He hesitated?

[stubbedtoe]

Basically this.

I've been in a classic "commitment phobe" relationship for two years and I finally gave him the "all or nothing" message.

I am not saying he wasn't committed in terms of dating other people and so on, but more in moving forward with major life commitments like moving in or buying a home.

He was always a good boyfriend, but he has an almost phobic reaction to serious commitment because he says in the past it's never worked out and he found it hard to leave so ended up miserable for years.

Initially, when I gave him the ultimatum, I cut off contact and within 36 hours he sent me a message to say he was so sorry, he really loved me, I was the love of his life and he wanted to spend the rest of his life with me. He even proposed and then started suggesting we look at houses together.

Then a couple of days later he seemed to second guess himself and asked for time and space away from each other so he could be sure his decision wasn't a knee-jerk reaction to the idea of losing me :(

I was devastated really by this. I felt a bit like surely you know if you love someone and want to be with them or not?

We are currently in "no contact", but he messaged me after 3 days to ask if I was okay and I didn't respond.

I am really confused here over whether or not I am being a big baby and maybe he is just being reasonable and taking time to think through a major life commitment.

OR

If a man loves you and wants to marry you, he bloody well knows it and doesn't need time and space to think about it.

What do you think? I am really confused over what to do when he comes back to me. He might come back and say he realises I am not the one (in which case no brainer) but if he comes back and says he wants to be with me and move forward, how do I react to that?

I feel a bit injured, ego wise and it's not exactly romantic.

I’d have run a mile on the first date if a guy had told me what he wanted life plan wise from a relationship. To me that’s sounds like I want x, y and z rather than the person themselves.

He’s right to take his time, two years is barely anything dating wise and it seems all about your wants not his.

I don’t think I would want to be with someone who wouldn’t go away for the weekend with me …

I’ve read all your posts and it’s exhausting; I can only imagine how draining this has become for you both.

You seem to have really got locked into this pattern with him. And at the crux of it is this - you’re trying to change him. It doesn’t work. It never works. You know the old chestnut about how you can only change yourself? It’s true.

For a ltr to work you have to accept the person you’re with, warts and all. It’s really that simple. These are big warts, there’s no denying that, and if they’re bigger than you can live with, that’s your prerogative.

He can get therapy, and try to change but it’s not a magic wand and this isn’t a fairytale. You’re likely to be dragging through these issues all your life. You need to change your focus from what you need him to change, to what you can accept.

If you can’t deal with him, as he is, the most loving thing you can do is end it so that he’s free to try and find happiness with someone else. But this endless cycle of ultimatums, and promises, moving close and drawing back, is so deeply toxic for both of you.

I'd end it, to be honest. At 41 if this is the way he is, then it's the way he'll remain to be. Until I saw his age mentioned I honestly thought you were talking about someone in their mid-twenties who stayed with someone they were dating from school/uni for too long.

It isn't worth it. Life shouldn't be a battle.

You have to step away from your feelings for him and ask yourself this.
What do I expect from a relationship ?
Am I getting it now ?
What do I want to be doing in 2 years, 4 years , 6 years ?
If I want a family , is this person the one I want them with ?
Can I afford to wait a long while whilst he makes up his mind ? ( Fertility wise )
There are probably another 100 questions you should be considering. Now is the time to decide.

@stubbedtoe I was there. As @Annasgirl said. We dated and all for 2 years, then I asked for a family and he was not ready due to previous issues, taking care of his mother, not having dealt with death of his dad, having hard time running his business...etc.

He was generally emotionally immature, very distant in many ways, "locked inside himself" and all that.

I ended it, for his own sake as well as mine, and he had a baby 9 months later or so (and no, he was not cheating , it was his way of showing me "what I missed"). He now hates his life, calls me often to complain (we are on good speaking terms).

Don't waste your life trying to fix someone. People do not change and cannot be fixed, or helped, or loved unless they want to. Do yourself and him a massive favour and move on.

It took six months of dating to spend more than one night in a row together, it took a year to go on a mini-break, it took 18 months for him to introduce me to his family. It has been like pulling teeth.

It is exhausting living like this - pulling teeth is a good description.

I have put so much love into this relationship, so much

A classic case of sunk cost fallacy. You're prepared to keep grinding on, through multiple breakups, you doing all the heavy lifting and him faffing around with his hand on his forehead, unable to be decisive, all the "shall I, shan't I", because you've put so much love in. But the reality is that it's been your investment, and he's been able to coast along for the ride, safe in the knowledge that you'll never be the one to pull the plug on this existence.

Ultimatums don't work. Every time you give him an ultimatum and then go back on that, you're signalling your dependence, and that you don't really mean it.

“ We are currently in "no contact", but he messaged me after 3 days to ask if I was okay and I didn't respond.

I am really confused here over whether or not I am being a big baby”

You are.
If I was his friends I’d be telling him to run, you sound like you’ve got it all planned out regardless of how he feels, you sound exhausting

You poor thing, you must be exhausted.

Take a proper break from him. 3-6 months. Try dating, living without the constant torture of managing his issues.

If you still want to make it work then get back in touch.

When you left the first time then you shouldn’t have gone back, seen the pattern much sooner and ended it. Take the step now

I’m firmly of the belief that it shouldn’t be hard. If it’s hard then it’s not right. There’s someone out there for you who will be tripping over themselves to do all of this stuff with you. Don’t be with someone who had to force themselves to make a commitment to you.

Hmm... If you dumped him, I'd put money on him getting married and having kids with someone else very quickly. It's strange how many men claim to be commitment phones but then move on very swiftly into highly committed relationships.

Get rid OP. I know that's easier said than done when you love someone but only heartbreak lies ahead for you.

@WhyNotNow21 everything you've said is more or less spot on and exactly what he's been going through in counselling. He says he can't cope with loss at all, and as life is pain it's best to minimise pain. So he approaches life in a risk averse way.

He had terrible relationships he couldn't leave because he's afraid of being alone. He had a terrible childhood and thinks he deserves terrible things.

People here might not understand it, but I think I am the only person in his life that has ever actually loved him (not in a toxic way) and he finds that difficult to understand and I find it difficult to walk away from.

He says me wanting him and not needing him feels less "safe" because previous partners would be fairly toxic when he was avoidant or pushed them away, they would do stuff like threaten suicide or call 50000 times. I don't do that and he says it makes him feel less safe. He says in a way that sort of mental behavior reenforced the idea in his head that he was loved and so I make him feel unsafe. Particularly because of the breakups.

He is scared of loss, yet the very thing that he is scared of, motivates him to commit further, which then increases his anxiety about losing "yet more" and so the cycle continues

Exactly this, you have him down pat.

It's not you, OP, it's him. That much is clear. You're not controlling, either, as far as I can see. You just want what he says he wants, too. And then he acts as if he doesn't.

The issue is that his words and his actions don't match. They never have, have they? So there's two possibilities, basically: he's either saying things he doesn't mean to string you along, or he's totally messed up emotionally and acting against his own interests.

I wouldn't waste another second wondering which of those is the case; it really doesn't matter from where you're sitting, does it? The impact is exactly the same. You're very clear about what you want, so there's no work to be done there, either.

This man is the one who needs to get to work if he wants to stay in a relationship with you. He needs to seek professional help - a good counsellor or psychotherapist - to straighten out what he does really want and help him align his words and his actions one way or the other. If he isn't prepared to put the work in, he doesn't value you eough to be worth persisting with would be my take.

Why not tell him to come back and tell you when he has done some work and got himself aligned? You have some breathing space in the meantime to enjoy life a bit more and perhaps explore other possibilities. I wouldn't advise telling him you'll wait; you've done more than enough of that already. If you give him a deadline, he's the sort to wait until the day before to start doing anything. Perhaps he could be encouraged to share progress reports whenever he feels he has something new he wants to tell you.

You're not controlling; in fact you've effectively put him in contol of your life and it's time to take back control for yourself, if you can forgive the Brexit echo!

@blacksax yes that is what he’s doing.
I had a very poor relationship with my father with lots of abandonment. So I recognise this pattern in him. I feel terrified in a relationship. I always felt better when I broke up ! I would relax and feel a weight lift from my shoulders. It’s this constant fear of being hurt. I used to test anyone I was with - awful behaviour sometimes to see if they left.
The only thing that changed for me was how much I wanted children. I got to late 30s and met someone and after a very short time purposely fell pregnant( which he wanted too) . I committed myself to a baby and to the person I was with. It scared me to bits , I had a number of freak outs. A big one just before we got married. I pushed through and now I say I have a fear attack once every few months In my head but I would never runaway (like I used to). My role as a mum and a wife and being tied down into commitment and facing my fears has nearly cured me.
Sometimes you have to feel the fear and do it anyway.
If he bought the place and got married he would realise he’s not trapped and nothing has changed. He’s built it up too much in his head. I do think you continually breaking up with him has not helped. I understand your reasons but it is showing him you can walk away which is the last thing he needs to see.
I feel for you because it’s not easy being with a commitment phobic person. Like taming a wild dog that can bite you at any time. It’s hard work but he can get there. May be he should write his fears down and you can work through them together. I took a lot of reassuring and that got me to the point I am now. Good luck

I’d have run a mile on the first date if a guy had told me what he wanted life plan wise from a relationship. To me that’s sounds like I want x, y and z rather than the person themselves.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss Usually people don't have to spell out what they want from a serious relationship, because people know what it usually means- some progression (in a sensible amount of time- which OP is doing) towards living together, marriage, etc etc.

And most people want someone reasonably demonstrative, and consistant in their demonstrations of love and commitment.

I have put so much love into this relationship, so much

@stubbedtoe I've been in scenarios like this. A relationship should have people clearly investing the same level of effort over time, love, interest etc. It should be reciprocal. You deserve to be treated better than this. You are letting your self esteem be stomped on. Assert your self worth and bin him and find someone who treats you in the way you treat them. You'll feel better for binning him, I promise you.

You are currently the support human for a man who does not want to face up to his own insecurities. Is there any joy for either of you in the relationship? It doesn’t sound like you’re on the same page in terms of what you want.

Signing up to be the rescuer/enforcer for a lifetime sounds like the kind of thing that would grind you down into resentment.

DH had two serious relationships end because they didn't feel he was committed enough, no cheating it anything but used to write openly day he didn't believe in marriage, there was no need to rush moving in etc (we were friends long before we were together so I saw this play out). We'd been dating less than a year when he moved in and had been very open that he wanted to marry me. When it's right the excuses disappear. I'd never want to convince someone to commit to me, it would play on my mind and make me feel like I wasn't enough or that they'd just eventually settled.

Oh, and OP? His problems are clearly not of your making, and you aren't able to fix them for him, either. You've tried your best and he's not made a scrap of real progress. He really needs someone professionally trained and emotionally unconnected. He has to want to fix this problem and he needs to take responsbility for arranging the help.

(If he says he can't do it without you, or that you need to sort it for him, it just sets you up to take the blame if he fails.)

Be prepared for him to discover through counselling that you aren't the right person and find someone else entirely. Be prepared to discover that yourself, too. You might both be happier with different partners!

OP

You deserve to be with someone who puts in an equal amount of effort..

In my experience when men don’t commit, it’s usually because the relationship isn’t right and on some level they know that.

It shouldn’t be this hard after two years. However If this really is the first time he’s asked for space and you feel he’s genuinely at a crossroads and you love him, I’d give him one more chance if he says he’s truly considered it and he’s all in. However if he backed off again after that I’d be out the door and never look back.

I think you have to be honest with yourself that this relationship is toxic and has no future.

You've had to drag him along to get him to do anything.

You know it's not supposed to be that way.

Your fed up and breaking up has zero effect on him as he knows he can call in a couple of days and you're right back with him.

Stick with your ultimatum. Tell him you want space and mean it. Delete and block him and move on with your life and date others.

Yikes, he messaged and he's decided to take the job.

So that's us over.

Ouch

Devastated

I always find these kinds of threads a bit depressing and frustrating.

You aren't compatible, that is clear. But equally OP you have agency and choice, it's just you won't make them, you want someone else to do it for you. Which makes you both as bad as each other.

One of my closest friends in a similar relationship, and it's so disappointing that she would rather stay and be miserable and feed on crumbs 5 years later on and still no plans to go anywhere.

@stubbedtoe

How does he enhance my life? I'm never happier than with him. He's the best person I know. We're in love.

I wish to God that wasn't the case and I was in love with someone without these issues because I've found it really hard and it's damaging to us.

Everyone keeps saying we are not compatible. I am not sure how anyone could be compatible with this!

I might come across a bit irate here, but this is me at the end of my patience feeling really nervous he's about to dump me.

I have really been patient and relaxed 99% of the time and it's taken a toll on me

I actually think you are the opposite of controlling. Statements like "feeling really nervous he's about to dump me" show that you're just waiting around hoping he won't end things. That's no way to live.

And you say you wish you weren't in love with him... you can be in love with him and still end things because they're not best for you. Loving someone doesn't mean a life sentence attached to that person.

You seem to defend him/the situation with every update. Not sure what you're looking for from all of us.

He did end things

Texted a few minutes ago