Would this make you feel you rubbish?

[Greyisthenewpink]

Let me prefix this by saying I know this is largely my own fault.

When we had dc1 we agreed that I would be a sahm - we could afford it as a family and DH has always been away a lot on business. It made sense for both of us that I would be on hand because basically he wasn’t going to give any input into raising the dc. We then had the second dc.
I’ve never had any access to any joint account and I have no savings in my name (used them over the years) and I’ve no pension.
DH has always given me a set amount every month that’s for me and the dc. It’s £600. I use that for whatever they need, plus some of my own personal bills such as phone and car stuff - usually after I’ve paid for petrol (mainly goes on school runs) and some of the day to day shopping expenses and my phone etc I’m left with about £300.
Out of that I pay for the dc’s clothes and because I have them with me any activities or days out etc. It sounds a lot and I’m prepared to be told I’m spoilt but it doesn’t go that far. Especially in school holidays.
However when we are on holiday with DH or on the very occasional day out he accompanies us on he will pay but he never wants to actually get up and pay for anything so he gives me his card and whilst I should be grateful it makes me feel like a child. So if we go for a meal or something he’ll say - here’s my card.
Occasionally he’ll bestow something on me like a new coat or something but I can only really afford it if he says I can have it. He has a LOT more disposable income than me (mortgage free, basic salary of 90k plus bonuses and various other investments) but then he earns it.
I have no gone back to work now my youngest is in pre school, covid has slowed me down a bit in terms of finding something, I will still have a lot less money than him but he’s agreed I can still have the £600 a month as long as I pay for the all the childcare out of my money too which seems fair.
But I’m left with sort of a sense of unease. It’s my fault for being financially dependent on someone else. I’ve found my confidence has taken a real blow, all the decisions have been his because he has all the money. When he travelled I worried about things like the car breaking down or the boiler breaking because I had no access to any money should that happen. I mean if I’d called him he’d have probably transferred me the money but having nothing has made me feel really anxious.
This will pass won’t it? I should know have about £1200 a month after I’ve paid for childcare and it’ll be so much better.

OP, I have only read your posts, but what strikes me is what you seem to think the "deal" is with being a SAHM and your husband working (and with being married more generally). From what you say, it sounds like you don't feel your contribution to the family is worth anything, and therefore you should be grateful that your husband is giving you money. However. Who would be doing all the housework and childcare if you had not given up your career? You would probably have put your children in nursery and employed a cleaner (at the very least). These costs would've come out of your joint incomes, as you would be equals. Now, instead of you as a family having two incomes and higher outgoings, you agreed (together) that you would be a SAHM. This means that your income is potentially a bit lower, but your outgoings are too. You do not suddenly become unequal though. All the income should still be shared, freely. It matters not one jot how much he gives you, it could be ten times less or double the amount. What matters is that he is in control and you can't access family money freely. This brings me on to the topic of marriage: you are partners. It's horrifying that he thinks it's OK to make his wife ask for money and for his children to go without things that can easily be afforded, because he likes to lord it over you like some Victorian factory owner. He has thousands to himself each month yet you're worrying about getting a hair cut or buying clothes for your kids. The card blocking is bullying, plain and simple. I'm really sorry to say this, as it must be painful to hear, but he can't value or respect you very much if this is how he's treating you. It's heartbreaking to read that you think you should be grateful for what he's giving you. He is abusing you, I'm so sorry.

Then a practical point: I don't know how it would work with divorce, but I imagine you'd get more than he's currently giving you, and possibly also a share of his pensions and savings and even spousal maintenance? How likely is he to want to see the children for considerable amounts of time if you do divorce? I believe the courts do take into consideration who has been the main caregiver. Also, divorce might not be great for children, but growing up in an abusive family is far, far worse. You have a son. He is likely to copy his father's behaviour. Would you be happy with him following in his foot steps?

I realise you aren't thinking about getting a divorce, but I hope at the very least the idea helps you form a clearer picture of how badly you're being treated. Don't doubt yourself, he is treating you terribly and you are right to find it difficult.

So what are you going to do OP?

He blocked a card that was for HIS son to have food.

The only way you can work is if you pay for childcare - and the amount he gives you is minimal

This is controlling and incredibly financially abusive. You do need to contact Womens Aid this is an awful relationship

I know anecdotes are not data, OP, but my parents finally split up when I was 16 after growing up in a house with this kind of dynamic.

My DM is a strong, talented, highly intelligent woman, but she had become a shell. DF had a big job which paid for our big house, but the power dynamic was so messed up.

I wish they had split up when I was much younger. I have copied the patterns and found myself in a series of relationships where I had no power and spent my time tiptoeing around, placating, living on scraps of attention.

I have had so much therapy. I learned all of my relationship behaviour from my parents.

I am 40 now and have finally learned what healthy looks like.

Please, please don't do this to your DC. It is so damaging. Way more so than a broken marriage.

I think that, if data shows unfavourable outcomes for children who's parents divorce, it is almost all to do with how amicable the split is and how the parents behave in the aftermath.

A smooth break with amicable co-parenting is so, so much better than this nightmare relationship lesson you're both giving them now.

This is so so so much worse than you realise.

If you split he won't have time to have the DC.

You would be so much better off financially, ok so no more holidays but half of the value of the house, the pensions, the savings would be yours plus monthly maintenance.

Can you imagine being able to budget and make decisions and know exactly what you have available?

You live in a gilded cage.

Start buying the DC 2nd hand clothes and buy him no gifts. His attitude towards you and the DC is disgusting.

I think @AnyFucker had this one pegged pages ago.

OP is not ready to hear this. She doesn't want to do anything about it.

If all she wants to change is him blocking his own card, then she should be able to fix that by talking to him.

We know she can't do that because he has all the power and all the control.

When you are ready to actually confront him straight out and/or leave, I am sure Mumsnet will be full of support for you. Maybe we will have planted a little seed of truth?

For now, though, I hope things improve for you, OP.

@Greyisthenewpink perhaps this has all been a bit of a shock for you, but I'll add one thing as the bit you wrote about the dcs shoes really saddened me. It might put this in perspective for you, but my exh - yes, ex husband - will transfer half the cost of dcs shoes the minute I ask. And if he's buying them I'd do the same. I can't believe that your husband makes you choose between coats and shoes for your dc. Surely you can see that's not okay?

When I was a sahm briefly, whilst married, I didn't like feeling like the money wasn't mine, but we had a joint account which I had full access to and an agreement that we could spend £50 or under without talking to the other, but more we would discuss.

I hope you seek some real life advice after this. My dc have coped and adapted to divorced parents and two homes.

Let me prefix this by saying I know this is largely my own fault.

You're OP started like this and so you clearly did not expect that you would get the response you have. You wanted to be reassured that it wasn't that bad and that you were just being ungrateful for being £600.

But this isn't what happened @Greyisthenewpink so it must have come as a huge shock to you that actually everyone who has replied to you is telling you your husband's behaviour is abhorrent, is abusive, controlling and just unforgivable.

So it must be a massive shock, what you're being told, when you didn't expect it.

But OP you do really need to read and take on board what people have said to you.

My grandfather was a very very abusive man, and as a result my father copied some of his behaviours and consequently was arrested, trialled and imprisoned. Do you want your children copying the way your husband treats you?

I have a joint account with both
My current partner and my ex husband.

With my ex it is where child benefit goes and then we both top that up per
Month. All clubs and activities are paid for from there and whoever buys clothes, uniforms and birthday party present etc (mostly me) pays with that card. Gives us full visibility and transparency as to where the money is going.

If you were divorced he would be paying you 2-3 times what he gives you now in maintenance.

Rather then abusive he could i guess just be tight and clueless. And you certainly haven't forced the issue.

My new partner vastly out earns me and i was really struggling when we got together. He was always very generous and offered to pay for a holiday for example. But i felt I couldn't say where i wanted to go as i was a proud person and not contributing. This floored him but when he saw how vulnerable i felt he totally understood and explained why i am absolutely did get a say etc.

Given you wont get a full state pension due to the gaps in your national insurance you need to tell him that all of your finances need restructuring. And that if anything happened to him you feel vulnerable as you are essentially totally in the dark about your assets as a family. Equal fun money at the end of the month once Your ni gaps are paid, healthy private pension contributions in your own name, health insurance?
Tell him you feel you havent been involved enough and want to play a more
Active role in helping managing the families
Finances-doesn't have to look like a grab for cash.

@Greyisthenewpink are you claiming child benefit or is he making provision for your private pension instead?

Certainly start claiming for it now.

Op I know it’s hard. I’m not one calling for you to leave him just yet - you clearly are no way near ready to.

Do it in steps-

1. Read and digest this thread and listen to what people are actually saying to you
2. Tell one or two people in real life the reality of your finances. Ask them if they think it’s reasonable and their opinion. They will be polite about it but I’m sure horrified. Aren’t your parents horrified? Do you tell them the reality?

You see, I don’t think it’s necessarily a LTB scenario, op. Not yet. I really believe that we teach people how to behave towards us. This is in no way telling you that you’re doing it wrong btw. I bet I can guess how this went. You fell in love with your husband, started popping out babies and, because you loved him, expected him to do as right by you as you did by him.

But some men (and women) take the piss. He has. He’s pushed it as far as he thought he could, which to be frank, is way too far.
Push back. Get mad. Some men don’t respond to tears and upset. It’s an awful thing to say but he’s probably feeling all man at the moment because his wife is completely under his command.
Fuck that, sit him down today. Calmly and with control tell him it stops now. “We’re realigning our family finances because I can’t live like this. It’s demeaning and I’m sure he doesn’t want to make his wife and life partner, mother of his children, feel so shite.
He’s supposed to be your support and cheer leader. He loves you doesn’t he?” Tell him that’s what you expect. Teach him. And then expect it.
I think you realise this is not on from the responses you’ve got, so stop the rot now.

Put away - you are victim blaming.

We cannot control how other people behave.

You say this like the husband doesn’t realise what he’s doing and if the OP points it out he’ll magically see the light and change he’s ways. All she has to do is say stop treating me like this.

It won’t work. He knows full well what he’s doing already and WANTS to do it. Because he’s abusive. It’s not because the OP has let him or not pointed out the impact on him.

Please stop victim blaming. Her saying this has to change won’t change it. He wants to treat her like this and he has no incentive or desire to change. She can’t change him.

@Putawaymewoolyhat

You see, I don’t think it’s necessarily a LTB scenario, op. Not yet. I really believe that we teach people how to behave towards us. This is in no way telling you that you’re doing it wrong btw. I bet I can guess how this went. You fell in love with your husband, started popping out babies and, because you loved him, expected him to do as right by you as you did by him. But some men (and women) take the piss. He has. He’s pushed it as far as he thought he could, which to be frank, is way too far. Push back. Get mad. Some men don’t respond to tears and upset. It’s an awful thing to say but he’s probably feeling all man at the moment because his wife is completely under his command. Fuck that, sit him down today. Calmly and with control tell him it stops now. “We’re realigning our family finances because I can’t live like this. It’s demeaning and I’m sure he doesn’t want to make his wife and life partner, mother of his children, feel so shite. He’s supposed to be your support and cheer leader. He loves you doesn’t he?” Tell him that’s what you expect. Teach him. And then expect it. I think you realise this is not on from the responses you’ve got, so stop the rot now.

This is not good advice

I imagine he gets such a thrill from being too busy and important to make his own hair appointments. I bet he's got a massive power boner when you, his PA, have to pass the phone over for the ceremonial card payment.

Is he saving for you or just him. He'll have a shock when you wake up. It sounds like he's mean even with himself, but horribly controlling.
It's all family money, it makes sense to have savings but should be discussed and you should have access. Talking about money is healthy, your kids should see this example and experience it.

Oh OP you sound absolutely broken. Your generosity is obvious in your comments as is the fact that you have been manipulated into living a small life that doesn’t impact your husband.

You have had lots of great advice and I can imagine that this has been very difficult reading, but please start doing some reading into coercive control and financial abuse because you need to take your life back and you won’t be able to do that without realising where you are.

Abuse doesn’t care how much someone earns or how many holidays they have or if they have what would be termed a “nice life”. You don’t have to be physically beaten to be in an abusive relationship. It also don’t matter what other people might feel like in your situation, it matters how you feel. Do you feel loved, respected, cared for? That should be the minimum in a relationship.

It’s fine that you think that he’s want his money, but what’s not on is that you both agreed for you to be unable to earn money by being a SAHP and then for him to refuse to provide for you. Marriage is a contract to share with your spouse. He doesn’t get to curtail your earning ability then not provide. Men have to realise that if they want their wives to do all the housework and childcare etc then they need to step up to fill the void left by only having one person available to work. If he doesn’t want to provide you with enough money to live on then he needs to take on 50% of the SAHP work to enable you to go out and earn more. If he won’t/can’t do that then he’s back to having to provide for you (which, if he was a good human, he should want to do).

From what you’ve worn, this is all about control for him. He chooses your house, your holidays, his job, what he spends his money on, what he does with his spare time. He doesn’t even need to make tedious phone calls because he gets you, his PA/nanny/housekeeper to do it for him. How incompetent is someone that they can’t possibly book a haircut? What does he do at work? Does he have any responsibility? If he can manage there, he can book an appointment. His bank card is another chance for him to control your life. He could easily get another account to spend from. You could have your own account with a card that he doesn’t need to worry about over spending on. He could give you a credit card. He could get a credit card. So many options that he chooses not to do because he enjoys being able to cancel his card as it controls you and keeps you small.

You mentioned that many people don’t even have £350 a month to live on. They tend not to have husbands (not partners, husbands) who have an annual income of nearly £200k (his salary, bonus and share dividend of £40k ID I’ve read that correctly). This is a man who will see his children go hungry and leave his wife worrying about where to find money for new shoes for his child. He is morally repugnant.

You would be financially so much better off if you were to divorce. You mentioned that you wouldn’t want the children to spend much time with him as he never does it so you’d worry about them. Think about that. You are worried about them being left in their own fathers’ care because he would be so rubbish at it. How h does he actually interact with them? If they have a distant dad who pleases himself, treats their m with contempt and refused to spend money on then they will probably grow up feeling inadequate with little self confidence and will always feel like they’re not good enough. They will always have a feeling of not being good enough because it must be them right? There’s something wrong with them because dad doesn’t want to spend time with them or won’t get them something when he’ll quite happily spend £££ on himself. They can’t earn anything either, so I guess they will have to live on the poverty line too while he adds to his £200k income. I bet you and the DC have very little impact on him and he’s basically living how he wants and will roll out his perfect family when he needs it.

You do not need to live like this. Your children do not need to live like this. Keep posting and reading the replies. There are as many ways of arranging finances as there are relationships and not all of them are abusive. This one is abusive. By all means talk to him about things if you think it will help. If you don’t want to because it’s easier not to endure the questioning or sulking etc then be aware that he is controlling your behaviour. He has taught you not to resist so you don’t have to take the consequences. He is coercing you into submission and that is illegal. The sort of behaviour he is exhibiting has been made illegal. Enough people in power had enough evidence to draft legislation to recognise, prohibit and sanction what he is doing. Take some time to process things. If you do decide to leave then there will be lots of advice on the Relationship boards on how to do it (don’t let him know what you’re planning until you’re ready. Play your cards close to your chest). Good luck OP and I wish you strength, peace and clarity x

I havent had time to RTFT but he's giving you £600 out of a take home pay of about 5 grand? Thats extremely stingey.

I used to put 2 kids in childcare for 3 days and that cost £1500 a month.
For 3 days!

Tell him hes a total mingebag.

@Greyisthenewpink
Hello OP how are you doing?