What is normal re contact with work colleagues outside of work?

[Chutneypearls]

This is really grating on me but I don’t know if my past is getting the better of me and I need some perspective. I am in my second marriage, been together 12 years or so now, 2 dc. I am older than dh by about 8 years. My ex dh cheated on me with an ex he’d reconnected with on Facebook and left me for her.

I literally have no idea what’s normal re boundaries with members of the opposite sex at work and what’s normal and acceptable re messaging anymore.

Dh and I have a great, normal, happy marriage. Nothing really to report. We’re very close, he doesn’t have any friends or social life outside of work and neither do I and that’s how it’s always been and we’ve always been happy with this (both of us quite introverted). He works close to home, spends all time at home, never works late or goes out apart from literally time he’s at work. Shares parenting equally etc etc.

He works in an office with mostly women. One of these women - someone in his team, not senior to him, or vice versa, same level- has become his friend and now they message each other a lot. He doesn’t hide his phone, I know all the passwords etc, he’s not sneaking out or doing anything dodgy, it’s just a lot of random shit chatty messages. And I don’t like it. But I don’t really feel I can say anything because it’s not a secret as such, and he mentions her and others at work, and it’s all just friendly... is this ok? Is this what others do with people they work with?

I’m trying to be okay about it but I don’t like the fact for example I’ve gone to move his phone this morning (usually make him a tea and put it next to his tea for him) and it’s flashed up with a message from her. I think if you’re messaging someone that early on a weekend it’s a bit weird - she’s mid 20s with a young child in a long term relationship herself. The message itself seems to be a sort of laugh at a meme type thing.

Anyway. Tell me what kind of contact you have with people you work with. If they’re men and you’re a woman do you message them outside of work about stuff? Do you think it’s okay for people to do that?

I haven’t said anything as I don’t want to be a controlling nag. But I’m sitting here feeling really weird about it.

People are being so precious about this so-called "friendship". At best it seems to be an acquaintance where one party is messaging indiscriminately (albeit innocently). In this case, it is perfectly acceptable to keep a distance and still be friendly at work. Its not all or nothing, you know...

Her DP clearly sees her as more than an acquaintance, else he wouldn't keep messaging her in the way that he does.

All this pearl-clutching about why would you shun a "friend"? Why would you make your DH uncomfortable?

It's not pearl-clutching to think friends should be treated with decency and respect. And I would argue that the OP is making her DH uncomfortable by interfering in his friendships.

But OP talks of HER discomfort and is getting it with both barrels. Doesn't seem fair.

She posted on here for opinions and got them. People are allowed to disagree with her and what she's saying.

OP talk to your DH and see if this is a friendship worth pursuing. Is he just flattered by all the attention? Or is there something he enjoys on a deeper level? Even platonically. Good friendships start with an element of shared something- DC in same class, shared hobby or sense of humour, even just physical proximity.

Why on earth should he have to justify his friendships to anyone? He's an adult and more than capable of deciding who to be friends with without someone sitting him down and talking to him about it.

I am really thick with my team-mate who sits next to me. We yak constantly, sometimes go for lunch together etc etc. Yes he is a man and yes we have each other's phone numbers. But the only time we have messaged each other outside hours is when we planned to meet up at the railway station for the office Xmas dinner. Once in 3 years.

But that's your choice. It has no baring on the situation at hand.

I know I keep proselytizing about boundaries but even without OP feeling uncomfortable, shouldn't the husband see this can become a very icky dynamic? And trust me on this: People. Will. Notice.

Men and women can be friends without it becoming "icky" (whatever that's supposed to mean) and IMO, grown adults generally don't give a shit who other adults are friends with. I worked in a team where I was the only female for a year - by default my friends were male and we would spend time together outside of work. Nobody commented and it never once became "icky".

Now I understand why Sunflowers is cool with all day texting...having spent Easter Saturday basically heavily invested on this post all day. That's a lot of screen action.

People are very different.

Ah lovely Sunflowers again no one may have commented to YOU. But I can bet my last pound there would have been speculations, gossip. Even though what is being said is nothing remotely approaching the truth. If you had heard any of these nuggets, you would have struggled to recognise yourself. A normal friendship anywhere else takes on a new avatar at workplaces. With a low level nudge-nudge wink-wink thing going on.

And that is what I meant by the "icky" dynamic. If the friendship is NOT between peers, it become 10x more speculated upon...

I am older now and don't really bother with the squawking. But having heard and seen these interactions, I've learnt to keep workplace bits to the workplace.

I digress, sorry OP didnt mean to derail.

@Gilda152

Now I understand why Sunflowers is cool with all day texting...having spent Easter Saturday basically heavily invested on this post all day. That's a lot of screen action.

People are very different.

Yep, thank goodness for that.

No need for the snide attack on how I spend my free time, though :)

@Amrapaali

Ah lovely Sunflowers again no one may have commented to YOU. But I can bet my last pound there would have been speculations, gossip. Even though what is being said is nothing remotely approaching the truth. If you had heard any of these nuggets, you would have struggled to recognise yourself. A normal friendship anywhere else takes on a new avatar at workplaces. With a low level nudge-nudge wink-wink thing going on.

And that is what I meant by the "icky" dynamic. If the friendship is NOT between peers, it become 10x more speculated upon...

I am older now and don't really bother with the squawking. But having heard and seen these interactions, I've learnt to keep workplace bits to the workplace.

I digress, sorry OP didnt mean to derail.

Ah lovely Sunflowers again no one may have commented to YOU.

Do you have any idea how patronising you're coming across? I'm not some kind of oblivious idiot, thank you.

But I can bet my last pound there would have been speculations, gossip. Even though what is being said is nothing remotely approaching the truth. If you had heard any of these nuggets, you would have struggled to recognise yourself. A normal friendship anywhere else takes on a new avatar at workplaces. With a low level nudge-nudge wink-wink thing going on.

Nope, because the people I worked with didn't behave like teenagers who just want to spread malicious gossip about others. We were all friends, and socialised together outside of work (in pairs, threes or all together). I wasn't going to stop being friends with people because I happened to work in an all-male environment - that's just silly.

And that is what I meant by the "icky" dynamic. If the friendship is NOT between peers, it become 10x more speculated upon...

Oh well, people can think whatever they like, can't they? It doesn't have to impact how I behave in any way.

I am older now and don't really bother with the squawking. But having heard and seen these interactions, I've learnt to keep workplace bits to the workplace.

Again, your choice. That doesn't mean other people have to behave in the same was as you do, though. I've made some incredible friends through my jobs - I'm now self-employed and am great friends with many clients, too. I'm very glad I haven't placed such arbitrary restrictions on my life.

No one on here can comment about other people being on here 😂

@Fembot123

No one on here can comment about other people being on here 😂

Thank you

@sunflowersandbuttercups Ap0logies if I sounded patronising. It wasn't my intention. I was going for "wise elder" (btw I'm neither wise nor elder!)

But I still stand by weird workplace dynamics. Also when you have worked with someone for 8 hours straight, what else can you share again in the evenings and weekends? I admit it may be different with a younger cohort who live in each others pockets in work and outside as well.

Which is what the OP also asked previously. "Is this normal among the social media generation?" If you fit this demographic, you can answer that.

But instead you seem very quick to dismiss other people's lived experiences. "No one does that" "This is not a healthy way to live" etc. You seem very definitive in your pronouncements.

Anyway I've said my bit. This is not about you or me. And we shouldn't be creating side drama on this thread.

@sunflowersandbuttercups Ap0logies if I sounded patronising. It wasn't my intention. I was going for "wise elder" (btw I'm neither wise nor elder!)

No worries!

But I still stand by weird workplace dynamics. Also when you have worked with someone for 8 hours straight, what else can you share again in the evenings and weekends? I admit it may be different with a younger cohort who live in each others pockets in work and outside as well.

We didn't live in each others pockets and there were people of all ages there - from 19 to 65. We all behaved in pretty similar ways. Maybe I've just been lucky, who knows.

Which is what the OP also asked previously. "Is this normal among the social media generation?" If you fit this demographic, you can answer that.

I suppose I do fit that generation though, as I'm early thirties.

But instead you seem very quick to dismiss other people's lived experiences. "No one does that" "This is not a healthy way to live" etc. You seem very definitive in your pronouncements.

But you've been just as definitive in your pronouncements too.

Anyway I've said my bit. This is not about you or me. And we shouldn't be creating side drama on this thread.

I don't feel it's drama at all - threads naturally evolve over time.

The amount of posts shows this is a topic that is relevant in the modern workplace.

I think a one to one intense 'banter' relationship with a member of the opposite sex could appear to be threatening even if the relationship is entirely platonic.

Unfortunately I am sure infidelities have arisen from such situations. Certainly not all but it can happen.

I think we set slightly different social boundaries with members of the opposite sex. I am not advocating segregated work places but I think there are natural social norms evolved over the centuries and tech only complicates things.

Maybe this is a bit of an age thing? I think once in our 30s we have enough experience to determine what and what isn't comfortable.

I do wonder if it’s an age thing. I’ve been having a good think and I think part of what is really annoying me is that since she’s begun messaging dh generally seems more glued to his phone. We will be in the queue in Tesco or something and he’ll whip out his phone and start tapping away. Or we will be in the car, I’ll drive and he’ll sit tapping away replying. Before he would occasionally sit and click through Instagram on the way home from somewhere but he wasn’t so engaged in whatever it was. It’s like he’s reverted to being a bit like our 18 year old dd (mine from my first marriage, his step dd but raised as his own) ie glued to his phone. I feel like he’s sometimes not actually completely “present” and that irritates me. Of course when we’re home relaxing it’s a free for all and I am as much addicted to my phone as he is in terms of relaxing and online browsing but it annoys me that we will be out somewhere doing something family wise and she will ping him and he’ll whip his phone out to reply. It’s intrusive.

I do use social media myself. I have Facebook but I only have a handful of people on it (literally a handful) and I have a private Instagram that I use mainly to look at stuff online and tag dh and dd in the occasional meme. I am not into publishing selfies or using social media in the same way as this woman is (she has a public Instagram with lots of selfies and does a lot of hashtags to gain likes and followers etc). Perhaps from that respect she is just a much younger, more online type person than me and that’s why I’m finding it very odd because until now dh has never been like this.

I used to work with a large staff of teachers about 80. Obviously I got on better with some than others. I had 6 or 7 colleagues who I text outside of work. 2 were male and others female. I went out with female colleagues occasionally. I was happily married. I got on very well with one male in particular. We had same sense of humour. He was happily married. We used to text each other every couple of days outside of work. My dh was fine with it and he met him several times. He told me one day his wife who was pregnant was feeling a bit insecure do we cut back on texting to about once a week or sometimes not at all some weeks but we still sat together in same group at lunch. Then he came in and said his wife was paranoid about him texting friends and do I backed off and stopped texting him. He still text me sometimes but really there was nothing at all romantic in it. When his baby was born I got him an outfit. Several staff got him outfits for baby. When baby was about 4 months he came in to work upset and said he had to hand his notice in as his wife would leave him else. Very sad for him his wife was so over the top suspicious not just of me but several work colleagues. She never attended work events with him even before they had baby. Sometimes colleagues just become friends regardless of sex.

I am wondering if your husband sees himself as something like a knight in shining armour or something like that to her. Emotional energy is being used on this woman rather than you people as his family and this will and indeed is causing problems within your marriage.

I would tread carefully, this seems to be heading into emotional affair territory. And this woman he is communicating with is no friend of your marriage either. Would he be willing to see a counsellor with you now?.

All this communication with each other is creating a sense of intimacy which would not normally be present. That further heightens emotions and he needs to acknowledge your feelings of unease here rather than get annoyed by them. Both of them are at fault here and boundaries are being ignored and otherwise stepped over.

I think at 20 you may be not as aware of these unwritten boundaries but with age the potential (and I emphasise potential) consequences of crossing these boundaries become apparent.

Setting boundaries we are all comfortable with??

I'm surprised your husband has Instagram OP

Well, from your most recent post I think your issue is with his behaviour (poor phone etiquette), not hers. She’s probably not expecting him to drop everything in Tesco to reply immediately to something she sent — she might even think it’s quite strange to get an immediate reply to some meme or something that doesn’t require any response at all.

Again, I can’t help but feel it may stem in part from his inexperience with friendships.

I haven’t been anywhere near my mobile since this morning, and when I picked it up just now I had about ten messages from friends, about anything from arranging a time to talk, or a walk, asking about some recent ill health, aside from things on family and friend groups. The individual ones I will respond to tomorrow. The others don’t need a response.

@TeachesOfPeaches

I'm surprised your husband has Instagram OP

He is interested in a specific type of art and uses it to follow people / accounts related to this. He does however follow the woman from work however... ! But he also follows a few of his relatives etc. So it’s not as if she’s the only person he follows but equally he doesn’t really use it as a social medium as such.

Thank you all for the replies.

My 15 year old doesn't WhatsApp one friend multiple times every day. I just asked dh, who is, unlike me, popular, if he's texting any work colleagues this weekend. He rofl. Sorry op but please trust your instincts. This is emotional affair territory. You were right to raise it with him. Dh has lots of female friends. He's free to see who he likes. But if one them began contacting him multiple times a day, I would smell a rat.

My 15 year old doesn't WhatsApp one friend multiple times every day

But someone else's 15 year old might do. We humans are not all the same in our behaviours.

@ninthcircle

In fairness, @SandyY2K, this man apparently doesn’t have any other friends at all, so there’s literally no one else he could be communicating with

No family members even?

Amrapaali

Reality: OP is not happy with this level of contact between her husband And another woman. Her feelings are perfectly legitimate. And I for one wouldn't gaslight her.

A public forum will produce a range of responses from a range of people.
Not everyone will agree with the OP and she's not being gaslighted. A different opinion isn't gaslighting.

@Fembot123
Then this is a matter for them and not us, ask a question on a forum and you will get people’s opinions/anecdotes. I would have thought that much would be obvious.

I agree with you.

Both dh and I don’t have any close family. He is no contact with his except for a couple of distant cousins (abuse issues) and my only relative - my abusive mother - died two years ago. Neither of us have any other relatives. So we really are a very close, odd to many type family. It also puts us in a difficult position in that we have no extended family to rely on in terms of childcare or help if my health issues flare up. This isn’t ideal but the complexities of trying to befriend people just to bridge this gap causes all sorts of stresses itself.

Our situation is quite unique and different from most peoples. So it probably seems very strange to others.

We’ve just sat and talked it out. He is adamant she’s just a work friend and basically they’re just either talking about work or random funny internet crap and he’s annoyed I’m upset about it. I’ve said more or less what I’ve said here, and that if he wants to have friends he needs to cultivate these elsewhere. He said he doesn’t want to have friends.

I’ve said I don’t care what he does at work, if he chats to her all day at work that’s fine but when he’s home with us I don’t expect to see her name pinging up all the time. He’s deleted her off Instagram and deleted his own Facebook account (which he never uses anyway to be fair). We are both pissed off with each other and I have said to him I fully accept the fact I am so antisocial means I have no point of reference.

I’m probably done with the thread now but I want to thank you all for your comments, support and pointing out where I’m being a complete arse.

That's a bit over the top. Deleting his Facebook? Deleting her off Instagram? Sounds like a bit of a sulk to me :/ A mini rage-quit. Has he ever heard of the slow fade? All he had to do was just not reply as often until she started to get the message that it was getting a bit too much.

I agree earthsight the overreaction speaks volumes

@Gilda152

I agree earthsight the overreaction speaks volumes

Another that agrees the overreacting is a little bit suspicious. And he followed her on Instagram too and Facebook that he hardly ever uses?