When does a friendship become an affair?

[misshavershamsweddingdress]

I have been married for nearly 18 years, 2 DC, lovely home, lifestyle, good and kind husband (!) etc etc. But he has a female friend he has known for much longer than me, on and off over many years, periods of not being in touch and I think they have had a physical relationship at some point in the distant past (not completely sure). In the past two years his contact with her has become more frequent, at least every other day, if not daily and he won't let me see the messages they send to each other. Occasionally he will lock the bathroom door and I can hear talking from him but nothing in reply. At what point is this friendship more than that? Is it already?

Good luck OP

OP, their relationship is highly inappropriate and disrespectful.

For the past 2 years, your H has been building intimacy via his over-frequent and secretive interactions with this OW. At everyday or every other day, they are exchanging an abundance of emotional energy, time and attention. It is possible that they have escalated to sexting.

He has marginalized you by dismissing your reasonable discomfort and blocking transparency.

This would not be happening in my marriage and you should not tolerate it in yours.

well, I don't know. One of my closest friends is a man. We text every day, actually, often multiple times a day. To the point that if I didn't hear from him for more than 48 hours I'd worry a bit.

I also often mention him to my husband, because of course we talk so much that I often mention things he has said to me, as in, X recommended this movie we should watch it etc., so you could say I have mentionitis.

My husband knows him, but they are not friends. If I catch up with him, (he lives in a different city so not often, maybe once a year) my husband and my friend's wife will not come because they find that the interaction is a little stilted, because my friend and I are so much closer than anybody else in the group and share so many interests that the conversation becomes odd, so nobody ends up having much of a good time. They'd rather let us get on with it. But we will do family things together though, and our kids are mates.

I also do online courses with my friend, as we share one particular interest that we pursue through study, and we will "meet" on zoom, usually twice a week and often chat afterwards to comment on the course content.

We rely on each other emotionally, and have no secrets. I wouldn't really show our text conversations to my DH, because I respect my friend's privacy and would expect the same from him. That said, my phone is not off limits, I leave it lying around everywhere and would have no issues with my DH using it.

According to mumsnet lore, we are having an emotional affair and this is all unacceptable. We are not, we are just very close friends, with very similar interests, and have been for more than 20 years. If my DH had a problem with any of this, I would be quite disappointed. As it happens, he does not, he trusts me.

Just a different perspective!

OP, this is so tough. The biggest red flag for me would be the bathroom chatting and secrecy over conversations.

Could this be innocent? Is there anything that he could be arranging for you? Big birthday etc?

Saying this, I really couldn’t tolerate any behaviour that left me feeling insecure by my husband. If he knows you’re feeling this way, that alone should ensure he comforts you and reassures you. This would be my biggest worry.

Tbh, I’d be hiding a recording device in the bathroom. Then you’d know.

Thank you for all of your replies. I'll write more later, it's the morning rush at the moment.

This morning I am sure that there is something more than friendship going on although I did think that I have no real proof he's talking to her in the bathroom. He could be talking to anybody but why hide away? Anyway, I think that's the least of my concerns now. We talked last night, I tried to be non-accusatory and use my feelings as a base for the conversation. He maintains that they are friends and only friends. I also now know that they have had a physical relationship in the past but they were not together. From what he said they both wanted to be but circumstances meant that they weren't. She moved on and away, got married, had kids. I also now know that her 20years + marriage broke down three years ago. I have not seen his phone, he won't let me see the messages and this is what really bothers me. If they were innocent chat then it surely would be no problem? The stupid thing is that I now the passcode (or I used to, I'm suspicious enough now to think he has changed it) and if I could get hold of his phone then I could see for myself. I don't really knowhow to feel at the moment, disappointed and jealous that he talks to her so much.

Did he acknowledge how it makes you feel? Did he understand why it's uncomfortable for you?

He won't let you see the messages? That's a massive red flag. There might be people who would say that he's entitled to his privacy and I agree with this up to the point where you have clearly become distressed about this particular situation with this particular woman. In that instance, anybody with a heart would allow you to read the messages so that you could put your mind at rest.

Thinking of you.
Hope you get to find out everything so you can decide what to do.
It sounds like he is up to something but may not be??but I personally wouldn't like this situation especially as you now know he had a physical relationship with her previously and she is not in her marriage anymore.
Trust your gut.
Maybe don't say anything for a while but investigate carefully and pretend everything ok with you and he will relax with phone etc and you may be able to catch him out.
Be prepared.
Also you previously described type of look he goes for and she is different to this.
One of my friends husbands always used to say if women were too thin and my friend was more curvy not skinny but my friends husband almost left her after going to dinner and maybe other things behind her back. The women he took out was tall blonde really thin and sort of lady he had said wasn't attractive.
My friend was devastated. Still with him but she has said her heart is broken.

Ps I know it's wrong to snoop on someone else's phone but something feels off here.
Hope you ok.

My ex used to spend hours in the bathroom with his phone and became really defensive when his daughter was playing with his phone - he went mad incase she had accessed his messages - poor child and yes he was having an affair with his 'friend'

So he had a physical thing with him and the start of her marriage..and now that marriage has gone.....

In my book, if things have to be hidden then it's an affair, either an emotional or physical affair, but affair all the same

However, I'd not be happy if my dh demanded he look at my phone, but I'd hand it over if there was nothing to hide.

There was a thread recently that was similar where the husband refused to stop talking to the ow, i think it resulted in them splitting up.

When you are married you should be number one priority and if they are more worried about talking to someone else this is a big concern in my view

It’s an emotional affair, it’s crossed your boundary and you feel uncomfortable with it.
Every bit of energy going into writing a text or speaking to her in energy taken away from your marriage. Your DH may or may not realise this but that’s the case.
If it was me I could be very clear of the boundaries in your marriage, tell him he is crossing them and that he’s in danger of losing you if this secrecy and investment in the woman continues.

He's not here at the moment and I have meetings all day so there won't be any time for any more discussion until later. I'm not sure if I even want to talk about it any more with him today. I want to try and stay awake until he is definitely sleeping, he's a heavy sleeper and then try and look at his phone. I know snooping isn't good but at the moment it feels like I need to. He said that he won't discourage her from talking and that he intends to carry on being her friend as she need someone to talk to atthe moment. I have been snooping on her social media - open insta but private fb. She is beautiful and looks so happy with her kids and friends. In contrast I am dumpy, frumpy and wrinkled. He has aged well, like she has. I'd want to be her friend if I met her. I'd want to ask her how she has managed to age so gracefully, how she has it all together after getting divorced. I feel threatened by her at the same time. Why does she have to talk to my husband? Hasn't she got any other friends?

It’s not really about her, it’s about your husband.

Really feel for you.

The trouble is if he lets you see the messages now you’ll be wondering what he has deleted and this is going to eat away at you. The trust has gone and for some there’s no way back. I no longer trust my husband implicitly after a very low level EA and I don’t think I will ever completely get over that.

Don't compare yourself to her.
It's easy to look on social media and see pictures of people looking beautiful because they are not going to put pictures up when they look tired etc.
You are a beautiful person too inside and out.
From reading what you say you wouldn't behave like this to your husband or with someone else's husband.
I can never understand how women have so little respect for someone else's marriage.
Don't put yourself down. Just because someone looks attractive on the outside it doesn't mean they are a nice/good person.
If you aren't happy with aspects of your appearance do something about that for yourself not anyone else. It will give you more confidence/self esteem.
I'm sure this isn't needed but you sound like you are down on yourself now.
Sending you lots of support.

I think you're right to try to look at his phone if you can.

It does sound like something is going on. Her marriage split up and it seems they're talking more than ever.

She’s not a beautiful person if she’s texting a married man daily.

I’d definitely look at his phone too. He’s keeping something from you. He even admits it himself by refusing you knowledge over the messages.

Maybe look when he’s in the shower? Or like you say, when he’s asleep. But be prepared to be caught. Quite frankly though, if you are, then he may have to confront the situation rather then bury his head and continue to be deceitful.
Good luck

Tech advise- significant locations on phone.
Google maps.
Calendar.
Browser.

iPad connected to phones.
Passwords stored in iPad if you both have iPad passcode.
Computer press safari and put in first letter alphabet and may show up how to get into phone bill/other nos.

Car navigation destinations
Recording device.
PayPal
Bank accounts
Ringo device records so if kitchen window open and you out you may hear phone conversations.
Phone him from withheld no and see if he says anything by mistake.
Private detective if you can afford.
Mate you trust to follow him or go where he apparently going.
Any other ideas
This is how my mate caught her hubby

She needs to step back and let your marriage breathe - what a horrible woman to know she is taking up all of his time - if she was a true friend of his she would not be engaging in all of these messages