Difficult family situation

[baldafrique]

Wondering if anyone can advise on a tricky and long-standing family situation that has been stressing me out for years...

When I was about 12 (I'm now 33!) I was told by my DM that my younger brother (then 10) had been diagnosed with Aspergers. This was due to me starting to ask why he was different - never had any friends at all, other kids constantly asking me what was "wrong with him" , realised I had been part of some assessment process for him. My DM blurted it out to me and told me to NEVER tell anyone and make sure I never mentioned it to my DF either as he would be angry she had told me. Since then, I've had a few chats with her about it and it turns out my parents decided to not ever tell my brother he has ASD as they didnt want him to feel "labelled". He went to mainstream school and did well academically and has a great job now and his own house but his social relationships have continued to be poor and he has never had a partner or anything. More recently, my DM has told me that she actually did press for my brother to be told but my DF "forbade it" and basically told her that if there was fall out from telling him then it would be her fault. Its since become REALLY obvious that my DF has Aspergers himself (my DM agrees) and is worse affected than my brother even. His behaviours have always been quite extreme and I've spent my life trying to work out why he isnt like other fathers in so many ways. My DM is completely controlled by it all - she constantly walks on eggshells but feels she can never pull him up on his behaviour as "he gets so nasty" (verbally) and also "I guess he cant help it anyway as he likely has ASD so what's the point". She doesnt dare mention the possibility of ASD to him as apparently he would go ballistic. I can well imagine this - the whole family tip toes around him and his peculiarities. He is very obsessional and controlling and anxious. But refuses to do anything about it at all.

The whole situation gets me down so much and I dont even know why. I think it's the way everyone in the family is constantly pussyfooting around someone who doesnt even have a formal diagnosis and would refuse to get one. I also feel so guilty knowing my DB has ASD when he doesnt know himself and guilty ever confiding in people about this (eg my DH) as I feel I'm betraying my DM who is in a shit position herself.

Any thoughts would be so welcome - I can see the woods for the trees here :(

@Miasicarisatia Hes insanely bright (no emotionally tho!). Yeah I think it is classic bullying behaviour tbh. Hes done it a couple of times in restaurants too when stressed about the bill or whatever and it's pretty vile to witness. Only a couple of times but it was exactly how he can treat close family. Is never like it with family friends or extended family of course!

luckily for him he managed to trap your mum into smoothing the way for him - at the expense of her mental and physical well being (not that he gives a sh1t)
Exactly this.

Haven't read the whole thread so I apologise if I'm repeating what others have said but your brother definitely needs to have his ASD flagged up to him (even if, as other posters have suggested, you open the conversation by mentioning your father's behaviour).

My son was diagnosed with autism when he was very young but I wasn't sure when or how to tell him. A local charity ran workshops for families on 'Telling Your Child About Their Diagnosis' as their attitude was that people DEFINITELY need to know. The ideal age for being told, they suggested, was about nine years old.

Only a couple of times but it was exactly how he can treat close family. Is never like it with family friends or extended family of course!
I would suggest that he knows exactly what he is doing and exactly what he can get away with! He considers immediate family to be his subjects and he likes to keep them under control.

@GML107

I am posting from the perspective of an autistic women, who is part of an autistic family.

As others have said, like those with the predominant neurotype (non-autistics) autistic people can be abusers too. However, it sounds like your dad doesn’t have any confidence. Plus, those around him do not respect his needs or show him any compassion, especially around his differences in relation to socialising, therefore he’s often anxious, is made to feel like he’s in the wrong, so he gets angry and tries to assert greater control to cope as his life feels out of control. If you look at how autistic young people were treated in the 60s/70s their natural differences were seen as deviant behaviour that needed to be punished - did your father grow up in a setting of abuse, therefore, that’s the only way he knows how to cope?

From your posts the impression that I get is that you haven't met or looked at much literature from the autistic community, so your views are old fashioned and you see autism as a problem, when actually the problem is how others view autism and treat autistic people.

It's natural for people to think their way is better. I am surrounded by neighbours who are stereotypical PNT women. They have lots of superficial relationships, waste hours talking about mundane, pointless rubbish and they go to social events due to the pressure to socially accepted not because they want to be there. Consequently, they spend a lot of time slagging other people off on the street corner as they have miserable little lives that are dictated by the need to fit in rather than meeting their own needs.

On the other hand, I have one friend who would be there for me in a heartbeat if I needed her. I also have my daughter and husband to socialise with. As a family of autistics, we do things because we want to not because our lives are dictated by others. I am incredibly grateful that we are not shackled by the need for social acceptance. I do feel incredibly sorry for my neighbours and in my view their behaviour is disordered but how would vocalising this and treating these people as lesser help, such as suggesting they went to support groups in relation to their behaviour help? It wouldn't, it would needlessly affect their self-esteem, aspirations etc when it would be much better to make the effort to accept and embrace their natural differences.

You say your brother has a good job, own house and he socialises as a stereotypical autistic person. From the autistic view point it sounds like he has a great life.

Why do you feel he has a problem?
What benefits would it add to his life telling him that society views him as being disordered/disabled?
What negatives could that bring?

No, I don't agree. Autism IS a problem, it is not just how it is responded to that is a problem. Someone behaving like the father in this scenario will be upsetting and frightening. Yes, he might have been abused, but the way he responds to others is also abusive.

Also, your comments about neighbours talking "mundane, pointless rubbish." Mundane to you, obviously. Pointless to you. People's interests vary. You misunderstand a lot of human behaviour if you assume that someone you (being autistic) are free while others are shackled to expectations. And those people probably don't need or welcome your pity either-stop feeling sorry for them, that just makes you come over as superior and unpleasant.

Several people are autistic in my husband's family. his parents (undiagnosed) are very like the OP's father, judging by what she has written. And our son is also autistic. So I am not talking from a position of ignorance.

OP,

He turns it on and off.

Classic abuser.

@spoons123 That workshop sounds like it was so useful. Really interesting about their sense that around 9 was an appropriate age - makes sense, old enough to understand and in time for the high school years that can be challenging enough. I wish there had been workshops like that in the 90s, sounds so helpful. I'm definitely going to have a chat with my DB when I see him next.

@Miasicarisatia @billy1966 Really interesting. There are definitely people he pushes it with way more eg if he can get away with it like DM, DB and I when growing up (esp DB), restaurant staff who who annoy him, medical staff sometimes, definitely people he used to manage at work (having overheard the rant to one of them that was breathtaking). The root cause may be stress and anxiety but it's not acceptable and it really is bullying behaviour.

I think he has majorly learnt that behaving like that is rewarding as it stops others expecting much of him or challenging him...pretty adaptive really I think where I've always gone wrong was trying to work out whether he has ASD himself OR is abusive/a bully when the idea that it could be both passed me by!

restaurant staff who who annoy him, medical staff sometimes, definitely people he used to manage at work
in other words people whom he considers to be subordinate, and this is how he feels about the family members he orders around; that they are inferior and should obey him without question.

@GML107

I am posting from the perspective of an autistic women, who is part of an autistic family.

As others have said, like those with the predominant neurotype (non-autistics) autistic people can be abusers too. However, it sounds like your dad doesn’t have any confidence. Plus, those around him do not respect his needs or show him any compassion, especially around his differences in relation to socialising, therefore he’s often anxious, is made to feel like he’s in the wrong, so he gets angry and tries to assert greater control to cope as his life feels out of control. If you look at how autistic young people were treated in the 60s/70s their natural differences were seen as deviant behaviour that needed to be punished - did your father grow up in a setting of abuse, therefore, that’s the only way he knows how to cope?

From your posts the impression that I get is that you haven't met or looked at much literature from the autistic community, so your views are old fashioned and you see autism as a problem, when actually the problem is how others view autism and treat autistic people.

It's natural for people to think their way is better. I am surrounded by neighbours who are stereotypical PNT women. They have lots of superficial relationships, waste hours talking about mundane, pointless rubbish and they go to social events due to the pressure to socially accepted not because they want to be there. Consequently, they spend a lot of time slagging other people off on the street corner as they have miserable little lives that are dictated by the need to fit in rather than meeting their own needs.

On the other hand, I have one friend who would be there for me in a heartbeat if I needed her. I also have my daughter and husband to socialise with. As a family of autistics, we do things because we want to not because our lives are dictated by others. I am incredibly grateful that we are not shackled by the need for social acceptance. I do feel incredibly sorry for my neighbours and in my view their behaviour is disordered but how would vocalising this and treating these people as lesser help, such as suggesting they went to support groups in relation to their behaviour help? It wouldn't, it would needlessly affect their self-esteem, aspirations etc when it would be much better to make the effort to accept and embrace their natural differences.

You say your brother has a good job, own house and he socialises as a stereotypical autistic person. From the autistic view point it sounds like he has a great life.

Why do you feel he has a problem?
What benefits would it add to his life telling him that society views him as being disordered/disabled?
What negatives could that bring?

Me too.

But I find few things as boring, mundane and disinteresting as another Autistic person wittering on about how great it is that they can treat other people like shit on the grounds that they are exempt from the social conventions of being polite, kind and considerate of other people's needs and feelings.

My brother managed to grow up being treated abominably by the ND woman who birthed us without becoming an abusive, controlling arsehole. I do my best not to be and my life and career path has been immeasurably improved by not hiding behind a diagnosis and taking time to learn and abide by the prevalent codes of behaviour in society. It's also fascinating to hear of other people's motivations and passions, interests and opinions, whether I agree with them or not.

The benefits that could be brought to the OP's brother's life could be;

Understanding that he isn't inherently dislikeable.
Understanding why he finds certain things difficult or too much for him.
Finding new ways to mitigate the effects of those difficult/overwhelming things and how to use those techniques in ways that challenge him in a safe, controlled way and enable him to achieve things he wanted to do but did not feel they were possible for unknown, secret reasons that had not been shared with him.
Benefitting from legal protection at work and to have the right to reasonable adjustments.
Self awareness.
Developing further skills that may lead to something he wants in terms of a significant romantic relationship.
Knowing he isn't being lied to/something is being kept from him and denied him - when it's a fundamental part of his being.
Benefitting from greater leeway from people because it's recognised he may have misunderstood or the environment is difficult for him and therefore he doesn't end up getting lamped, told he's a creep or fired because he's said something that seems reasonable to him but is completely unacceptable to others. The skill of knowing there are things you are perfectly at liberty to think but you don't have to say is very handy in life.
Being happy in his life and in himself. Because it's much nicer knowing that there is a reason why some things haven't come 'naturally' or easily to him, rather than that he is just a bit crap and nobody likes him.

I would go on, but I'm aware this might appear a little esoteric or uncomfortable to others whose only experiences of Autism are the self centred arseholes bereft of human sensitivity who don't give a shit about anybody else's feelings or opinions that current Autistic theory seem to be propagating. Carry on being the stereotype if you so wish - but for those who do have the potential to develop and grow, don't deliberately hold them back just because it might mean you could be expected to show some degree of consideration.

....also want to add that when we did start to let my son know about his ASD, we 'dripped' it into the conversation. There was no sitting him down and announcing it, we just started to say things like, "When you got upset earlier, it might have been because you've got Asperger's," or, "People with Asperger's are often frightened of dogs," and so on.

I wonder if the idea of your brother's ASD could be suggested gradually in a subtle way, mentioning things your dad has done and things you have read about autism? As he's an adult, it might be enough to get him doing some research for himself.

@NeverDropYourMoonCup
What a fantastic post! I genuinely think my DB would benefit from knowing his diagnosis for all of the reasons you stated and would probably use it as a starting point for understanding himself and working towards goals eg relationships, having proper friends

@spoons123
That approach sounds really good. I've mentioned the topic of ASD more broadly before to him (eg talking about Chris Packham or others) and my DM has shot me daggers! But she wont be there for his conversation

[quote HelpfulBelle]@ForwardRanger

DS1's very recent report says 'Autism Level 1, otherwise known as Asperger's'.[/quote]
Yes it has been known as that. It's a pity it wasn't explained to you that it's changed, doesn't give one confidence in the service 😔

Blimey OP, your dad is such a bully. I hope that the fantastic advice in here will help you and your brother make big changes.