When does a friendship become an affair?

[misshavershamsweddingdress]

I have been married for nearly 18 years, 2 DC, lovely home, lifestyle, good and kind husband (!) etc etc. But he has a female friend he has known for much longer than me, on and off over many years, periods of not being in touch and I think they have had a physical relationship at some point in the distant past (not completely sure). In the past two years his contact with her has become more frequent, at least every other day, if not daily and he won't let me see the messages they send to each other. Occasionally he will lock the bathroom door and I can hear talking from him but nothing in reply. At what point is this friendship more than that? Is it already?

Hi OP, just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you too x

@leopardandspots. I think you hit the nail on the head- when these guys get caught (and they aren’t all utter arseholes to us all the time) they know full well we know exactly what they are like— and can’t hack the fact we no longer have them on a pedestal

It already sounds like an affair.

To discuss with him : "When does your relationship with X become our divorce".

How are you doing op?

@leopardandspots

For me full disclosure is the key from him

Yes it’s an emotional affair. and although disclosure is one aspect, there's more than that too.
Its about disclosure, transparency and genuine remorse. It’s about not minimising what happened. It’s about genuinely understanding the pain amd feelings of betrayal and anxiety. It’s about understanding what it means to have the safety and security jettisoned from your marriage, leaving hypervigilance, always being on the alert for signs that something similar is happening again.

Each case is different but there seem to be some similar themes. I threw my DH out for three months after hidden messages and secret meetings with his ex. but he always thought I was overreacting. Years later the legacy was still there and a significant factor that led to us separating. The fact that he preferred to keep his ‘friend’ and other stuff secret from me was just too corrosive.

My friend said to me that because I knew what exH was like, I became like his mirror, and ultimately he just didn’t like me knowing what I knew of his shabby deceptions , even if I had tried very hard not to mention it, he didn't like me knowing how he'd behaved.

Excellent post.

Agreed @Onthedunes, @leopardandspots that was a great post.

I read somewhere else only a few days ago that this mechanism is also how an affair functions.

It went something like this:

The affair partner acts like a vanity mirror, their attention and flattery reflect back the betraying partner’s most attractive and desirable self, feeding a cycle of feeling good about themselves. Their betrayed partner reflects back their real self, because they know the ‘real’ them, rather than the sparkly new version of themselves they are portraying to the affair partner.
This feeds a cycle of comparisons between the affair partner and betrayed partner, where the affair partner appears to really ‘get’ them and appears to completely understand them, (i.e gives off exactly what they need to see about themselves, true or not, referred to aptly as “Ego Kibbles” on the Chumplady website ) whereas the betrayed partner, despite being completely in the dark about the affair, inadvertently becomes a source of guilt and annoyance (the one who actually ‘gets’ and understands the real them) and reminds them of who they actually are. They thus become an ego deflator and source of resentment and irritation.

The affair partner reflects a fantasy life with no responsibilities, a life centred on themselves on a pedestal. This life is only about them and the fulfilment of their desires.
The betrayed partner reflects back to them their responsibilities, their true ‘known’ self, warts and all, and reflects back their wrongdoing, guilt and shame.
Their affair partner thus makes them feel like King and their spouse cannot ever compare favourably during the affair. One gives off reflections to inflate the ego and the other gives off reflections of responsibilities neglected and love betrayed.

On discovery more often than not, a good dose of reality kicks everything into touch. It forces them off Fantasy Island.

If the betrayer is prepared to fully face reality and therefore the real them, then they might finally appreciate the one who loved them for who they really are and see the value of that kind of love.

Sadly the betrayal can be too much for the betrayed partner to take, or their partner’s epiphany can have come too late and the relationship is over.

Some ‘talk the talk’ of remorse and of personal growth, but can still never face who they really are. They continue to find anyone who might reflect that truth back at themselves an irritant, so even though they re-commit to their primary relationship, over time the relationship corrodes.

If a person can’t face themselves, if they won’t do anything to try to be a better person, if they don’t appreciate their good fortune to have someone who loves them for who they really are, then you are better off without them.

Until they do, they will never change their ego-inflating coping behaviours. In all likelihood they will probably repeat their destructive pattern with someone else.

@Thewookiemustgo

Agreed *@Onthedunes, @leopardandspots* that was a great post.

I read somewhere else only a few days ago that this mechanism is also how an affair functions.

It went something like this:

The affair partner acts like a vanity mirror, their attention and flattery reflect back the betraying partner’s most attractive and desirable self, feeding a cycle of feeling good about themselves. Their betrayed partner reflects back their real self, because they know the ‘real’ them, rather than the sparkly new version of themselves they are portraying to the affair partner.
This feeds a cycle of comparisons between the affair partner and betrayed partner, where the affair partner appears to really ‘get’ them and appears to completely understand them, (i.e gives off exactly what they need to see about themselves, true or not, referred to aptly as “Ego Kibbles” on the Chumplady website ) whereas the betrayed partner, despite being completely in the dark about the affair, inadvertently becomes a source of guilt and annoyance (the one who actually ‘gets’ and understands the real them) and reminds them of who they actually are. They thus become an ego deflator and source of resentment and irritation.

The affair partner reflects a fantasy life with no responsibilities, a life centred on themselves on a pedestal. This life is only about them and the fulfilment of their desires.
The betrayed partner reflects back to them their responsibilities, their true ‘known’ self, warts and all, and reflects back their wrongdoing, guilt and shame.
Their affair partner thus makes them feel like King and their spouse cannot ever compare favourably during the affair. One gives off reflections to inflate the ego and the other gives off reflections of responsibilities neglected and love betrayed.

On discovery more often than not, a good dose of reality kicks everything into touch. It forces them off Fantasy Island.

If the betrayer is prepared to fully face reality and therefore the real them, then they might finally appreciate the one who loved them for who they really are and see the value of that kind of love.

Sadly the betrayal can be too much for the betrayed partner to take, or their partner’s epiphany can have come too late and the relationship is over.

Some ‘talk the talk’ of remorse and of personal growth, but can still never face who they really are. They continue to find anyone who might reflect that truth back at themselves an irritant, so even though they re-commit to their primary relationship, over time the relationship corrodes.

If a person can’t face themselves, if they won’t do anything to try to be a better person, if they don’t appreciate their good fortune to have someone who loves them for who they really are, then you are better off without them.

Until they do, they will never change their ego-inflating coping behaviours. In all likelihood they will probably repeat their destructive pattern with someone else.

That's a great post too Wookie very interesting.

Do you know all that could partially explain why some parents lose or reduce contact after a split. Seeing the children reflects back at the absent parent the pain caused by their departure, betrayal, shabby behaviour, relinquishing responsibility etc and they don't like that reflection. Not all obviously, but perhaps some.

@leopardandspots I totally agree and this inability to face up to their consequenses speads to the wider families and friends.

I think the pivotal moment within a relationship is when the affair is discovered, the injured party either keeps the details of the affair private to others, or discloses the details and for many adulterers it's too much to bare, they just cannot face the guilt.

Too many mirrors.

@Thewookiemustgo that's such an informative post thank you

It goe's without saying @Thewookiemustgo's post is as ever, enlightening.

In all likelihood they will probably repeat their destructive pattern with someone else.

Yes, a new mirror is always more reflective than an older one. This is why the Affair Partner needs to be wary. When a man marries his mistress he creates a vacancy.

You’re welcome all and thank yiu for the kind comments. Can’t take credit, it was something I read which was a lightbulb moment for me. Affairs just don’t make any sense at all, and that was the closest I ever got to “why”.