Does love come back/what do I do

[helplesshopeless]

Nc for this.

Advice needed please, I've created a huge mess and can't see a way out/what is for the best. This may be long.

I am married with a 3yo. DH has always had a nasty temper, I've suggested anger management counselling numerous times but to no avail. The last few years since having my child have been really difficult. He's generally spoken to me with contempt and disdain a lot of the time, with occasional temper flashes, arguments are always toxic, things could get very nasty (never physical). On a day to day basis we would be civil enough to eachother, but nasty looks and snappiness from him were definitely daily as well, with bigger flare ups fairly regularly. We have had happy family times too and we both dote on our child.

All of this treatment from my DH culminated in my withdrawing from him and ultimately having an affair the last few months, with someone who made me feel loved and cared for. It was mainly an emotional affair but there was a small amount of physical contact (we did not have sex). This is someone that I work with, so although we're wfh at the moment, he is in team zoom meetings etc.

My DH found everything out last week. He is angry but also devastated. I have never seen him so upset and it has shocked me that he cares that much about me. He has completely woken up to how he's been treating me and is committed to having anger management therapy and working on things with me. I obviously am ashamed of what I have done and there is no excuse for my behaviour, but he does recognise that his treatment of me took me to a place where I was open to someone else. I still can't believe I had an affair because it is so against my morals and I fully deserve to be judged for it.

We are working on things and will get relationship counselling. There's a lot of self esteem issues that my husband struggles with, especially since we had our child as he's felt like he's been stuck on the outside looking in, and he thinks this is why he's been treating me how he has. I do understand this and it makes sense, but it doesn't change how he's treated me in the past and how damaging I have found it.

My husband wants me to leave my work so there's no interaction with the other man. I totally understand his point but am reluctant to do this as I'd then feel trapped.

I want to get back to a happy place with my husband. I don't want to feel trapped with him. I don't know if I can find my way back to loving him, whether all of this is coming too late after years of awful treatment. I accept I have behaved in a disgusting way and deserve all of this fall out, and am so worried about the impact on our child and how I'd manage if we separate. I am also concerned about the impact on my husband if things don't work as he has been explaining how it will crush him and he'd never be able to trust anyone again if we don't manage to work through this.

I just don't know if my heart is in this anymore, I want to be able to be happy with him and love him and our family deserves for me to work on this and fully commit to getting back on track, but I have no idea if I'll ever get back to where I need to be.

I am ashamed to admit I still have feelings for the other guy. I could obviously never be with him anyway so that is irrelevant, but it's clouding my judgement. I need to hear from people who have learnt to love their husbands again. Is that a thing? Will we ever get there?

I still can't believe any of this is happening.

Sorry, lost the bold in the first part of the response from ravenmum

My bf actually has his daughter 50:50 (having previously been the main carer). Both parents have lots of "quality time" with her and a few evenings for themselves. They broke up in the same circumstances as you when their dd was 4. Now it's 7 years later and this is the only arrangement their dd can remember; it's normal to her.

This is really reassuring. I just really worry about the transition period for the first year or so if our child suddenly has to manage without me for 50% of the time, when previously I have been her main (sole for a lot of the time until recently) carer.

Gah, I said 'her' - may as well give it up and say daughter now, it's not like this isn't identifying enough as it is

In what way are his arguments logical? From an outsider's perspective, the idea that you would fall back in love with this bully sounds like total nonsense.

He has really pulled every trick out of the hat to try & bully you into staying. he can't stand that he is not in charge. even throwing in;
You must decide before its too late,
I'm going to divorce you
& threatening you with 50:50 with DC, he knows this is what will upset you most.
he hasn't really changed at all, he is still the person he has always been.
When someone shows you who they are, believe them.

I suggest you say that actually if he doesn't want to have a trial separation, then divorce is indeed the only answer, as being bullied every day is not working in his favour. Can you go & visit family ?

Do not give up your job. you are going to need it.

Yes, agree with mix, you need space and probably sleep. Can you go and stay with someone else?
I've been where you are, it's not an easy path to leave but it's better than living half a life, emotionally numb in a relationship that's all about someone else.
Listen to your inner feelings, if you are feeling bombarded by his logic, that's what's happening and it isn't a conversation. It's him trying to shut you down.
Good luck

for now, forget about trying to resolve the bigger picture - there are too many knots and he is very deliberately not giving you space to think.

If he will not discuss separation - even for a relatively short defined time - then as PP's have suggested get yourself away from him by staying with friends for a week or longer, or even staying in a holiday cottage/caravan if you can find/afford one.

What you need is space to just "be" without his incessant wittering and pressure; when you have that space and can just breathe out and decompress a bit, YOUR path forward will start to reveal itself. It might be a series of small steps or it might be one big jump, but you have no chance of hearing your own inner voice when someone else is shouting loudly and incessantly over the top of it.

things here are ok but no more than that, after more aggravation yesterday I am considering my options for the last time, and as soon as I can summon the strength I will be giving (D)H an ultimatum to get help or get out. Not where I wanted to be at all, but DS and I are not going to live like this, it's not right.

Yes we definitely have very opposite needs at the moment!!! It is just really unfortunate that I had my affair as that makes this even more difficult to navigate, he is obviously very very hurt and does need love and connection from me to try and heal, but I need space to work on the wider issues. Really struggling to navigate the disparities here.

I think you've hit the nail on the head here, but haven't necessarily realised fully that the reason you have opposite needs at the moment is you want opposite things. He wants things to go back to "normal" (i.e. you all live together as a pretend happy family, he gets to be himself, no more affairs). You want things to change - whether that's in terms of ending the relationship and coparenting well, or just in terms of him overhauling his behaviour and an end to you having to live a faking-it half life.

Saying he "needs love and connection from me to try and heal" is only an argument that makes sense if you want the relationship to heal and go back to normal. Which you don't. He WANTS love and connection and sex, sure why wouldn't he? And in addition to that he wants to keep you busy enough thinking about him him him - his wants, his feelings, his hurts, his regrets, his plans, his sex drive - soooo busy that you don't have any more chance to think your own thoughts and make your own plans. It's working too, isn't it?

The words 'contempt' and 'disdain' jumped out at me from your first post OP, as I recall seeing an interview with psychologists about what they had observed from 100s of couples as what really ended a relationship - and the answer exactly was 'contempt and disdain'

I fear your other half is accepting counselling etc not because he cares about you but because he feels angry that someone else possessed you on some level and now he's making a show of 'wanting to make you happy' so he can 'win' - and then behave how he has before, with an added serving of being able to bring up your 'betrayal' to make you the bad guy when he wants. The wanting you to stop work so you don't come across other people is a big red flag - if he really had respect for you he might accept his responsibility for how he treated you and that you can interact with other male humans without having any kind of affair with them. Not declare that you shouldn't come into regular contact with any other men.

Saying he "needs love and connection from me to try and heal" is only an argument that makes sense if you want the relationship to heal and go back to normal. Which you don't. He WANTS love and connection and sex, sure why wouldn't he? And in addition to that he wants to keep you busy enough thinking about him him him - his wants, his feelings, his hurts, his regrets, his plans, his sex drive - soooo busy that you don't have any more chance to think your own thoughts and make your own plans. It's working too, isn't it?

Yes. He wants things back to how they were, you putting him first in everything always. Is that what you need though?

He even said he feels like he needs to keep telling me this to stop me slipping away.
He needs to tell you what to do, because you do the wrong things?
He needs to tell you what to think, because you think the wrong things?
And these things are wrong because they are not what he wants you to do and think?

@ravenmum

He even said he feels like he needs to keep telling me this to stop me slipping away. He needs to tell you what to do, because you do the wrong things? He needs to tell you what to think, because you think the wrong things? And these things are wrong because they are not what he wants you to do and think?

Exactly. He's creating a lot of work for himself by essentially standing between you and the door and creating a wall of sound. Even while saying he respects you and is sorry he is browbeating you into doing what he wants.

What makes me really sad about this is that what he wants isn't the real you, OP. He wants a puppet wife who will just do what he wants, stay where she's put and not answer back or get her own ideas.

Earlier you said that a trial separation isn't going to be happening. Is that because he has said no or because you're afraid to even mention it? Neither one is good.

At the least take a few days to yourself to think. If he won't even let you do that then he's essentially keeping you prisoner, because he knows that given any mental space you will see through him and leave.

He isn't in sole control here. You do have autonomy. If

Oops hit post.

If he refuses to let you go away then what else do you need to know?

V good points.

Air bnb and self catering holiday places are open now. Take a couple of days off work and just go. Say it’s a wee holiday.

Wow, so many responses!! Thank you all, really appreciate the time you're taking to think about my situation and offer your thoughts.

In what way are his arguments logical? From an outsider's perspective, the idea that you would fall back in love with this bully sounds like total nonsense

He is absolutely dedicated to making changes in his behaviour and has already started therapy for that. From his perspective, he doesn't understand why, if he can remove the negative aspects that I don't like, I can't fall back in love with the 'good' parts of him that are still there. In particular he keeps asking if he is so awful that I would rather be a single mum, probably struggling financially, when we could have a fresh start and build a happy relationship together where I'm financially secure and we're a family. I don't really have an answer to that!

In terms of those suggesting separation, he has said he won't leave our home even temporarily to give me space, even though he has family nearby he could stay with. So I'd have to leave, which is difficult because my family are not as close, and I don't want to leave my daughter behind.

And in addition to that he wants to keep you busy enough thinking about him him him - his wants, his feelings, his hurts, his regrets, his plans, his sex drive - soooo busy that you don't have any more chance to think your own thoughts and make your own plans. It's working too, isn't it?

It is!! Again, I don't think it's a conscious plan on his part, more pure desperation, but yes I feel so much pressure to just agree to get back to normal (obviously on the condition that he does change). He's written a list of rules/commitments that I was to agree to to help us work towards reconciling. Some of them are fine and fair enough, but others include being affectionate and loving to eachother, not sharing too many details with my friends on what's happening, committing to leaving my job (where the OM also works) which I'm just not happy with. But I don't feel that I can argue with them as they're reasonable enough given what's happened. He did include in the rules that he'd accept I need space, but that's not been forthcoming yet 

What makes me really sad about this is that what he wants isn't the real you, OP. He wants a puppet wife who will just do what he wants, stay where she's put and not answer back or get her own ideas.

This does make me sad because I feel like the OM (who I know I need to forget about) really saw me and got me, in a way my husband probably never has.

What you need is space to just "be" without his incessant wittering and pressure; when you have that space and can just breathe out and decompress a bit, YOUR path forward will start to reveal itself. It might be a series of small steps or it might be one big jump, but you have no chance of hearing your own inner voice when someone else is shouting loudly and incessantly over the top of it.

This is such an accurate description of how it feels  I do desperately crave that space as I just feel like I'm bouncing around chamber devoid of my own feelings but full of his thoughts.

What I'm also struggling with is that he is devastated with how his past behaviour has affected me, he says he had no idea I was so unhappy. From his perspective he'd always behaved like this (albeit he's got worse in last few years), and while I'd be upset in the moment, he thought everything was fine overall. So he thinks he's not been given a chance to make everything right as he feels like I've already written him off. Giving him the benefit of the doubt here as I don't think he's trying to manipulate me, I don't really have an answer for it. I didn't ever sit down and initiate a calm discussion about his behaviour, I was always in a bit of a fight or flight response in the moment and then trying to keep everything pleasant outside of that. So he's right that I didn't give him a proper chance to make things better.

@Peach1886 really sorry things have come to a head again for you. Will be thinking of you

Oh dear, lost ALL of the bold this time

Trying again so it's easier to read... Wow, so many responses!! Thank you all, really appreciate the time you're taking to think about my situation and offer your thoughts.

In what way are his arguments logical? From an outsider's perspective, the idea that you would fall back in love with this bully sounds like total nonsense

He is absolutely dedicated to making changes in his behaviour and has already started therapy for that. From his perspective, he doesn't understand why, if he can remove the negative aspects that I don't like, I can't fall back in love with the 'good' parts of him that are still there. In particular he keeps asking if he is so awful that I would rather be a single mum, probably struggling financially, when we could have a fresh start and build a happy relationship together where I'm financially secure and we're a family. I don't really have an answer to that!

In terms of those suggesting separation, he has said he won't leave our home even temporarily to give me space, even though he has family nearby he could stay with. So I'd have to leave, which is difficult because my family are not as close, and I don't want to leave my daughter behind.

And in addition to that he wants to keep you busy enough thinking about him him him - his wants, his feelings, his hurts, his regrets, his plans, his sex drive - soooo busy that you don't have any more chance to think your own thoughts and make your own plans. It's working too, isn't it?

It is!! Again, I don't think it's a conscious plan on his part, more pure desperation, but yes I feel so much pressure to just agree to get back to normal (obviously on the condition that he does change). He's written a list of rules/commitments that I was to agree to to help us work towards reconciling. Some of them are fine and fair enough, but others include being affectionate and loving to eachother, not sharing too many details with my friends on what's happening, committing to leaving my job (where the OM also works) which I'm just not happy with. But I don't feel that I can argue with them as they're reasonable enough given what's happened. He did include in the rules that he'd accept I need space, but that's not been forthcoming yet

What makes me really sad about this is that what he wants isn't the real you, OP. He wants a puppet wife who will just do what he wants, stay where she's put and not answer back or get her own ideas.

This does make me sad because I feel like the OM (who I know I need to forget about) really saw me and got me, in a way my husband probably never has.

What you need is space to just "be" without his incessant wittering and pressure; when you have that space and can just breathe out and decompress a bit, YOUR path forward will start to reveal itself. It might be a series of small steps or it might be one big jump, but you have no chance of hearing your own inner voice when someone else is shouting loudly and incessantly over the top of it.

This is such an accurate description of how it feels I do desperately crave that space as I just feel like I'm bouncing around chamber devoid of my own feelings but full of his thoughts.

What I'm also struggling with is that he is devastated with how his past behaviour has affected me, he says he had no idea I was so unhappy. From his perspective he'd always behaved like this (albeit he's got worse in last few years), and while I'd be upset in the moment, he thought everything was fine overall. So he thinks he's not been given a chance to make everything right as he feels like I've already written him off. Giving him the benefit of the doubt here as I don't think he's trying to manipulate me, I don't really have an answer for it. I didn't ever sit down and initiate a calm discussion about his behaviour, I was always in a bit of a fight or flight response in the moment and then trying to keep everything pleasant outside of that. So he's right that I didn't give him a proper chance to make things better.

@Peach1886 really sorry things have come to a head again for you. Will be thinking of you

In particular he keeps asking if he is so awful that I would rather be a single mum, probably struggling financially, when we could have a fresh start and build a happy relationship together where I'm financially secure and we're a family. I don't really have an answer to that!

Nice. Basically saying "don't I pay you enough to live with me?"

In response to his refusal to leave/countenance a break/shut the fuck up, perhaps it's worth explaining to him that you need some space in order to think clearly about how to move forward with improving your relationship. I actually think this is true, if you do end up staying with him having some time to think about how you want things to change and how much (or whether) you value the setup you have, would be really valuable. Also of course it may have the opposite effect and make you see you don't want to go back. But if I were in your position I would be emphasising the first part, essentially he's stamping on your desire and ability to move on with the relationship by saying no to space.

He sounds very much like my exH.
He is absolutely dedicated to making changes in his behaviour and has already started therapy for that Mine did this and within 3 sessions it became about how much what I'd done hurt him and how his therapist thought he should "set boundaries" with me
I'd been reading "why does he do that" and the author talks about that specific behaviour- if you haven't started reading it yet I strongly suggest you do.
It doesn't really matter whether or not his manipulation is intentional, the fact is he cannot see beyond his own wants and needs. And you deserve a fulfilling relationship too which you won't get in these circumstances.

PS I wasn't doing anything wrong, just refusing to make a decision about our marriage on his timescales. He couldn't stand it and put me under so much pressure.

Really good approach @TheThermalStair, OP tell him you need time to yourself to work out how the two of you can make things better - what you need to do and what you need him to do. Suggest he does the same.

And then use that thinking time to think whatever you want. Frankly when you can't hear all his controlling blether I think you'll know exactly what to do

Oh op. Of COURSE he's pulling out the stops. My ex did the same. Made all the right noises, showed 'remorse' told me he wanted to make things right.

I also limped on feeling just like you do now, hoping that things would magically repair.

They didn't. My ex then fleeced me for £10k and basically left me for dead once he knew how much I was still doubting that it could work.

he is devastated with how his past behaviour has affected me, he says he had no idea I was so unhappy.

Bullshit does he actually believe that.

I bet he didn't behave like that to anyone else, did he?

He is absolutely dedicated to making changes in his behaviour and has already started therapy for that but is still bullying you now, when he is supposedly really desperate to win you back.

he has said he won't leave our home even temporarily to give me space, even though he has family nearby he could stay with He won't even do this for you, for instance. He and his bullying come first.

he doesn't understand why, if he can remove the negative aspects that I don't like, I can't fall back in love with the 'good' parts of him that are still there. Because you can't wipe the slate clean. You have a memory. He does, too, and he won't forget.

he keeps asking if he is so awful that I would rather be a single mum, probably struggling financially Perhaps you'd rather be a single mum, and him a single dad, both contributing fairly to your child's upbringing so that neither is struggling. Then after that maybe you'd like to be living with your dd and her lovely, cheery stepdad (like mine, he is great).
His "logic" is based on false premises. May I recommend the book "Fantastic Fallacies and Where to Find Them"?

he's right that I didn't give him a proper chance to make things better Bollocks. He's a grown man and knew his behaviour was crap. He didn't need you to tell him.

OP, you aren't going to give up your job without a new one, are you?
Don't do it. It would make you even more vulnerable, he'd have even more leverage to stop you leaving. And if when he did then dump you, you'd feel such a fool.