Difficult family situation

[baldafrique]

Wondering if anyone can advise on a tricky and long-standing family situation that has been stressing me out for years...

When I was about 12 (I'm now 33!) I was told by my DM that my younger brother (then 10) had been diagnosed with Aspergers. This was due to me starting to ask why he was different - never had any friends at all, other kids constantly asking me what was "wrong with him" , realised I had been part of some assessment process for him. My DM blurted it out to me and told me to NEVER tell anyone and make sure I never mentioned it to my DF either as he would be angry she had told me. Since then, I've had a few chats with her about it and it turns out my parents decided to not ever tell my brother he has ASD as they didnt want him to feel "labelled". He went to mainstream school and did well academically and has a great job now and his own house but his social relationships have continued to be poor and he has never had a partner or anything. More recently, my DM has told me that she actually did press for my brother to be told but my DF "forbade it" and basically told her that if there was fall out from telling him then it would be her fault. Its since become REALLY obvious that my DF has Aspergers himself (my DM agrees) and is worse affected than my brother even. His behaviours have always been quite extreme and I've spent my life trying to work out why he isnt like other fathers in so many ways. My DM is completely controlled by it all - she constantly walks on eggshells but feels she can never pull him up on his behaviour as "he gets so nasty" (verbally) and also "I guess he cant help it anyway as he likely has ASD so what's the point". She doesnt dare mention the possibility of ASD to him as apparently he would go ballistic. I can well imagine this - the whole family tip toes around him and his peculiarities. He is very obsessional and controlling and anxious. But refuses to do anything about it at all.

The whole situation gets me down so much and I dont even know why. I think it's the way everyone in the family is constantly pussyfooting around someone who doesnt even have a formal diagnosis and would refuse to get one. I also feel so guilty knowing my DB has ASD when he doesnt know himself and guilty ever confiding in people about this (eg my DH) as I feel I'm betraying my DM who is in a shit position herself.

Any thoughts would be so welcome - I can see the woods for the trees here :(

@Dacquoise
Yep I am definitely scared of him and totally get why my DM is too. He either gets unbelievably nasty, completely and utterly cold in a way that's incomprehensible or has these anxious meltdown things, all equally awful.

@GurlwiththeCurl They're definitely pretty different. My DB doesnt tend to be unpleasant to people, aside from my DM strangely, he is quite bullying to her. I think hes copied this a bit from our DF.

Your Mum was doing all of that to protect herself.

Possibly she didn't want the shame and financial reality of divorcing.

What job did your Dad do?

@RandomMess IT! Very high up. Always stressed to the hilt and retired early.

@RandomMess Doing all what to protect herself, sorry?

You’ve been really let down by your parents. And be warned...having a baby is basically one massive trigger of all of your childhood issues. When you look at your baby, toddler, child and imagine treating them like you were treated. All the anger comes out. Or you say something that sounds just like what your mum would say.

@SwanShaped Pregnancy has definitely brought all of this to the fore. Find myself thinking about it a lot of the time.

[quote baldafrique]@Dacquoise
Yep I am definitely scared of him and totally get why my DM is too. He either gets unbelievably nasty, completely and utterly cold in a way that's incomprehensible or has these anxious meltdown things, all equally awful.[/quote]
There you go. That's why she's enabled (tried to 'manage' him).

And what a waste of her life, eh?
25+ years of marriage comes down to spending your life crying in toilets.

And she hasn't managed to shield the children from it.

So horrible and depressing.

It's worth thinking about the fact that your anger probably is grounded in your recognition of your own powerlessness to do anything fir her (your power here is incredibly limited - it really is, however much you care, or try, it really is limited) plus your perception that, actually, you have been made to suffer too.

So, don't feel guilty. It's all reasonable and understandable as a response to a really horrible situation.

In fact, the one thing I would wish for you is that you are gifted a sense of freedom from all this. And it's a gift that will probably grow from an awareness, then a belief, that none of this is your fault. And that your life - right now - has opportunities to create far more welcoming, nurturing and life-enhancing structures.

Your own family can be a place where wishes and desires of all members can be recognised and balanced, where you work to create love and confidence in your children. Where you aren't afraid of or dominated by one family member. Where you deal with issues by acknowledging them , and impart a real sense in your children that they can cope with whatever life brings - not try and force reality to submit to the will of one family member.

You don't have to live like that. It's your life: it can be you-shaped.

And it will fit you much better, and give you far more joy, when it is you-shaped.

Life is both far too short, and far too long, to submit your life to the pattern imposed by someone who doesn't have your happiness as their top priority.

It's hard not to feel sorry for my DF but maybe that not the best path to go down! A poster up thread spoke about 'accommodating' and that's exactly what is has been and always is. We (other family) have been constantly accommodating him. It is just awful. My DM's friend was attacked (raped) by a stranger and she was obviously so upset to hear and she told him and he said "why are you telling me, what do you expect me to do about it?" and it was never mentioned again. Stuff like that just breaks my heart for my DM but I dont know why and in any case it's up to her to put up with it isnt it.

The enabling and accommodation of your Dad by your Mum was to protect herself from his wrath.

I have Adhd. Occasionally when I mention it to my mum, she gets pretty upset, particularly if I say I told X person or that I might seek treatment.

We've discussed it & she points out for her generation, any typd of diagnosis was a real stigma & had consequences. People were institutionalised & never came out, including very close family members.

That said, it sounds like there's a fair bit of abuse going on. Same with my family. I swear I have secondary anxiety from being witness to lots of drama & angst. It's only now with the benefit of time & often distance, I see it was bad & abusive in many ways.

Talk to your DB. Let your parents stew, they have choices. They may never change & it's fruitless & frustrating to make them see your perspective.

Look after yourself.

Remember a diagnosis changes everything & nothing when talking to your brother.

@thecatfromjapan
Thank you so much. I've read your post twice already and it resonates with me on a deep level. I will continue reading it and reflecting on it (and the other wise words on this thread). I really am so very grateful for your thoughts and reflections on this, it feels like very deep stuff. I'm determined to have a different balance in my own little family without the needs of one dominating the others. How utterly freeing!!!!!!!!

@RandomMess Ah yes, 100%. She has stood up to him a handful of times and ended up shell shocked. I've seen in a couple of times and it was quite terrifying actually in a way that's hard to explain. She uses the word "unhinged". Hes done quite well to shape behaviour, it has to be said! My DB is better at standing up to him and used to a lot as a teen which never went down well but even he finds it a bit much sometimes and upsetting - he thinks DF has deep "issues".

I can totally understand the fear but my experience has been that when you do stand up to them (with lots of therapist support) you start to see them as they really are and not the tyrannical monsters they have become in your mind.

At my final meeting with my DM she was using the full arsenal of insults, guilt trips and puts downs and all of it went over my head. It was almost funny. I told her the truth, ignored her gaslighting and although she refused to accept it I walked away authentic, head high and not giving a monkeys what she or anyone else thought. Priceless. Best thing I ever did for myself.

I hope you get there @baldafrique. It's such a waste of life to live like that in someone else's mess. Perhaps get some therapy to build yourself up?

I am posting from the perspective of an autistic women, who is part of an autistic family.

As others have said, like those with the predominant neurotype (non-autistics) autistic people can be abusers too. However, it sounds like your dad doesn’t have any confidence. Plus, those around him do not respect his needs or show him any compassion, especially around his differences in relation to socialising, therefore he’s often anxious, is made to feel like he’s in the wrong, so he gets angry and tries to assert greater control to cope as his life feels out of control. If you look at how autistic young people were treated in the 60s/70s their natural differences were seen as deviant behaviour that needed to be punished - did your father grow up in a setting of abuse, therefore, that’s the only way he knows how to cope?

From your posts the impression that I get is that you haven't met or looked at much literature from the autistic community, so your views are old fashioned and you see autism as a problem, when actually the problem is how others view autism and treat autistic people.

It's natural for people to think their way is better. I am surrounded by neighbours who are stereotypical PNT women. They have lots of superficial relationships, waste hours talking about mundane, pointless rubbish and they go to social events due to the pressure to socially accepted not because they want to be there. Consequently, they spend a lot of time slagging other people off on the street corner as they have miserable little lives that are dictated by the need to fit in rather than meeting their own needs.

On the other hand, I have one friend who would be there for me in a heartbeat if I needed her. I also have my daughter and husband to socialise with. As a family of autistics, we do things because we want to not because our lives are dictated by others. I am incredibly grateful that we are not shackled by the need for social acceptance. I do feel incredibly sorry for my neighbours and in my view their behaviour is disordered but how would vocalising this and treating these people as lesser help, such as suggesting they went to support groups in relation to their behaviour help? It wouldn't, it would needlessly affect their self-esteem, aspirations etc when it would be much better to make the effort to accept and embrace their natural differences.

You say your brother has a good job, own house and he socialises as a stereotypical autistic person. From the autistic view point it sounds like he has a great life.

Why do you feel he has a problem?
What benefits would it add to his life telling him that society views him as being disordered/disabled?
What negatives could that bring?

@GML107 Thank you for your perspectives, really helpful. My DF had a horrible childhood - lovely parents but a really rough time at school with kids of bullying from what I understand. I definitely think his problems relate to not being understood etc. The problem though is he has never sought help or anything (he doesnt have an ASD diagnosis, it's just what my DM felt might be the case having learnt more about it when DB was diagnosed) so noone has known how to act with him other than lots of accommodation and walking on eggshells (but not in a very effective way). If he had a diagnosis, I think the family would have been more responsive etc. Everyone is scared of him basically.

@GML107 He was also treated terribly by teachers with regards to his anxieties at school (as you say very much 60s/70s ways, awful)

I would be saying to your 'D'F that ASD is heritable and that your DB inherited it from him.

DS1 has Asperger's and ADHD; I think DH has ASD and I have ADHD.

This is why my DM feels really sad for him and doesnt challenge him on tricky behaviours - she feels that he cannot help it so it wouldnt fair to and that he cant cope with any challenge (not saying this is right, just this is her approach and what others upthead consider to be enabling etc). This is the crux of it I think and why everyone is quite stuck. I guess a key aspect is whether or not he does have ASD as he hasnt had a diagnosis or anything, its conjecture.

There definitely seems to be a lack of communication skills running throughout your family, which seems to be at the core of the issues you face. You say he hasn't sought any help but has anyone else? I am not excusing any negative behavior but your dad seems to have taken on the role of the bad guy, so whatever he does it seems have a negative spin but on it.

For example, you stated

"My DM's friend was attacked (raped) by a stranger and she was obviously so upset to hear and she told him and he said "why are you telling me, what do you expect me to do about it?" and it was never mentioned again. Stuff like that just breaks my heart for my DM but I dont know why and in any case it's up to her to put up with it isnt it."

However, on the other hand it could be read that my dad is autistic, he's very conscious that how he naturally reacts has always been seen as a negative throughout life and due to this he has severe anxiety around social situations. When my mum approached him about a situation and he didn't know how to cope he acted in a very mature and caring way and asked "why are you telling me, what do you expect me to do about it? so he could gauge the appropriate social response. However, as we've decided he's the bad guy we rejected his efforts and made out he'd behaved inappropriately again.

He probably is quite aware of his condition. My dd is autistic and at the age of 9 told me she had done lots of research and this was her diagnosis! at which point I came clean and told her she had been diagnosed at 2.5. High functioning autism (there's no diagnosis of Aspergers now, just asd) doesn't stop self awareness

@GML107 Could be. He shouted this at her by the way, when she was in tears about her friend. I do think there is a complete lack of communication between my parents and have never really understood why she cant raise stuff with him. Tho then again she says she has tried and been screamed at so I dont know.

If it was me:

• tell DB
• tell DM you’ll always love her but you aren’t continuing this bs any longer. You’re having a baby and they won’t be subjected to the cycle of lies
• tell DM that she needs to start being her own person and the cancelling because DF isn’t going needs to stop
• accept that DF will likely be a non existent GP from the get go and thus have no expectation of him
• stop covering for DF and let him be responsible for his own rudeness

@minniemomo Wow! That's impressive at 9 y/o Its definitely possible my DB has done some research in adulthood (not in childhood as we barely had internet then!)