37 and want a husband/family

[Loveadvicepls]

A good friend of mine met a guy last year and is moving in with him already. Her ex was a total commitment phobeand dumped her as soon as she started to get serious about moving to be with him.

Another friend has just announced she's pregnant and I'm so happy for her. And another friend is getting married this summer.

Yet here I am, 1.5 years in, and the future is not spoken about with my boyfriend. The fact that we don't talk about it, makes me think there's no point in bringing it up- he alludes to one day, as in the future being able to afford an expensive home, and he's thinking of purchasing a big car for possible kids one day, but I suspect he's not a realist and a commitment phobe himself.

I'm scared of starting dating again, it just gets harder and harder, and I've been here so many times before.

But I should also draw inspiration from my friend who has found love, and when it works, it just works and can happen quickly.

Not sure what I want from this post.

Any advice?

Please please move on.
I could have written your post and I'm now 42 with no ring, no children and a whole bunch of bitterness at the wanker that strung me along.
I'm in a happy relationship now, but kids are off the table.
Think very carefully about your future with him.

@Loveadvicepls

He said he can’t give me what I want right now I explained I’m not asking anything from him right now, I just want to know if we are on the same page for the not so distant future He says he just doesn’t know This is so infuriating He’s not suddenly going to magically decide overnight is he? Now the thought of losing him is awful as it’s a real possibility But at the same time he can’t love me properly if he’s so unsure

The more I'm reading this the more I think he's such a wanker. He's 43. Of course he knows what he wants. He's hoping hang on in there for just a little bit longer so you truly become infertile and decide to stay with him, or he's hoping that you will stay with him regardless of the fact that he doesn't want children and just doesn't want to be honest about it.

The more I'm reading this the more I think he's such a wanker. He's 43. Of course he knows what he wants.

100% and at that age he has been round this multiple times over probably the last 15 years with many different women who’s fertile years he has wasted. The SUV comment was throwing you a disingenuous bone. As PP has said - he is gaslighting you. The not now / not ready means No.

He’s hardly holding out for a bit longer so that he will be potty training at 50 with teenagers to support and deal with in retirement.

It's quite simple. You've made a choice. It's him over having children. This is fair enough, but he seems to either genuinely not want kids or he's not into you and he'll end up having kids with someone younger when he hits 50. Hugh Grant reminds me of that type. Men can afford to play around and have babies in their 50s or 60s.

@Moomin12345

It's quite simple. You've made a choice. It's him over having children. This is fair enough, but he seems to either genuinely not want kids or he's not into you and he'll end up having kids with someone younger when he hits 50. Hugh Grant reminds me of that type. Men can afford to play around and have babies in their 50s or 60s.

Have you actually read the updates?

She doesn’t appear to have chosen him over kids to me. She’s had the conversation and accepted it’s probably spelled the end of the relationship.
Very unfair to say OP has chosen him over kids when that’s not the case.

Hope you are okay, OP, and deciding on a course that is best for you.

'probably' spelled the end of the the relationship. At 37 with this kind of guy, there's little time for 'probably'. Admittedly I did miss that update though but read most others.

@Loveadvicepls how did the conversation go? Hoping all is ok

I’m guessing more gaslighting and fake promises.....

@Fabiofatshaft1

I’m guessing more gaslighting and fake promises.....

Exactly. I bet the OP has decided to stay with him too. Very telling she was busy deflecting and blaming posters on here giving good advice rather than blaming her own manipulative boyfriend i.e. the person who's actually put her in this position the first place.. Theres only so much you can help someone.

Some.people don't want to learn from the experience of others and instead need to make their own mistakes and miss out on kids/marriage as a result of their choices unfortunately.

@NameChangedForThisFeb21

It sounds as if you have not experienced being put on a pedestal by a man and treated like a princess and being given kind and thoughtful treatment by a man every single day?!

Why don't you aim at finding the kindest, nicest man who worships the ground you walk on in order to start a family with?

Overall yours is a lovely post so don’t think I’m taking issue with your advice BUT

I’m a similar age to OP and have NEVER met a man who “treats me like a princess and puts me on a pedestal” or “worships the ground I walk in” and actually, amongst my peers even the happiest married with kids ones that I know do not have the whole princess/worshipping/pedestal dynamic. I think it’s very very rare these days for men who have got to mid 30s or their 40s without ever being committed to a woman or starting a family to be the sort to be used to putting anyone except themselves first. And I’m not sure most women in their mid/late 30s would want or expect to be “worshipped” or to be someone’s “princess”. Most of us have been just looking for a decent guy who would treat us as an equal and be respectful.

My family members who are now in their later 50s or older and settled down in their twenties or by 30 maximum have had a different dynamic in their past and yes maybe the princess/ground worshipping scenario but for our generation

We’ve had to deal with a very different dating world were a lot of men won’t even ask a woman they meet in person out,

Where internet dating and apps are the main way people meet and are basically like a fast food menu - he wants a blonde 25 year old this week, with a 35 year old single mum on the side and he might sample an 18 year old or even try a 60 year old just so he can say he can. All with no commitment.

By date 3 if you don’t sleep with these people (I never did), preferring to get to know them better, you are dumped as you are clearly “frigid”. On these dates, when you do feel ready for sex, that sex is often now heavily influenced by porn so you aren’t to be surprised if choking/anal/bdsm etc is part of even an early date and labelled “vanilla”
if you don’t want to and just fancy a bit of...y’know loving, affectionate, fun sex.

Instead of “Hello, I’ve noticed you around here and think you are very beautiful. Here’s my number, I’d love to take you out sometime so give me a ring if you are interested” which is the dating story of a lot of my relatives...we get dick pics. Or a message saying “pics plz” meaning “send me (a stranger) naked pictures of you”.

Occasionally you will meet what seems to be a decent guy and for the first time in 50 shit first dates with weirdos, you get excited and think this one could lead somewhere.
Only to find out he’s married. Or to have him “ghost” you with absolutely no explanation as to why.

A lot of friends thought about using niche dating sites like a Christian one where they could meet men who they thought would be more decent. Instead one had to take a court case out against a creepy stalker and the majority of men they met were recovering (but not recovered) addicts or men with really severe mental health problems. And they still got the dick pics and sexually explicit messages.

And I chose to use the “hobbies” route over internet dating but still came across married creeps, commitment phobes, porn addicts, cheaters etc. I still think hobbies, work, volunteering and asking friends if they have any really decent single relatives or friends looking to settle down is the best route but,
in a pandemic, even this is more challenging and most people are still using the apps and online option.

Most of the decent guys who knew they wanted marriage and kids seemed to settle down between 27-30.
My ex decided to reverse his previous discussions with me and announce he never wanted children when I was about to turn 31. If he’d been honest 2 years earlier instead of stringing me along and making out that he wanted the same things as me, I might have had a different outcome and not be childless today.

If OP waits for someone to treat her like a princess, worship the ground she walks on, and put her on a pedestal, she’s just as likely to be single and childless in 5 years as she would in her current set up.

I absolutely agree she needs to look for someone kind and who will be a good father. But hoping for some sort of fantasy prince is not at all realistic or healthy.

This is so true. I want to applaud and weep at the same time. Dating in my twenties bears no resemblance to dating in my thirties. Different planet. Rules of behaviour completely changed.

@NameChangedForThisFeb21
@CliffsofMohair
The above posts are mostly true but women need to move away from this helpless victim narrative. The reason why many men are now treating women this way is because WE are accepting this treatment and is the result of OUR choices.

Women have ALL the power. Men can't have sex with women or continued relationships or kids without us actively choosing these men and participating in all this.

I've briefly encountered the types of men you describe or had to endure hearing long dramas of some acquaintances/friends who choose to entangle themselves with such men and refuse to promptly end things. However the damage such men have done to me personally is very minimal because I avoid in the first place (many of these men have wanting signs if you look closely) or dump quickly and don't engage further. I also don't follow all this sex by date 3 rubbish. Who the heck made that stupid "rule" and why the heck should I follow it like to sheep when it's my body. I would never want a guy in the first place who expects such things or is into porn etc.

As a result of my standards, I accepted (and very happy with) being single more than most women are but I've met some wonderful men worthy of me in between and I've never had the shocking experiences a lot of women talk about. I refuse to let bad men have that level of power over my life as a woman.

As a woman, regardless of what everyone else is doing, you set the standard for what you accept. If you're the type who's desperate for a relationship and will accept an unworthy man, then you will reap what you sow unfortunately.

@LivBa - spectacular post.

Can we send you around schools to tell boys and girls what to expect and demand in a RS and how to behave.

You are 100% correct that if all of these dreadful people were not allowed to indulge their grossness and kicked to the kerb quickly by each new partner they might behave respectfully. However well aware of the classic abuser who fakes the niceness until the partner is emotionally, physically and financially invested and entangled before dropping the mask. That’s tougher to get out of but still necessary.

The other thing I never did was live with a man before marriage. I've seen so many lovely women be strung along or taken for granted this way. At the end of the day if a guy is basically already getting everything he would from a wife, he has all the incentive in the world to string you along even when he's unsure about you or definitely knows he doesn't want you, because he's getting all these benefits on tap, especially sex. Men are much more open about their true intentions and decisive, when they see they can't use you in this way for their benefit as they would be wasting their own time too.

You deserve a man who adores you, is straightforward and it straight up committed to you and loves you

Yes. But then he deserves the same too. And OP has not said once that she loves him or even likes him, she has said she doesn't want to start dating again and she's worried about time running out to have a family, but she gives no indication that he actually matters much to her as a person.

Men want sex, women want relationships. I think we’re going to have to stop giving men sex until we’re getting proper relationships. Otherwise dating is just like a non-stop sexual buffet for men and there’s no way they’re ever going to want to settle down.

I’ve never lived with a man and I’m not married.

I’ve never accepted the low standards I mentioned above. I don’t respect those men, why would I want to date them.

I’ve spent long periods single rather than put up with the rotten treatment (8 years and 6 years).

So I don’t accept that I’m part of the problem for allowing men to treat me that way. Because I haven’t. Other women may have somehow given them the impression that it’s ok, but with me it was block, delete, tell them no early on when on the receiving end of poor behaviour.

In a different era I’ve no doubt I would have been married with a couple of kids by 25. It’s possible to have standards and still not get the decent man you know?

And the sex toys now are so good that it won’t stop us having orgasms. For women, most of the joy of sex comes from the intimacy and the connection. It’s not the bouncing around stuff, it’s the connection stuff. You don’t get that from casual sex (or if you do, it’s usually fake, or then they ghost you afterwards) so don’t bother.

Tool up with toys, don’t shag men until they’re actually, genuinely, properly in love with you and working towards a commitment.

Men want sex, women want relationships. I think we’re going to have to stop giving men sex until we’re getting proper relationships

Sexist bullshit. Like this and many other threads here.

Sexist bullshit. Like this and many other threads here.

You’re forgetting that nature didn’t give women contraception. We’re not designed to want to shag any Tom or Harry with a dick. We’re naturally selective, biologically.

How is that “sexist”? I’d say modern dating is far more sexist. Men get free sex, women get messed around.

@ThatOtherPoster

Men want sex, women want relationships. I think we’re going to have to stop giving men sex until we’re getting proper relationships. Otherwise dating is just like a non-stop sexual buffet for men and there’s no way they’re ever going to want to settle down.

Yep. Not done that either. Still doesn’t guarantee you marriage and kids. There are always going to be some people who are decent, who have good standards, who know how to “do” a healthy, loving relationship, who see sex as something part of a wider commitment rather than “bouncing around” as you put it who end up single and miss the boat for biological kids. It’s just life.

I’m at the point where I still want marriage eventually, even if I have to wait until 50 for it with the right respectful, emotionally available, capable of loving and being loved person as, whilst I’m fine single and very independent with a full life (at least pre all this past year), I also know that I’m great in a relationship and have a lot to bring to the table and enjoy an intimate loving connection with one other human. But that will mean no biological kids if I have to wait much longer. I’m like OP in that the sperm donation/single parent by choice route doesn’t sit right with me morally but I’d be prepared to adopt in my case but only if in a marriage.

My main problem was with the suggestion of waiting for some sort of fairytale prince who puts you on a pedestal and worships you as a princess. That’s not going to guarantee you a healthy long term commitment. And it’s possible that by having unrealistic fantasy like standards you miss out on a healthy, mature, genuine relationship with a man who loves you and treats you with respect and equality.

You’re forgetting that nature didn’t give women contraception. We’re not designed to want to shag any Tom or Harry with a dick. We’re naturally selective, biologically

I'm not forgetting anything. Science gave us contraception, and we aren't designed at all. But that wasn't the point.

Men want sex not relationships is sexist bullshit. Men want relationships too. Fgs, the idea of men being only in it for sex went out with the ark. Grow up.

Years ago I was on a forum for women who’d read The Rules book. We’d all been brought there after suffering with some bloke or other who’d messed us around. Following TR is a nightmare, so a forum was created where everyone supported each other.

It was a huge forum, with women from all over the world. It was brilliant - wise, funny, helpful, hilarious. It had every situation you can imagine on it.

We all thought that TR were too strict, game-playing, difficult, cruel, strange. At the start. Then when we started doing it, or watching other women do it, we noticed the dramatic change in how men treated us. The crap flaky guys fell away. The good, kind guys stepped up. They just did. They planned dates, made time, messaged, sent flowers, initiated Future Talk, fixed things, kept promises, and proposed. They had to create a success stories thread because so many proposals happened. I’m in touch with loads of women from that time and they’re still married.

This was the 90s-noughties. Here in the UK it was the time of the Ladette. We were being told to be feisty and drink loads and shag loads and everything.

I know The Rules are wildly unpopular on MN, but they just work. The book weeds out flaky guys so so fast, and replaces them with genuinely nice blokes.

My brother is a genuinely nice bloke. He’s 50 and single. Well, he has a GF, but he’s not married. I’ve watched his dating life (we’re really close) and he hasn’t committed because none of his GFs have ever let him step up and be The Man. Nobody has brought out the best in him. He’s been allowed to be passive.

I did TR in the 90s and net my first husband, and again in 2010 and met my second. (My first husband wasn’t great. The women on the forum told me he wasn’t great but I was infatuated and didn’t listen.) The Rules work.

I’d suggest everyone just reads all TR books snd follows them. You’ll hate it - you’ll throw the books across the room several times - but just do it. You’ll be married in a year.

It tells you everything - how to spot men who really like you longterm rather than just for now; how to appear as the Dream Girl rather than the Nice Girl; how to weed out the idiots, everything.

The difference in how men treat you when you’re doing TR and when you’re not (as I’ve obviously dated both ways) is NIGHT AND DAY.

If you’re someone who finds men are lovely to you in the first month then start getting crap after that, TR will fix it.

@LivBa

The other thing I never did was live with a man before marriage. I've seen so many lovely women be strung along or taken for granted this way. At the end of the day if a guy is basically already getting everything he would from a wife, he has all the incentive in the world to string you along even when he's unsure about you or definitely knows he doesn't want you, because he's getting all these benefits on tap, especially sex. Men are much more open about their true intentions and decisive, when they see they can't use you in this way for their benefit as they would be wasting their own time too.

The other thing to add here...as I realise that there are men who do decide marry after stringing along/cohabiting with their girlfriend. I've always hated this dynamic too. It's like the women have to audition to be the wife of the man (despite already being acting like a pseudo wife!). I can't stand this power dynamic and I've always refused it. No idea why so many women since the 1960s/70s in the West have accepted this obligingly. If anything the power dynamic should be women auditioning men, considering all the sacrifices and benefits men get from us living with them long term.

This cohabiting power dynamic is also why I think a lot of modern marriages fail. In the unmarried cohabiting set up, men have all the power. They are used to being the centre of a woman's world, and getting all the benefits of a marriage, without commitment and any of the true responsibility or sacrifice on their part. In most cases, it's the woman choosing to give everything yet hoping and waiting for the guy to commit.

If/when they actually marry, and then (often) kids come along, these men struggle to adjust to no longer being first place and the woman then diverting her centre to the kids/family life. It's why I think it's so unhealthy for a woman to give her all in an unmarried set up when a man hasn't committed to her first and shown himself beforehand to be fully capable of sacrifice and being unselfish, and therefore a worthy husband. It's wrong the woman allowed him to be used to having everything on his terms in the first place.

Assuming he's a good man and worthy of her, a man should know a woman loves and cares for him BUT he shouldn't be expecting commitment from a woman when he's chosen not to commit to her yet. This makes it very clear to him that only the commitment of marriage on his part enables him to experience all the benefits of marriage. I feel/felt so much happier and at peace, and satisfied with the men I've encountered, when I've upheld this standard.

Men want sex not relationships is sexist bullshit. Men want relationships too.

Yes but as you’ll know with all your scientific research, men’s higher testosterone levels can have a dampening effect on their oxytocin, leaving women up to 8 times more bonded after sex than men. And of course the famous study where men and women were both asked if they’d like to have sex with a researcher, where 0% of women said yes, compared to 90% of men. Or the studies showing that women’s standards for sexual partners were exactly the same as for long-term partners, whereas men’s were very different.

But yeah.