He hesitated?

[stubbedtoe]

Basically this.

I've been in a classic "commitment phobe" relationship for two years and I finally gave him the "all or nothing" message.

I am not saying he wasn't committed in terms of dating other people and so on, but more in moving forward with major life commitments like moving in or buying a home.

He was always a good boyfriend, but he has an almost phobic reaction to serious commitment because he says in the past it's never worked out and he found it hard to leave so ended up miserable for years.

Initially, when I gave him the ultimatum, I cut off contact and within 36 hours he sent me a message to say he was so sorry, he really loved me, I was the love of his life and he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. He even proposed and then started suggesting we look at houses together.

Then a couple of days later he seemed to second guess himself and asked for time and space away from each other so he could be sure his decision wasn't a knee-jerk reaction to the idea of losing me :(

I was devastated really by this. I felt a bit like surely you know if you love someone and want to be with them or not?

We are currently in "no contact", but he messaged me after 3 days to ask if I was okay and I didn't respond.

I am really confused here over whether or not I am being a big baby and maybe he is just being reasonable and taking time to think through a major life commitment.

OR

If a man loves you and wants to marry you, he bloody well knows it and doesn't need time and space to think about it.

What do you think? I am really confused over what to do when he comes back to me. He might come back and say he realises I am not the one (in which case no brainer) but if he comes back and says he wants to be with me and move forward, how do I react to that?

I feel a bit injured, ego wise and it's not exactly romantic.

@stubbedtoe the ending is probably a blessing in disguise for you then and I hope in the future you will find someone who shares your secure attachment style and can engage in a healthy, loving dynamic with you x

@OrangeFudge Also, I am a secure attacher. We don't have that toxic push / pull. All his previous relationships did. He said ours was the first healthy and happy relationship he had ever had and that being with me was fixing him.

I know the breakup/ makeup thing was a toxic cycle in itself, but generally speaking our connection was not push / pull.

I'd generally just give him space and be patient and get on with my life and it was generally a calm and loving relationship

@stubbedtoe Cross post. Ok, you’re securely attached, that’s a good start . Apparently partners who are avoidant can wobble even securely attached people so that they momentarily slip into anxious thinking...? You’ll find your ground easier if you’ve been secure most of your life.

It sounds a very 'coaxing mummy' and 'reluctant child' thing you had going on.

I am securely attached - about as secure as it gets

@stubbedtoe See you know what you want OP and that there's nothing wrong with it, it's perfectly reasonable. Keep hold of that going forward and only tolerate a man who gives you the kind of relationship you feel you should be getting for each step of the way.

Someone who's putting in the same amount of effort and commitment as you and seems as enthusiastic for it.

@OrangeFudge It was just a calm relationship generally. I didn't feel rejected or upset by his avoidant stuff. I was pretty happy to just let him do most things in his own time.

When we first met he would shut down and use every distancing strategy in the book. After two years, we worked through those, and he tried really hard. The only one we had left was "sabotaging when the relationship is going well". I think that's what taking this job is about.

Part of being securely attached though is understanding who is or isn't a suitable partner, and I have always been good at that. The breakups were really about me saying "these distancing strategies are painful and obstruct normal life" and choosing to leave.

It was more like that than some dramatic, attention seeking tantrum. The problem was me leaving in itself would take away the fear, so then he'd come back and say he'd thought it over and I was right and he was being avoidant and he would fix it.

Then, largely, he did.

Taking this job though, was senseless. It would have moved him an hour from me and made living together impossible. My eldest child is still in school and I can't move. He knows this, and that's why he does it.

I could see it was a sabotaging strategy because we are happy and have all these wonderful plans but when things are like that he finds an obstacle. Then once he has taken the job, he will regret it and say it was the biggest mistake of his life. It's how he works. It's easier for him to avoid life than live it.

He's sent me some heartbreaking messages this evening saying he is sorry, I am the love of his life, knowing me made him a better person, he will never be able to not love me and so on. I believe him. It is just so bloody sad.

[quote stubbedtoe]@OrangeFudge it was hard for him to start therapy, he said he did it because he loved me so much and wanted to be happy and stop being such a dick.

Honestly, I am just baffled he's made this choice

You are all correct and I do know it's for the best but it doesn't make it less hurty[/quote]
Yes, I do believe he started therapy for those reasons. I think that by starting therapy he actually showed a good level of commitment to the relationship, given his attachment style.

Seems that his fear and anxiety of love and intimacy got the better of him in the end. I think it’s quite possible he’ll change his mind some time down the road. Please think hard about what you really want from a relationship. I tend to agree with others that relationships shouldn’t be this hard. Maybe it is easier to block him...?

I'm sorry OP because clearly you feel strongly for this man.

Now's the time to do some work on yourself...you are secure attached but break off relationship multiple times, those two things contradict each other. I'm not trying to be unkind. I've been there in my previous relationship and been through all the motions you've spoken about and are going through. That relationship ultimately taught me how badly I was short changing myself. I went on to much better things and you will too. he's released you , he's ended it and done what you couldn't. Take his resolve and make it your strength.

@OrangeFudge Taking this job is a dealbreaker. It means he lives too far for us to live together and the contract he has signed is for three years. He knew if he did this that it would be over, I told him dozens of times.

He wrestled with it so much, and believe me I am not understating, there is nothing special about the job and he could have done the same job much closer. It is deliberate sabotage and we both know it.

We've discussed this for weeks now, and he's literally sat there and cried. I told him I was leaving if he did this and he cried literally for hours and said "this is madness, we love each other" but he still does it!!!!

Maybe he just realised he is never going to give me what I want and decided to be kind and let me go.

Oh c'mon OP. Those messages are obviously designed to make you feel wretched. If he did love you, he wouldn't be so manipulative. "I love you, but I'm fucking off anyway."

When we first met he would shut down and use every distancing strategy in the book
And you 'worked' for 2 years on this?
WTAF?

I was with someone like this for five years. He was my first love and I wanted a future with him. Like you I told him how I felt and broke it off but he came back after a few weeks saying he wanted to be with me etc etc. This carried on for a couple more years with no progress.

One evening an acquaintance made a jokey comment about "when are you gonna put a ring on her finger"....the look on his face said it all. I left him that night and never looked back, never contacted him again. He attempted to contact me a few weeks after but I ignored it.

Don't get me wrong I was absolutely devastated, took me a year or more to get over him but I definitely made the right decision. He's now married to someone else so I know it was just that he didn't want to marry ME.

Personally I'd be friendly but pull 100% away. I'm like your boyfriend so I get it. If someone had given me an ultimatum I would have to end it because the feeling of being trapped would be too overwhelming for me. The fact that his knee jerk was to propose is a great sign I think, and I like that he's being rational a lot. I personally think that's a great trait that doesn't mean he doesn't love you - to me it shows he respects the gravity of what commitment is. I think dialling back on the intensity with some time & space would be a great way forward. You two are just very different and I personally think he's done a lot to meet you half way. I think what you see as a lack of respect or commitment he just sees as his pace and comfort level (which I can understand as I'm more made that way, too. Doesn't stop me being any more loving with my husband, though!).

I didn't feel rejected or upset by his avoidant stuff. I was pretty happy to just let him do most things in his own time.

Oh but you weren't ok with it OP. That's why you made a thread. And you were right not to be happy with it.

He's sent me some heartbreaking messages this evening

block him. This is all words and talk.

We've discussed this for weeks now, and he's literally sat there and cried. I told him I was leaving if he did this and he cried literally for hours and said "this is madness, we love each other" but he still does it!!!!

Because he's talking sht @stubbedtoe* . He was ok with the way things were, he didn't want it to change, it gave him exactly what he wanted. It's very manipulative the amount of things he tried to make you put up with by playing the 'tortured soul.'

OP I'm so sorry for both of you. It is very sad, but it sounds like this is the right outcome overall.

Annasgirl
This
This is the perfect spot on answer. With the right person who wants to be with you it will be easy, the agony of uncertainty will be gone. It will just be simple and you will not believe how much time you wasted trying to make someone else commit to you believing if you could just do or be exactly the right thing then it would finally work out.
Relationships are hard enough you need a volunteer.

the fact that his knee jerk was to propose is a great sign I think

@Polkadots2021 That is just words he said to keep OP involved, then he would back out/stall over it

and I like that he's being rational a lot.

Rational???????????? Well, maybe in as much as he was/is getting what he wanted out of the scenario.

And claiming/making up some sort of psychological issue as an excuse. I really wouldn't be surprised if he never actually went to therapy at all.

I really think you need to block him now. He has made his choice. Let him do all his hand wringing on his own. You don't owe him a thing. He sounds seriously messed up - do not get pulled back in again.

This is so sad. It seems like you are so wrapped up in navel gazing and analysing the relationship that you can’t see the woods for the trees. You say you are securely attached yet you have chosen to spend to years tying yourself in knots trying to maintain a relationship where the other party describes you as ‘fixing’ them. This is really dysfunctional, it’s almost like a saviour type complex that you and he feel you are the only one who can ever ‘fix’ him

I would take the very high level of emotional energy you have invested in him and redirect it to your child and make plans to be happily single for a while.

This is so sad. It seems like you are so wrapped up in navel gazing and analysing the relationship that you can’t see the woods for the trees

Spot on. OP also has DC she's just mentioned. Where do they fit in with all this angsty carry on?

Seriously, he's a waste of time. He's a time-sucking, energy-sucking vampire that doesn't light you up or make you feel good. Not really.

Are you being a rescuer? Like someone who wants to rescue someone. Be careful of that role. It's not a good one.

I'd say once you are firmly out of this, you may be very very happy he made the decision for you. Someone had to do it. Personally it would had alarm bells ringing for me much much earlier.

I wonder if you have compromised your boundaries here and given up too much of yourself for him. For me it would be a 100% yes to that answer.

you can't see it now but you are in love with the idea of being in love, but this is not love.

Anaylse truly what love is - it is not this. You have to face the fact he may not be capable of normal fulfilling honourable love.

So get away now and run run run for your life. And check if you're a rescuer and how that shapes your boundaries.

It's fine to make mistakes in relationships. It's not fine to repeat them. Don't be a repeater.

Sorry if I am harsh. Big hugs to you because I imagine you're devestated but I think you may actually recover quite quickly now you have been released. The burden will lift shortly and you will so free.

@korawick12345

This is so sad. It seems like you are so wrapped up in navel gazing and analysing the relationship that you can’t see the woods for the trees. You say you are securely attached yet you have chosen to spend to years tying yourself in knots trying to maintain a relationship where the other party describes you as ‘fixing’ them. This is really dysfunctional, it’s almost like a saviour type complex that you and he feel you are the only one who can ever ‘fix’ him

Yes, but also, the person who says he needs to be ‘fixed’ keeps deliberately sabotaging any attempts to ‘fix’ him. He doesn’t want to be fixed. He prefers his life as it is, and he’s prepared to put the woman who is supposedly the love of his life through the wringer by temporarily pretending otherwise and then reneging, over and over, as Shea,te4nately fuels up and dials down her saviour complex..

OP, you say it’s easier for him to avoid life than live it, and that sounds right. But you need to ask yourself why you chose to devote two years to avoiding commitment yourself by choosing over and over someone you knew deep down was never going to manage the cohabiting/marriage/ united lives you want.

it’s almost like a saviour type complex that you and he feel you are the only one who can ever ‘fix’ him

@korawick12345 Yep that's true.

a) I don't really believe a lot of what he's coming out with, I think it's psychobabble to help him get away with how he was acting for so long

and

b) Even if it was slightly genuine, OP was in a position of co-dependency.

@stubbedtoe It won't all apply, but you might find some stuff on Youtube helpful, such as some of Richard Grannon's videos. Maybe put keywords that you think are relevant (perhaps such as co-dependency) into the search facility of his channel. www.youtube.com/channel/UCU9xNc-P8GWAdafmAcNVi6g

I suppose your guy is a bit of a narc in so much as he's either wrapped up in his own issues and/or focussed on getting what he wants from the relationship, regardless of your feelings.

Either way you should block him BTW.

He's not the only one with issues. he doesn't really believe he deserves my love and he's waiting for the catch. He has said so many times that he doesn't understand why someone like me loves him, that he's always waiting for the shoe to drop. Why is this good enough for you? There must be something avoidant in you too.

What a shit. But, he's done you a massive favour and you'll waste not one single second more on him and his many issues. Now, get yourself a mini-break booked (if that's possible right now with current restrictions), and spend some time doing what you want to do and nurturing yourself.