Does love come back/what do I do

[helplesshopeless]

Nc for this.

Advice needed please, I've created a huge mess and can't see a way out/what is for the best. This may be long.

I am married with a 3yo. DH has always had a nasty temper, I've suggested anger management counselling numerous times but to no avail. The last few years since having my child have been really difficult. He's generally spoken to me with contempt and disdain a lot of the time, with occasional temper flashes, arguments are always toxic, things could get very nasty (never physical). On a day to day basis we would be civil enough to eachother, but nasty looks and snappiness from him were definitely daily as well, with bigger flare ups fairly regularly. We have had happy family times too and we both dote on our child.

All of this treatment from my DH culminated in my withdrawing from him and ultimately having an affair the last few months, with someone who made me feel loved and cared for. It was mainly an emotional affair but there was a small amount of physical contact (we did not have sex). This is someone that I work with, so although we're wfh at the moment, he is in team zoom meetings etc.

My DH found everything out last week. He is angry but also devastated. I have never seen him so upset and it has shocked me that he cares that much about me. He has completely woken up to how he's been treating me and is committed to having anger management therapy and working on things with me. I obviously am ashamed of what I have done and there is no excuse for my behaviour, but he does recognise that his treatment of me took me to a place where I was open to someone else. I still can't believe I had an affair because it is so against my morals and I fully deserve to be judged for it.

We are working on things and will get relationship counselling. There's a lot of self esteem issues that my husband struggles with, especially since we had our child as he's felt like he's been stuck on the outside looking in, and he thinks this is why he's been treating me how he has. I do understand this and it makes sense, but it doesn't change how he's treated me in the past and how damaging I have found it.

My husband wants me to leave my work so there's no interaction with the other man. I totally understand his point but am reluctant to do this as I'd then feel trapped.

I want to get back to a happy place with my husband. I don't want to feel trapped with him. I don't know if I can find my way back to loving him, whether all of this is coming too late after years of awful treatment. I accept I have behaved in a disgusting way and deserve all of this fall out, and am so worried about the impact on our child and how I'd manage if we separate. I am also concerned about the impact on my husband if things don't work as he has been explaining how it will crush him and he'd never be able to trust anyone again if we don't manage to work through this.

I just don't know if my heart is in this anymore, I want to be able to be happy with him and love him and our family deserves for me to work on this and fully commit to getting back on track, but I have no idea if I'll ever get back to where I need to be.

I am ashamed to admit I still have feelings for the other guy. I could obviously never be with him anyway so that is irrelevant, but it's clouding my judgement. I need to hear from people who have learnt to love their husbands again. Is that a thing? Will we ever get there?

I still can't believe any of this is happening.

i think a trial separation would be a good thing for a few reasons:

1. gives you space to work out what you really want, without him there looking all hopeful
2. stops you having to have sex with someone you don't currently feel anything about (this is pretty horrific, to be honest - you really seem to be underplaying this)
3. lets you see that you could cope without him
4. lets him see that you could cope without him
5. gives you the opportunity to see how committed he is to change, in a situation where you have some control

thermalstair (sorry, it won't let me quote your message) would bloody love a hug! do you mean a re-set by separation might help us find our way back?

almostsamestory as in your AP blasted you and spread those rumours?! How awful! I will sound naive in saying this but the other man in my scenario would never do anything to hurt or upset me, he's always put me first in everything.

accentor brutal comment but perhaps needed

discontinued really good points. Maybe also 6) lets him see that he can cope without me?!

OP, I am another one who thinks a separation would be the best thing for now. You are not going to be able to think straight as he seems to be all over you right now. He is doing the pick me dance and is quite probably laying a fair bit of guilt on you.

I saw it with my ex who had an affair. He mentally moved into a different frame of mind then, and there was NO going back to our normal life after that. Life was just different from then on. And I was the one trying to save the marriage and move on from it. It was ok for a little while but we are divorced now.

Maybe also 6) lets him see that he can cope without me?!

Interesting that this came into your mind OP.... why is this important to you?

He is doing the pick me dance and is quite probably laying a fair bit of guilt on you.

That hadn't occurred to me re the pick me dance but you're absolutely right. It's making me really sad and guilty that I'm not able to reciprocate his efforts.

Interesting that this came into your mind OP.... why is this important to you?

I definitely feel responsible for his future happiness. He's made it clear he wants to be with me and be a family together forever and I feel like I'll be ripping everything away from him if I don't stay.

Don't give up the job, OP - or at least, don't give it up unless you have another equally good job to go to.

Your husbands reaction at the moment is coming from a place of 'fuck, someone else wants her!!' That's the shock factor and while I can accept that he acknowledges his behaviour, I do not believe he can sustain a long term change for the better

I agree with this. Sadly, I think you ought to leave him, OP.

(And by the way, most of MN will disagree with me about this, but I don't think you had a full-blown affair. I think you behaved very badly and sailed close to the wind, but it wasn't an actual affair, so please stop beating yourself up quite so much about it.)

I'm concerned that you've said you need to space to consider things and he is pushing you for lots of sex to 'bond' with you.

Can you not see that this is controlling? You've asked him for space!

You've said it felt good to get away. He claims he's realised you need time, space and he needs to 'chill'.

Then he puts pressure on you for far more sex than you would usually have with him! That's so wrong.

If he's always had a nasty temper, then I don't think there's much you can do about this situation with him. It seems to be an ingrained part of who he is, whether or not he wants to accept that or not.

One of the key things I would advise younger women in particular when it comes to choosing a life partner (amongst many other things), is - how's his temperament? It's true that some men mellow as they age but with many it's the total opposite.....so could you cope with that?? A man with an angry or volatile disposition who can't cope with stresses & strains is going to be difficult to raise a child with. Small things will cause him to lose it. Easy days out will become stressful because small things will upset him. You will be placating an angry toddler as well as an angry man.

He has actually said himself that he intentionally says hurtful things to me when he is angry, and he knows it's wrong to do that, and he doesn't mean them

It's one thing to have a row with someone, but do you really want to stay with someone who purposefully says things to hurt you? Who probably enjoys seeing you upset??

He's already made steps towards getting therapy for his self esteem and anger issues

Steps you say.......but he's not actually IN therapy at the moment, is he?

Is he like this towards his boss? Towards big men when he gets frustrated at them? If not, he doesn't have a general, impulsive anger problem (not that it would make everything ok). If the answer is 'no' it means that he has a degree of control over his behavior and is being an asshole to you because he thinks he can get away with it. Please be very careful into buying this idea of 'but he can't help it'!! That's true for some men (maybe), but it in a lot of cases, they absolutely have full control of what they're doing, but they choose to take their temper or stress out on their wives who grow smaller and smaller as the years go by.

There's a lot of self esteem issues that my husband struggles with, especially since we had our child as he's felt like he's been stuck on the outside looking in, and he thinks this is why he's been treating me how he has. I do understand this and it makes sense, but it doesn't change how he's treated me in the past and how damaging I have found it

No it doesn't. He's been treating you like that because he's an asshole. When a baby comes along, of course it can make men feel sad and it's difficult for some to get used to the new dynamic, to get used to the fact that so much of their wife's attention is directed elsewhere....but self esteem issues?? Wtf?? Are you sure they're self esteem issues and it's not just him feeling massively sorry for himself that he's not the centre of the universe anymore?

I'm sorry for the loss you now have to go through psychologically, but I think it's unlikely you'll be able to love him again. You have now seen a darker side to him, and ugly side. Once you've seen that in your partner, it's difficult to come back from, often with good reason. It actually means you know what's healthy in a relationship and you know deep down what you respect in a man and this isn't it.

I've NC for this as, frankly, I'm ashamed to even write this. Please, please don't let him talk you out of the job OP. He has no right to do that regardless of what did or didn't happen between your work colleague.

I've been in a similar situation (without the affair) only I was him in that situation. I was the awful person. I had unresolved trauma, anger issues, lashed out so much. They sound like excuses written down. I was so messed up in my head, I was so scared that he was going to leave anyway that I majorly pushed him away. I called him names when I was angry, we had blazing rows instigated by me, I verbally lashed out time after time. I honestly don't know why he stayed. I wouldn't have if the shoe was on the other foot. I couldn't see for years that I'd pressed the self-destruct button on my own life and in doing so, brought him down with me. I am so ashamed of that and would do anything to take it back.

I reached a turning point in my own life a couple of years ago. I hit rock bottom, sought counselling, really engaged in anger management classes and a class on violence (included verbal / emotional abuse) in relationships. I worked so hard to improve myself and vow to never ever go back there.

We are still married but honestly, I fear I've caused the end of my marriage because of things I said and did in the past. But that is on me, not my DH.

Just like it's on yours. It is his fault you felt you had to seek support outside of the relationship. He doesn't have a right to dictate where you work. Fuck his hurt feelings. He can feel how he wants but he doesn't have a right to dictate you change jobs. He doesn't have a right to dictate anything! Speaking from experience I know that people can change but it's hard, they have to be willing to face up to their mistakes and put the work in. If he's serious about changing, it'll be painful for him but he has to get through it. It's not on you to help him through it though, it's on him. So many things are sending red flags up to me about how things are for you. During all of this, I would never dictate to my DH he needs to change jobs. Honestly, if he'd had an affair, I'd forgive him because I'd recognise it was me that pushed him into it, me that felt he wasn't loved and supported in our marriage. I would never push him into sex - if he wants it and feels comfortable enough then great but otherwise, no way. Even past experiences aside, nobody should be coercing anybody into having sex, which is what it sounds like he is doing to you right now.

You have to work out if this is what you really want, regardless of how he feels or what he threatens. As others have suggested, a trial separation might help. If he's not onboard, then you've got your answer. If he truly loves you, respects you and is committed to change, he will be willing to try absolutely anything including a trial separation.

I'm concerned that you've said you need to space to consider things and he is pushing you for lots of sex to 'bond' with you.

I get where you're coming from and apologies for those I have concerned with this!! He is very much not pressuring me, he's asked for it and asked if I am actually into it or just humouring him, so I don't feel pressured by him (just pressuring myself more than anything I think).

Steps you say.......but he's not actually IN therapy at the moment, is he?

He's actually starting it tomorrow!!

Is he like this towards his boss? Towards big men when he gets frustrated at them? If not, he doesn't have a general, impulsive anger problem (not that it would make everything ok).

Really good point and the answer is no. He clearly knows when it's 'acceptable' to let rip and when he wouldn't get away with it!

You have now seen a darker side to him, and ugly side. Once you've seen that in your partner, it's difficult to come back from, often with good reason. It actually means you know what's healthy in a relationship and you know deep down what you respect in a man and this isn't it.

Sadly I think this is true. A large part of me has lost all respect for a large part of him, and even if he does change (which I know he is dedicated to doing), I'm not sure how to get that back.

NCf0rth1s thank you so much for sharing your experience. It sounds like you've done so well to change your behaviours. I think you're right that a trial separation will help me, as others have suggested.

I've got a counselling session booked in for next week to help me work through my feelings. I just wish it was sooner!

Can I just say thank you to everyone for your thoughtful and insightful comments. I really do appreciate each of you taking the time to offer your views and support.

OP I have gone through a situation pretty much identical albeit it was never a full blown affair.

We are now separated and divorcing and I honestly feel relieved.

For me (and us) it's just too much water under the bridge now.

Don't leave your job please OP! Once the dust has settled, he will revert to treating you badly x 20.

You're letting your guilt and fear of splitting up blindside you.

If he says it's a deal breaker, fine. Let him go, it gives you a good get out clause.

You say he's a good dad, well he's not because he's not a good person.

It's just such a huge thing to separate, isn't it? Huge impact on our wider family, our financials, home, future plans, not to mention our child.

Think he is losing patience with me needing space and not giving him any emotion, he's just told me that while he is currently open to reconciling, he doesn't want me to leave things too late and get to a point when I'm ready to reconnect but he's over it (he was at pains to point out that that was not a threat, just the reality of where things are heading). Also had a reminder of how abominably I'd behaved (which I have) and he still wasn't sure if he'd be able to get over it!

I guess the question is, are you basically freezing like a mouse and waiting for the cat to lose interest and wander off? Are you hoping that eventually he’ll come to realise splitting up is the best thing, if you just stay within yourself for long enough. If he came to you and said “that’s it @helplesshopeless I’m packing my bags and leaving today” would you panic or feel slightly relieved?

Have you managed to speak to a counsellor yet btw? I know obviously we MNers are totally qualified but we don’t know the whole situation obviously and can’t really compare.

Hope you have got that hug you need, and are taking care of yourself. Any split will be painful, upsetting and cause the disturbances you mention. But that’s the short term. Have you spoken to any family members about his behaviour in the past? They might be pleased to think of you getting out.

It is a monumental task OP, this is why I put it off for so long I think. But actually it's not been as bad as I imagined- the world is still spinning, I still have friends and family etc.

For me it was a case of short term major upheaval and upset verses long term stress and resentment. Staying in a marriage through obligation is no way to live.

thethermalstair you are so so insightful! You're right, I do feel like I'm freezing/shutting down in the hope that I'm not the one to have to call it. If he decided it was the end i'd obviously be upset about what was to come, how things would work out for our child, but there would be relief overall. Is that selfish though? I feel like I'm being so so selfish. Our child is so happy when we're all together having family times

I have the counselling session booked in for next weds, gutted she couldn't do it sooner as I really need help!

luckyreds glad to hear things haven't been as bad for you as you'd feared. Well done for going for it. Staying in the marriage through obligation is a pretty accurate summary of where I'm at!

Whatever happens if you stay together or if you separate its going to be hard and I agree with other perhaps you need to separate for a while, if you do please discuss what that means and what is expected in terms of that separation.

Again I am in different circumstances (no abuse etc) but my wife is leaving to be with OM and I have lived this situation just over a year, she's bounced back between myself and him so I have had glimpses of being on my own vs reconciliation and both options bring their own emotional roller coaster of feelings and thoughts.

My point is I am so involved in this situation I don't think its given me any time to think about what's actually happened or given me breathing room to think about what I want and perhaps once my wife actually moves out I will be able to take a step back and see the situation for what it is. I !!know!! in my head its so toxic because she goes out to see him while living at home and with me YET my heart wants to re-connect with her for some unknown reason and all I can say is I love her. Its not easy this and I can read your angst from your posts and I hope you find peace soon from this whatever decision you make.

Ah, well that makes a lot of sense.

Is that selfish though?
If you were in his place (i.e. you've been an arsehole and mistreated your spouse for years, they have then had an emotional affair and the whole shooting match is in question) what would seem the kindest and best thing.
Thinking it over, the selfish thing in any relationship is expecting the more "in love" one to do the breaking up. I've seen friends go through it and it's agony, especially when the one who's obviously less invested/emotionally checking out has SAID they want the relationship to continue and refused efforts to split.

Again, you don't need to rush this, but as PP said, being clear about how you really feel and the confusion, and setting a timetable for working things out (whether living together or apart) is the healthy thing to do. As much of an arsehole as your partner has been, he doesn't deserve to find out years later that his wife has been with him out of obligation the whole time.

Having said that, I do wonder how much of the "freezing" you've learnt from the years of browbeating he's dished out, and how scared you may actually feel of his behaviour if you were to leave or call it a day. Is that a factor?

feeficken thanks for your thoughts and I'm so sorry to hear what you're going through, that sounds really tough. I hope things settle down with youI soon and you find some peace. Appreciate your thoughts about being really clear about what separation means and how it might work. I can safely say though I'm not flitting between my husband and the OM, I have had no contact with him since this all kicked off.

thethermalstair I think my withdrawn numbness is just a continuation of how I've been for years to keep things ticking along - perky and chatty on the outside to maintain normality, shut down on the inside. Except now I'm struggling with the perky chatty bit, now that I've been forced to un-bury my head from the sand and confront the issues!

I guess I'm just worried that I'm sabotaging myself in some way with this frozen feeling, and also wondering whether I am being selfish by not just allowing us to go back to my usual pretence, especially if he does follow through with improving his behaviour. It works for our child, and for him, so 2/3 isn't so bad!

Sorry, missed this bit

I do wonder how much of the "freezing" you've learnt from the years of browbeating he's dished out, and how scared you may actually feel of his behaviour if you were to leave or call it a day. Is that a factor?

Definitely learnt the freezing/withdrawing as a way of protecting myself. Also definitely dreading how he might behave if we did call it a day. But as well just generally struggling to unlock myself again to be open to working on things after all this time.

That is really sad! I'm sorry you've been living like this for so long. I asked earlier if your family or friends have ever been able to see the nasty side of him? Or have you kept that hidden from them?

It works for our child, and for him, so 2/3 isn't so bad!

Come on, what would you say if a friend or someone you loved said that to you about their one and only life?

I can't help but think if this was all reversed and a woman posted on here saying my husband had an emotional affair, blamed it on me and now refuses to leave his job working with the other woman because he doesn't want to be "trapped" mumsnet would have a very different view....

Op only you know your husband and your relationship and whether your husband was truly abusive or not. If you don't want to be with him because of who he is and how he has treated you then please leave, especially if he really is abusive. Maybe you need a counsellor to help you figure that out. If you want to stay and work on your relationship it will require effort from him to make you happy of course but its not unreasonable for him to ask you to cut contact with the other man to rebuild trust. Most people trying to recover from any type of infidelity will put that rule in place. Keeping your job and your husband is like being on the fence and stringing your husband along and keeping your options open. You have to choose im afraid.

Also, if he really is abusive with bad anger problems and you are scared for yourself around him definitely leave. I have been through the pain of being cheated on and that coupled with someone who has anger issues could be very dangerous if he is truly out of control.

That is really sad! I'm sorry you've been living like this for so long. I asked earlier if your family or friends have ever been able to see the nasty side of him? Or have you kept that hidden from them?

I can't work out if I'm being dramatic! Day to day life has honestly been ok, I work and have lots of fun with our child, and we have had nice family times. Just the other side of things have been less pleasant and caused this void I think.

The friend I went to see on Wednesday knows about this and she said she's not surprised it's got to this, as she hates how he treats me (and she only saw part of it). I went quiet on her for a few days when this all came out last week and she was panicking he'd landed me in hospital - he'd never hurt me like that but I guess it demonstrates the side she's seen of him! I lost another friend years ago because she didn't like him. My family have seen tiny snippets but very limited and they'd never judge anyone at all, so I don't know what they'd make of this.

Come on, what would you say if a friend or someone you loved said that to you about their one and only life?

Yes, fair point! Our tiny little person doesn't get a say in this though

strawberriesandcreams you're absolutely right, I know I don't deserve all of the niceness that I'm getting here. I see your point about the job as well, and I understand why he's asked that of me. My counselling session can't come soon enough!