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Original poster

When does a friendship become an affair?

288 replies

misshavershamsweddingdress · 17/05/2021 11:50

I have been married for nearly 18 years, 2 DC, lovely home, lifestyle, good and kind husband (!) etc etc. But he has a female friend he has known for much longer than me, on and off over many years, periods of not being in touch and I think they have had a physical relationship at some point in the distant past (not completely sure). In the past two years his contact with her has become more frequent, at least every other day, if not daily and he won't let me see the messages they send to each other. Occasionally he will lock the bathroom door and I can hear talking from him but nothing in reply. At what point is this friendship more than that? Is it already?

OP posts:
bananabrains5719 · 18/05/2021 11:16

Ps Whatsapp online
Quite often person removes last seen in privacy settings but if you have her number and his in phone you can see when online together and monitor how often.
To be honest once you are checking all the time and no trust you probably may feel is it all worth it.
Maybe a hard conversation if he doesn't come clean you are done. Easier said than done I know!

bananabrains5719 · 18/05/2021 11:27

Pps all so if you both have Apple phones connected to iCloud look in phone settings at Apple purchases for him re apps
You might find talk app he is on.

Location settings

I know you said she doesn't live near but you will be surprised how sneaky people will be to meet up.

Ring his work and ask for him as if you are a client so if not there you will know
Same with gym.
My friends hubby went to work and his left phone and watch in car and his lady picked him up in her car.it made it look like he was at work when he wasn't there.
My friend went to work place and hid and watched him park up and get in women's car.

SweatyPie · 18/05/2021 11:38

@misshavershamsweddingdress

I was in a similar situation before. Ex-friends-with-benefits; seemingly his ideal type; talk everyday; bathroom voice note chats; shoehorns into every conversation with me.

It was infuriating and I was blamed for being insecure. Eventually we got over it and I no need have an issue with this friend at all. It took many, many challenging conversations tbf.

The biggest issue here is that you DP is secretive. Would he be happy for you two to meet? Does he reassure you that he's not interested? Are things otherwise decent etc?

I'd also ask him whether there's an element of keeping her around, as a back up or because he's attracted still, and press for an honest answer

Sassanacs · 18/05/2021 12:01

You are his wife, his duty is to you and to calm any fears or worries you have. Snoop away - he isn't considering your feelings and you need to gather what you can to protect yourself. He is invested in this 'friendship', not his marriage.

Houseofvelour · 18/05/2021 12:23

He's lying.
She's not just a friend, she's the one that got away.

Definitely try to see the messages when you can but be aware he may have deleted them as he knows you're on his trail.

Original poster
misshavershamsweddingdress · 18/05/2021 13:10

Thank you to all of you who have replied with your kind and supportive words. I've been sitting here in tears because the realisation has set in that this isn't innocent. I need to see his phone even if there are things he has deleted. I am shaking and a mess trying to get through work today. I would have always said that he isn't the type to do this to have an affair but I am sure that he is now. I want to ask her too but I won't. I don't want them to warn each other either so that they can get their stories straight. I don't think he can have seen her but I was also sure that he wasn't the kind of man to put his family at risk either so I'm not sure I know what I think anymore. I've tried the softly softly approach but I think i need to be tougher now. If I can manage it.

OP posts:
lonelyplanetmum · 18/05/2021 13:34

Just wanted to send 💐. It's a horrible time.

I had this with ExH. Just constant secrecy surrounding meeting up with his previous girlfriend and 'confidante'. We tried everything, joint counselling, his counselling, me talking to her to see if she was interested. In his case I actually think it was an ongoing emotional fixation from him and friendship from her. Although she had an affair with him, before he met me, she wouldn't actually leave her husband for my exH.
However in the end, the emotional priority and protection he gave that friendship was one of many corrosive factors.

You seem lovely, and simply deserve more than this clandestine, shabby whispering in the bathroom stuff. What is wrong with them?

wanadu2022 · 18/05/2021 13:44

I just wanted to say I'm sorry and am sending you solidarity. I had this with my ex, and when I finally saw the messages they confirmed ever suspicion I'd had. No physical affair as she was married but I could see plenty of occasions when we'd both message him at the same time, same question and he'd choose to reply in long, thoughtful paragraphs to her first before sending me an after thought 1 line reply. That cut more than a one night stand would have. The frequency of messages when he'd always tell me he was too busy to text or call. Discussing our relationship with her very negatively. It was something I'd always been suspicious of but he maintained they were just 'friends' for a year. I finally met her and they sat talking together while she ignored me and I was left to talk to her husband. And he STILL maintained they were friends.

It wasn't till I saw the messages for myself I had the strength to leave. It made it concrete somehow.

Mine never accepted it was an emotional affair. 'Close friendship' he called it. But friendships should exist in the fabric of a couples life, not on it own in a corner. Weirdly leaving him was a relief. It meant I didn't wake up with the anxiety and stress of wondering if he was talking to her, what were they talking about, when he was online but not replying to me for ages, was he talking to her etc. I hadn't realised what a toll it had taken on me.

I hope you find nothing suspicious but given the secrecy I think you may find something that feels like a gut punch. Deep breathe through it all. Take screenshots so you can read them when you're calmer and for evidence should you need it.

Remember he's been gaslighting you into thinking this a friendship so will find a way to excuse any messages you show him. But stay on the thread so you don't feel you're going crazy with any lies or manipulation he spins.

Whatever happens you will be fine. And if you do decide to walk away, you'll feel the lightness I do of not being with a man who doesn't respect you or the relationship commitment he made.

Flossie44 · 18/05/2021 15:35

Op, I’m so sorry you’re going through this. 💐
Stay strong for this next part. Thinking of you

GawiNulim · 18/05/2021 23:55

OP are you okay? I've been through this and it sucks. You WILL be happier with him out of your life. Been thinking of you.

Draincover · 19/05/2021 00:07

Why should anyone have to show messages? Conversations you have with certain friends and family are private between you and them. You do not have to share every intimate detail with your partner. I hate my partner going through my phone. And can't stand the nothing to hide BS. I have no want to go through partners' messages because it's none of my business. We are all multi-faceted. However; I happen to trust my gut.

Onthedunes · 19/05/2021 00:23

@Draincover

You sound like a politician.
Why do you think we have investigative reporters, it is the same in marriage.

So what should op do?
Throw 18 years away, without evidence, or keep putting up with her husband befriending a woman who is affecting their marriage.

Yes liars are multi-facited, I agree with that.

Original poster
misshavershamsweddingdress · 19/05/2021 09:09

It's really helpful to read your supportive words because I feel stuck in a no man's land without any real way forwards. H is not communicating with me at the moment apart from life admin stuff and shuts down any attempt I mkae to speak with him about our relationship. He is leaving his phone lying around not keeping it in is pocket like he was before but he is always around too so I've not had a good opportunity to look at it. I don't want to just take it. I know in my heart of hearts I don't really want to see the messages but at the same time I really do.

OP posts:
sunrayscome · 19/05/2021 09:13

Did you not get a chance to look at his phone when he was sleeping as planned? They do say ignorance is bliss ! Has he toned down the bathroom texting stuff now that he knows you are not comfortable with the situation?

Original poster
misshavershamsweddingdress · 19/05/2021 09:41

@sunrayscome no I didn't manage it last night. I usually go to sleep earlier than him and I couldn't stay awake. Will try again tonight though.

OP posts:
sunrayscome · 19/05/2021 10:08

Really feel for you - Good luck x

mochamacro · 19/05/2021 10:13

This is definitely a long term affair.
Bear in mind he may also be using a burner phone.

I think your approach should be that you KNOW he's having an affair and repeat that until he will admit it. Let your head rule and don't show your emotional vulnerability, that's your weakness. His weakness is that this is his fantasy woman and he will try very hard to protect that fact from you but you need to breach that wall to go forward.

Remember the saying: "Fool me once - shame on you, fool me twice - shame on me."

Good luck, OP, I wish you strength.

wanadu2022 · 19/05/2021 10:28

That's frustrating he's shut down any further communication. Seems a massively overblown reaction to a reasonable request from you on what's going on and why it's been so secretive.

Feels manipulative to me, like he's making it YOUR fault for questioning him. So you'll stop. Leaving the phone around feels pointless - because maybe he knows she won't be contacting him today or he's muted her so notifications are switched off.

I'd be getting angry myself now. Stonewalling is BS and it's not like you were snooping on him or aggressive when questioning. You do have a right to know the extent of friendship and why he's in the bathroom talking to her. And yes, you do get to see the messages because this is your marriage and you can't understand why he won't resssure you (given he's not behaving like he normally does with friends)

Don't give in to this manipulation. It's the guilty offensive. Get angry back and if he still carries on this bonkers silent treatment, either see if you can check his phone while asleep or go stay with a friend or family for a few days to show you're serious about considering a separation if he insists on secrecy. And so you get out of this toxic environment he's created for a bit. If that doesn't trigger him into talking, you have your answer.

Onthedunes · 19/05/2021 12:34

So he is punishing you for questioning him. Him leaving his phone arround shows he has forewarned his friend and he had deleted anything incriminating, maybe.

He knows you are watching so if you want to find out the truth, which I believe he will not give to you freely, your findings will have to be covert. You have entered his vile world of secrecy.

Horrible times, if your man cannot reassure you then they arn't much of a man.

Take care
x

Phoenix121 · 19/05/2021 13:06

If she's such a good and long-standing friend, isn't it about time he introduced you to her? What do you think would happen if you suggested that to him?

Original poster
misshavershamsweddingdress · 19/05/2021 13:34

Quick update - I have his phone. I've not looked at it yet, I'm hoping I can get in to it. I'm not at home, I just took it and left so that I can read the messages. This isn't like me, I would never do something like this normally. I feel guilty about taking it.

OP posts:
sunrayscome · 19/05/2021 13:37

He only has himself to blame for putting you through this turmoil - do not feel guilty. Hope you get into the phone - he may have deleted messages though by now

Jonjojobs123 · 19/05/2021 13:47

I feel sick for you

Flossie44 · 19/05/2021 13:53

Op, stay strong.💐

I don’t believe you will find anything on his phone today as I feel he prepared for this to happen and wiped any evidence.

Sending strength

Cockenspiel · 19/05/2021 14:04

If you find anything, make sure you take pictures, even if it’s pictures of where he has deleted messages. This will allow you to not be gaslit.

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