It’s me again with the critical John Lewis obsessed parents who mean well

[TooStressyTooMessy]

Hi all,

I have posted about this before (pre-Covid) under a slightly different username.

I have two DDs, age 8 and 10. Married to DH and we have been together forever (to be clear he is the father of DDs).

I used to have a great (or so I thought) relationship with my parents until I had children. They mean well and absolutely adore our DDs. HOWEVER, I find being with them incredibly stressful. They live a few hours away so are not really involved in our day-to-day lives although we speak on the phone.

They very much want to be ‘fun’ grandparents and this is where the problems start. They think we are too strict, especially DH. They do not like any kind of discipline at all, eg if we told them to use a knife and fork at the table, not to rub off from the table, asked them to help us tidy their rooms, then my parents would view that as too strict. They do not like the children to cry or be sad when they visit or we visit them. I suppose they are Disney grandparents. That would be fine, that is the joy of being grandparents. Except if we tell the kids off for anything at all then my parents eye roll, tut, and often have to go and have a lie down because they get so upset to see a child upset. I really wish I was joking. We can never play a board game or anything like that with them as they become sad if DC lose and get upset.

I am absolutely not too strict and neither is DH although he is stricter than me. I have really struggled with discipline and did a parenting course when they were younger where I was told in no uncertain tones that I needed to be stricter. So I am by no means an ogre.

Basically they hate DH (loved him pre kids), think I am too strict and not capable of parenting, and think the children are growing up in a terrible environment. There is NO abuse. They really just do seem to think that setting boundaries and parenting, eg telling a child it is bedtime and asking them to turn off the telly, asking them not to run off in a busy street (ore-Covid) is cruel.

I got lots of advice on here and actually eventually stood up to them. Told them I was an adult, DH and I are the parents not them. We saw them one more time which was tense but ok and then Covid came.

Of course Covid itself has been truly horrific. But not having to see my parents has been wonderful .

They are coming up for a weekend in May when overnight stays are allowed. I am dreading it. I am already stressed and nagging DH to fix some stuff around the house which needs to be done before they come. I times my Dad one visit and it took him seconds to criticise something from walking in. So DH and I are arguing about it which is the usual way of things and makes me stressed before I have even seen them. He is also upset as it is obvious they do not like him.

They have already suggested us going to the nearest City for a John Lewis shopping trip. I have said no and my mum was surprised and disappointed. I have already said repeatedly that a busy town centre is not a relaxing environment when they will then want to take DDs in and be surprised they want to buy everything in sight. Let alone with the Covid situation - it is not a fun experience! They live not too far from London and can easily go to John Lewis there so I am not depriving them!

I realise this is an opportunity to move forward. It has been over a year since we saw them. I am desperate not to go back to feeling like a child desperate for their approval and them making it clear they think we are bad parents. They are not involved in my parenting usually so why do I feel on show so much when they do come?

TLDR: any tips on moving forward with a more adult relationship with my parents after the natural break of lockdown.

I have never experienced the behaviour from anyone else so I really don’t know if I would accept it. I suspect if people came into my house and implied I was a terrible parent and my kids were being damaged then I would stop and think if they were right or not. But no, probably not. Weirdly I have no problem disciplining the kids when I’m with my in-laws. They never seem to need much disciplining then though.

Definitely spinning plates but it has been so long since I did it I just don’t know if I can go back to it. The thought of seeing them makes me feel so nervous for how to get everybody to get along.

I can ignore my mother's behaviour, but would never expect a partner to put up with it. Being treated crappily by in-laws is more stressful; they have never been your parents so it feels all wrong being treated like their child.

I have two sisters and would say that the one my mother leaves in peace best is the one where neither the sister or the husband would put up with that shit - they are both skilled at being good-humoured but firm, and don't take her seriously. My mother is far more careful with them - just whispers about them behind their back not that it would bother them. My other sister is the least self-confident of us all and more worried about keeping the peace, and my mother is the absolute worst with her and her child.

No, if my brother walked in and said that I’d laugh and tell him to fuck off (or something politer if kids around) . I’d tell him we were busy trying to work and parent during a pandemic and I’d put it on a to do list. Then we’d laugh and I’d put the kettle on.

It requires a monumental effort on my part to keep them happy while also keeping my kids behaving and keeping my DH quiet. I actually don’t think I can do it anymore. Especially as I start days in advance basically begging them to behave. I run around the kids and DH just firefighting the whole time and nothing I say works anyway.

You shouldn’t do it any more. Seriously.

You are prioritising them over your family unit because they behave badly. That’s the crux of it. They want to control and undermine you and you are encouraging it by rewarding that behaviour with your effort and attention.

You start winding your family up to a fever pitch of stress days in advance. Start hassling your husband to fix things because they’re visiting weeks ahead. So it’s already not ‘just a few days’. Your kids are on edge before they even arrive. You reinforce to your your husband that while your parents are there, he is worthless to you and lower than dirt in the hierarchy because at least dirt just shuts up and is happy to be treated like dirt.

Would you reward such shitty, rude behaviour in anyone else?

And anyway - it doesn’t work. You know that. Not because your family doesn’t play ball but because your parents don’t. Even if it’s perfect they’ll find something. They want to criticise you. They know it hurts you, because you’ve told them. They don’t care.

Why do you?

I am definitely your other sister raven, I really feel for her. See even the whispering behind my back would bother me hugely.

I suppose I think if my own parents view me as an abject failure then there must be some truth in that.

You start winding your family up to a fever pitch of stress days in advance this is 100% true. Even before they come we have all argued multiple times.

No, if my brother walked in and said that I’d laugh and tell him to fuck off (or something politer if kids around) grin. I’d tell him we were busy trying to work and parent during a pandemic and I’d put it on a to do list. Then we’d laugh and I’d put the kettle on.

Yep, and that’s the right way to do it! Because you’re both adults, and equals.

At the ‘I want visitors to have a good time’ level, you have to remember that your guests have a responsibility for enabling that as much as the hosts. Your parents are, at a purely social level, incredibly bad guests. If it were anyone else they wouldn’t get invited back, right?

Yeah I really think they want to criticise actually. My Dad especially ALWAYS thinks things could be better. He would think things can always be improved and that he was being helpful pointing out things to work on.

The thought of seeing them makes me feel so nervous for how to get everybody to get along.

Why is that your job? I mean really fundamentally - why?

You say the kids behave much better with your in laws. You know why that is, right?

You stop OP. Refuse to do it any more. I know the thought is scary, but the reality is never as bad once you’ve decided it’s not your responsibility. You know your parents are going to sigh and tut and make comments - that’s their choice. You can’t control it so choose to just not see or hear it. You can’t control how your DDs behave by begging or pleading with them in advance, so choose not to do that and just deal with whatever happens during the visit the exact same way you would if your parents weren’t there. Choose to show your DH and DC affection instead of getting stressed with them, you might be surprised how much they reciprocate! When you put so much effort into doing what you think might have a chance of pleasing your parents, even though you know it won’t work, you make yourself feel less of an adult, and less of a good parent yourself. Don’t put yourself down, you are strong and capable, and doing just fine by your girls. If you weren’t your ILs and other family members would notice and say something too. It’s neither your fault nor your responsibility that your parents’ thoughts on parenting are frankly a bit odd. Let it go.

I know and I we are all so much relaxed with my in-laws. I view it as my job as if I don’t do it things will completely implode. The kids will be wild, my DH will eventually lose his shit and both my parents will cry or shout.

What prompted me to speak to the more-Covid was an absolutely appalling day out (as part of a longer visit). We ended up W j my DH and parents having a shouting argument in a busy City centre (over where to go for lunch of all places) and me trying to stop the kids from messing around and running off. I was genuinely concerned the kids would get lost and I then had to run off to DH (with the kids), beg him to come back to my parents and then phone my parents and we all met in a restaurant and had an incredibly uncomfortable meal. It was horrific and I was genuinely concerned for the children’s safety. It’s the closest I have ever come to losing the kids somewhere. That is the worst it has ever been. So you ask why I try to smooth things out? If I hadn’t on that particularly occasion God knows what would have happened although I suppose the kids would have been safe and I could have left my parents to walk off.

YES you make yourself feel less of an adult, and less of a good parent yourself exactly this. I never feel like the competent adult I am when I am with them. I feel like a child.

I then had to run off to DH (with the kids), beg him to come back to my parents and then phone my parents
"Had to? What do you think a confident person would have done?

ravenmum a confident person would have ignored my parents and taken the kids for lunch on their own (with or without DH depending on their mood!)

But then would also have had the kids crying their eyes out wanting my parents so I’m not sure how that would have gone either.

So you ask why I try to smooth things out? If I hadn’t on that particularly occasion God knows what would have happened although I suppose the kids would have been safe and I could have left my parents to walk off.

Yes! You could have. You stick with the kids. Your parents aren’t your responsibility.

So what would have happened? You’d have stayed with the kids and taken them to McDonald’s. Your husband would have had space to get over it. Your parents would have massively got the hump because you weren’t all dancing to their tune and treating them like King and Queen Muck.

So what? They were indulging in a screaming argument in the street! Remove your kids from that quick smart, I don’t want my kids to see behaviour like that let alone think it’s ok!

I just wrote a MASSIVE post about my mother’s experience with her mum than the internet ate by suddenly reloading the page. The upshot was - she dealt with behaviour like your parents’ from her mum for decades. She danced to her mother’s tune, accepted that she was a shit mother, everything was her fault about her kids’ behaviour etc etc. It wasn’t until my 20s that she finally stood up to her - through the simple method of not going grovelling after an argument as she usually would.

It was a turning point - my grandmother finally called about a fortnight later and made no reference to the argument (diatribe from my grandmother) instead of holding it over her head for days as usual. It took a few years to really reset their relationship but by showing she wouldn’t always dance to my grandmother’s tune she took away that power. And by the time my grandmother died years later, they had a much better and more equal relationship and my mum knew her mother didn’t actually think she was a failure - that was just her method for exerting power and control.

The confident person would then reassure the kids that their gps love them very much but are now on the naughty step untl they learn to behave properly. A quick discussion about why their behaviour was unacceptable, perhaps, then get back to having a nice lunch. The confident person's children haven't been trained to respond to drama as if it is real, so are just baffled by it rather than upset.

You sound so sensible and reasonable on every other aspect apart from your parents, OP :) that you should be more confident. Therapy helps :)

You need to take an enormous step back from trying to please them all the time. They need to accept that in your house your way of parenting and your rules take precedence. Please do not think of setting no rules for the children during their visit, you are pandering to them and let them define the narrative. Similarly the whole „this is a happy time“ business, this needs to be challenged. They dont get to decide that. In the nicest possible way, you need to get tough and dish out some discipline, but to your parents and not your kids. You are enabling them. United front with dh, no changes to house rules, and dont let yourself be put down. You could also think of being honest and tell them about the cloud you feel under, and that you prefer them to Airbnb for this reason...

But then would also have had the kids crying their eyes out wanting my parents so I’m not sure how that would have gone either.

You would have given your kids a really important lesson. Do you usually give in to them when they’re crying their eyes out, even if it’s not good for them?

‘We can’t agree on where to eat and you all saw that the other grown ups were getting a bit stressed about it, so it’s best if we just give everyone a bit of time to calm down and we’ll meet up later on. Nothing to cry about, just a good chance for everyone to have a bit of space, just like you need when you’re feeling cross. Now, who wants a Happy Meal?’

@TooStressyTooMessy

I am definitely your other sister raven, I really feel for her. See even the whispering behind my back would bother me hugely.

I suppose I think if my own parents view me as an abject failure then there must be some truth in that.

What is really sad, is that by constantly begging your kids to be better, to be perfect, to be ‘good’ you are setting them up to feel exactly as you do.

I know that you don’t mean this but the message they are absorbing is that they aren’t good enough.

What your parents see when they visit is you and DH at odds with each other, both of you stressed, him cross, and DC acting up. They then assume that’s what your house is like all the time. You know that’s not true.

What your parents see when they visit is you and DH at odds with each other, both of you stressed, him cross, and DC acting up. They then assume that’s what your house is like all the time. You know that’s not true. That in a nutshell is the issue. They think we are always like this.

I’m horrified to think I might be inflicting this on my kids in that way Av, food for thought definitely.

I will have to look into some kind of therapy as I know the key is for me just not to be stressed when I see them but once you are stressed it is incredibly difficult to get out of that.

The crux of this is that nothing will change until you understand, really UNDERSTAND that you are not responsible for your parents happiness or mood. And that they are behaving absolutely atrociously.