sent to him. Or they've been on live video calls doing it. In your home. That is pure and utter disrespect of you and your life together. Whatever slick tactics and words he comes out with to try to diminish his pathetic and actions, please do let him. If he wants to stay with you and you don't want to be in a relationship with a man who is cheating then course she can't stay in his life. He can't have it both ways.

Did he show any remorse?

I'm so sorry that it's gone this way.

Jonjojobs123 · 20/05/2021 10:00

Its an inappropriate friendship

The defining trait of any marriage is its exclusivity. The trust, care, warmth and importance that you share with your partner would be higher in degree than what you would share with others. Creating the same bond with someone else means you are breaking the connection with your spouse. And this can be the first step towards cheating.

Close friendships with the opposite sex can become troublesome when they come as a shock or surprise to your current partner. By introducing them to your husband or wife, you are cutting out any scope of suspicion. Your conscience should be clear that you do not share any inappropriate friendships with anyone.

Freeme31 · 20/05/2021 10:01

This is an emotional affair. Show him evidence from the internet "what constitutes an EA" hopefully he will recognise he is having an affair and stop and work on his marriage.

wanadu2022 · 20/05/2021 10:02

Ah OP it doesn't matter what the other woman thinks, feels, wants.

What matters is your husband is inconsiderate, clearly attracted to this woman, sexting her and refusing to give her up. I did think he'd deny it because there's no physical cheating yet. The marriage is over I'm afraid. Because he's obviously lost all respect for you and the institution of commitment, and telling you he's going to carry on sexting a woman he is attracted to. His head has gone with her.

The audacity!

Throw. Him. Out. Be prepared he will not go without a fight. So talk to a solicitor and close friends and family who can support you.

An affair can only be gotten over when the offending party see their mistake and is remorseful, wanting to save the marriage. It feels like he's already checked out and goading you into pulling the trigger so he doesn't have to. Then he can blame you for the split to your children and social network. "Mummy split with me over a FRIENDSHIP".

And if you don't he gets the best of both worlds. So it's a clever tactic from him.

crackingcrackers · 20/05/2021 10:03

Obviously I meant, please do NOT let him!

lonelyplanetmum · 20/05/2021 10:28

It feels like he's already checked out and goading you into pulling the trigger so he doesn't have to. Then he can blame you for the split to your children and social network. "Mummy split with me over a FRIENDSHIP".

I think this rewriting of narratives is very true. He checked out of the marriage...he didn't work on your relationship..he pursued 'friendships' that were hostile to the marriage.

Why the hell doesn't he (and the countless men before him) take responsibility. Call it as it is, say he was bored, or she's overwhelmingly attractive, or I wanted some excitement... or whatever the true reason is - why don't men in this situation man up to it?

StartupRepair · 20/05/2021 10:35

You can choose not to be in a marriage where he is putting his energy into a connection with someone else.

Tal45 · 20/05/2021 10:35

I'd send her all the stuff you've kept to shame her and then tell her she is welcome to him. Hopefully she won't want to be involved in that mess and he will lose both of you. People say it's not about her but she shouldn't be sending nudes to a married man. How dare he keep stringing you along as his security blanket while investing all his time and emotion into her.

noblegreenk · 20/05/2021 10:35

I really feel for you OP. You're not making him choose between a friendship and a relationship, you're making him choose between his relationship with you and the OW. I know how complicated your feelings will be on this matter, as I've been through similar myself but kids weren't involved. If I were you I'd try and get legal advice to see where you stand. You deserve so much better. I wish I hadn't forgiven my husband, he was very remorseful and did everything to get me to stay. But it's tainted our relationship ever since and I still don't fully trust him 5 years on. You may think you can move on from this but the reality of actually doing that is much harder. He's a complete dog, messaging her and sending pics from your bathroom with his family just the other side of the door! These kind of posts, where they don't even seem to show any remorse for their behaviour make me so angry.

wanadu2022 · 20/05/2021 10:38

@lonelyplanetmum I think it's so they don't have to be the bad guy to friends, family and DC. They don't want to be the one that broke up their family because they were attracted to another woman or were having an emotional affair.

And it's because they know there is a chance the constant denial will have their partner doubt their own mind, and stay - in which case they can have their cake and eat it too.

Gringlewald · 20/05/2021 11:03

Just to say, you seem to be handling this brilliantly. Keep taking your time, thinking things through and planning your next move carefully. Headspace/fresh air/exercise will all help to clear any clouds from your judgement. You are totally in control of what happens next.

Dasher789 · 20/05/2021 11:06

i am in shock that he thinks it is okay to expect you to be fine with him continuing to stay in touch with OW???!

Houseofvelour · 20/05/2021 11:16

Omg he's actually stupid. Like seriously where the fuck is his brain?
How could he possibly think that what he's doing is ok??

Leave leave leave.
It'll only escalate.

mermaidsariel · 20/05/2021 11:42

This situation is disgusting. He’s disgusting. I just couldn’t be with a man who did this to me. He’s selfish, stupid and doesn’t deserve you. Let him have his ‘friendship’. You take the house and get a divorce going ASAP. Let the stupid woman have him. He’ll soon realise what an arsehole he’s been and it will be too late.

ShaaaaaalAhLah · 20/05/2021 12:05

im quite shocked to think he has even said that you are making him choose between a friendship and relationship. Clearly its not a friendship when you have crossed the line. Don't let him disrespect your relationship and most importantly YOU! what would he have done if you did the same thing to him?

His Selfish, to be in a relationship you need to be selfless, it seems his happy to entertain two women at the same time.

Standrewsschool · 20/05/2021 12:08

How does he justify the explicit messages? Can he not see that’s wrong?

JudyGemstone · 20/05/2021 13:12

I wouldn’t even bother wasting your time trying to get him to agree that it’s unacceptable. You know it’s unacceptable, bollocks to what he thinks.

If this isn’t something you can tolerate then you tell him that and ask him to leave. It’s about your boundaries, no one else’s.

Anotheruser02 · 20/05/2021 13:23

He is determined not to see it, he will always have the narrative that they haven't slept together to minimise the betrayal. You both know he wouldn't accept the situation the other way around, but to ask him the question would be so hypothetical he could easily agree that you could if you wanted.

Robin233 · 20/05/2021 14:28

From your update it sounds like you've put in respectable boundaries for yourself.
He won't like it but you've made your stand.
Female friends are fine , but this is an ex.
Total different territory.

Onthedunes · 20/05/2021 15:55

I agree with @wanadu2022

He is denying all wrong doing and waiting for you to kick him out so he can pursue being single, and playing the victim at the same time.

If he thinks there is nothing wrong with his behaviour would he be upset if you forwarded on their corespondence for others to judge?

You have choices too, tell him you don't wish to just be his housekeeper whist he gets his emotional support from another woman.
Firstly drop all wifey duties, no sex, no washing, ironing, cleaning, cooking for him, no sorting life admin outfor him. She can do it, or his mommy.

If he leaves book a solicitors appointment, tell him you will name her in the divorce.
Re send her pictures back to her, let her know you have proof of their friendship. Awful woman, knowingly using another married man to inflate her ego after her separation, the worst kind of woman.

I know you are hurting so much and you just want things to return to normal at this stage, but you are wishing to be comforted by the evil bastard who made you feel bad. Any sympathy will not come from him, please confide in anyone but him.
He is your enemy.

Newbie202012 · 20/05/2021 16:13

I totally agree with @Phrowzunn
She’s obviously his ‘one that got away’ and he fantasises about what his life would have been like had they got together. She’s the greener grass. What an absolute test. He needs to grow the fuck up. You are SO MUCH BETTER than being his old ball and chain, keeping him from this perfect amazing life he could have had with this ‘dream woman’

sending naked pics to each other is definitely an affair if she lived in your area guaranteed it would be physical
Admitting to you there is a physical attraction hes admitting he wants her and her him
Saying you cant make him choose a relationship or friendship is a descrace you've giving him 18+ years and kids that is worth more than any friendship.
Hes trying to manipulate u into accepting the situation so he can have best of both worlds DONT do it it's wrong and u deserve better , Iyou should defintly get your finances in order just incase the marriage ends , I hope everything works out for you and he realizes how much of a prick he has been and spends the rest of your lifes making it up to up , but to be honest I dont think hes going to let this woman go

MadMadMadamMim · 20/05/2021 16:23

I still want to message her and ask her what the hell they were playing at but I won't, not yet anyway.

Don't do this. In the nicest possible way she owes you fuck all. You are nothing and nobody to her.

He's the one to ask what the hell was he playing at.

Sitchervice · 20/05/2021 16:42

I think you should ask her. Your not going to get anything from your other half. He's buried his head in the NOPE sand

MsDogLady · 20/05/2021 17:20

Friends don’t exchange masturbatory material. Your H is taking you for a fool by expecting you to accept that guff.

This is an emotional and sexual affair. His priority is OW, which he has proven by his repeated lying/minimizing and his refusal to give her up in the face of your distress.

This situation is unsustainable, OP. Walk away now or you will become diminished beyond recognition and your children will be exposed to a toxic relationship model.