What is normal re contact with work colleagues outside of work?

[Chutneypearls]

This is really grating on me but I don’t know if my past is getting the better of me and I need some perspective. I am in my second marriage, been together 12 years or so now, 2 dc. I am older than dh by about 8 years. My ex dh cheated on me with an ex he’d reconnected with on Facebook and left me for her.

I literally have no idea what’s normal re boundaries with members of the opposite sex at work and what’s normal and acceptable re messaging anymore.

Dh and I have a great, normal, happy marriage. Nothing really to report. We’re very close, he doesn’t have any friends or social life outside of work and neither do I and that’s how it’s always been and we’ve always been happy with this (both of us quite introverted). He works close to home, spends all time at home, never works late or goes out apart from literally time he’s at work. Shares parenting equally etc etc.

He works in an office with mostly women. One of these women - someone in his team, not senior to him, or vice versa, same level- has become his friend and now they message each other a lot. He doesn’t hide his phone, I know all the passwords etc, he’s not sneaking out or doing anything dodgy, it’s just a lot of random shit chatty messages. And I don’t like it. But I don’t really feel I can say anything because it’s not a secret as such, and he mentions her and others at work, and it’s all just friendly... is this ok? Is this what others do with people they work with?

I’m trying to be okay about it but I don’t like the fact for example I’ve gone to move his phone this morning (usually make him a tea and put it next to his tea for him) and it’s flashed up with a message from her. I think if you’re messaging someone that early on a weekend it’s a bit weird - she’s mid 20s with a young child in a long term relationship herself. The message itself seems to be a sort of laugh at a meme type thing.

Anyway. Tell me what kind of contact you have with people you work with. If they’re men and you’re a woman do you message them outside of work about stuff? Do you think it’s okay for people to do that?

I haven’t said anything as I don’t want to be a controlling nag. But I’m sitting here feeling really weird about it.

@Amrapaali

Many posters here aren't seeing the wood for the trees. We are all (me included) coming at it from our own personal experiences and values. "Oh I have a male colleague who is also my friend for 15 years" "My colleagues are such a hoot we share everything" and so on...

If we look at it from a very pared down perspective, a partnered human finds her spouse expending time and energy on another female. This female is unknown but younger and could be a potential sexual rival. If this happened to me I would feel disconcerted. Even a bit threatened. I think this is natural from a purely biological, hind- brain point of view.

The fact it is a colleague, a tennis instructor, your mum's neighbour: that is all irrelevant. So is the fact of the introverted personality. Or the fact Covid has restricted activities. That is all complicated what-aboutery.

Reality: OP is not happy with this level of contact between her husband And another woman. Her feelings are perfectly legitimate. And I for one wouldn't gaslight her.

And before anyone asks: if my DH was uneasy about the level of contact I had with my male friends, I would definitely take a closer look at myself. This can be successfully handled in an intimate, non-abusive relationship. (I can't stress the last point enough. It's one thing to forbid ypur spouse talking to members of the opposite sex, yet another to have respectful boundaries you are both comfortable with)

Agree.

Have any men responded in this thread? I can't really tell.

I was in a similar scenario. Married to an older woman (also have no interest in sport). I started a new job. Open plan office surrounded by recent graduates who had virtually no work/home boundaries at all. I would get messages at any time of the day or night. Not only that, I would get invited to their social events too.

I can see parallels here. My wife also "moved my phone" and saw a message from a female colleague pop up. One she had met socially, so knew she was stunning (her words). It was innocent, but it sowed the seeds of jealousy that contributed to us breaking up.

@Amrapaali

Many posters here aren't seeing the wood for the trees. We are all (me included) coming at it from our own personal experiences and values. "Oh I have a male colleague who is also my friend for 15 years" "My colleagues are such a hoot we share everything" and so on...

If we look at it from a very pared down perspective, a partnered human finds her spouse expending time and energy on another female. This female is unknown but younger and could be a potential sexual rival. If this happened to me I would feel disconcerted. Even a bit threatened. I think this is natural from a purely biological, hind- brain point of view.

The fact it is a colleague, a tennis instructor, your mum's neighbour: that is all irrelevant. So is the fact of the introverted personality. Or the fact Covid has restricted activities. That is all complicated what-aboutery.

Reality: OP is not happy with this level of contact between her husband And another woman. Her feelings are perfectly legitimate. And I for one wouldn't gaslight her.

And before anyone asks: if my DH was uneasy about the level of contact I had with my male friends, I would definitely take a closer look at myself. This can be successfully handled in an intimate, non-abusive relationship. (I can't stress the last point enough. It's one thing to forbid ypur spouse talking to members of the opposite sex, yet another to have respectful boundaries you are both comfortable with)

But the OP has an unusually pared-down idea of what’s ‘normal’ for her marriage, which is that neither she nor her husband have any friends or social lives at all outside of one another, and thinks that him receiving a random meme from his colleague early in the morning is ‘disrespectful and inappropriate because the colleague ‘knows he’s at home with us’.

The female colleague, who is also in a committed relationship with a young child, doesn’t know this because she’s not privy to the unusual norms of the OP’s marriage, which is that 100% of her husband’s attention is on the OP and their household. Presumably it works differently in her relationship, and both parties have friendships outside the couple.

I got a text from a male friend at 1.30 am this morning. He’s not being obtrusive, he just keeps late hours, thought of something he wanted to tell me, and knows I turn my phone off at night so wouldn’t see it till this morning. I haven’t replied. I probably won’t until much later. He messages me far more than I message him, because he has far fewer friends/family than I do, lives alone, and only has his children EOW. But I value his friendship in an uncomplicated way.

@sunflowersandbuttercups

Reality: OP is not happy with this level of contact between her husband And another woman. Her feelings are perfectly legitimate. And I for one wouldn't gaslight her.

They may be legitimate but that doesn't make them rational or an acceptable reason to try and curtail her husbands' friendships imo.

If she's not happy of course she should speak up - as she has done.

@sunflowersandbuttercups I dont think the OP has ever mentioned curtailing her husbands activities ??!

Her orignal post was to do with the level of normal texting between colleagues in the workplace. And posters have replied correctly there is no "normal" - it is a how-long-is-a-piece-of-string question.

Oh, and if the other woman has a small child, she may have been up from the crack of dawn. I have something currently going on that means I’m up extremely early every morning, at at my desk before 7.30. I have to remind myself that other people aren’t going to be responding to emails that early.

@Amrapaali

Many posters here aren't seeing the wood for the trees. We are all (me included) coming at it from our own personal experiences and values. "Oh I have a male colleague who is also my friend for 15 years" "My colleagues are such a hoot we share everything" and so on...

If we look at it from a very pared down perspective, a partnered human finds her spouse expending time and energy on another female. This female is unknown but younger and could be a potential sexual rival. If this happened to me I would feel disconcerted. Even a bit threatened. I think this is natural from a purely biological, hind- brain point of view.

The fact it is a colleague, a tennis instructor, your mum's neighbour: that is all irrelevant. So is the fact of the introverted personality. Or the fact Covid has restricted activities. That is all complicated what-aboutery.

Reality: OP is not happy with this level of contact between her husband And another woman. Her feelings are perfectly legitimate. And I for one wouldn't gaslight her.

And before anyone asks: if my DH was uneasy about the level of contact I had with my male friends, I would definitely take a closer look at myself. This can be successfully handled in an intimate, non-abusive relationship. (I can't stress the last point enough. It's one thing to forbid ypur spouse talking to members of the opposite sex, yet another to have respectful boundaries you are both comfortable with)

Biology is an unhelpful way of looking at things. It justifies paranoia as "natural" and something legitimate, something you can't control.

It's the flipside of evolutionary psychology, something you see come up a lot in the more misogynistic corners of the internet to justify toxic masculinity. Men cheating? Biologically determined? Men being violent? Biologically determined! Women only needing to be protected, not being independent? Biologically determined?

My girlfriend goes for dinner with a long standing male colleague friend, in fact she went last week.
She's also in a work group.
I'm not really bothered, although on occasion the chatter has crossed boundaries into family life. A quick nudge and the chatter quietens down. Although in the main she shares very little about her personal life and our relationship. She's always had interests outside of work.
I don't want people knowing my business, it's private.

The thing is, lots of people's identity revolves around their work, personally mines separate, always has been. Business, family, friends, friends and family sometimes cross over. I often find people over invested in banter or office politics work issues before an after are actually quite tediously boring.
Start at 9 finish at 5 and then disconnect.

In this case messaging at 8-30 am, I would think is a little over invested, whether it's EA territory, probably not however people have different boundaries. He's needs to ignore her messaging because it may lead to chatter and gossip.
If it's intruding into your marriage then talk about it, compromise and move on.

Having read through all your posts OP I agree with you that in this case it is potentially suspicious.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with being friends with a work colleague in general, or anyone else for that matter. But to continuously message someone 1 to 1 on non- working days suggests an exvessive interest in them. And for your DP to be annoyed by you mentioning it suggests he very much enjoys it too.

Sorry, but I would be worried. As you say, it's what you might do if you fancied someone. Technology might have changed but human nature hasn't.

Listen to your gut feeling. Nip it in the bud.

Biology is an unhelpful way of looking at things. @gannett Agree completely. That is why I finished my post saying this should be resolved inside the relationship in a respectful way. But that first kick of instinct? May be mistrust or even an almighty crush- cannot discount a little bit of biology.

@Hrpuffnstuff1 has illustrated what I was trying to say. A gentle nudge to remind partner that family life has a demarcation to work life.

"Technology might have changed but human nature hasn't."

This.

@sunflowersandbuttercups I dont think the OP has ever mentioned curtailing her husbands activities

Not directly, no.

However what are the options here, realistically? If she accepts the friendship as it is, it seems she'll just become increasingly resentful over time as it's not a level of contact she's happy with.

So then her husband is in a position where he curtails his contact with his friend to keep the peace at home. Or, it just pushes the contact "underground" so to speak.

OP has said herself she is incredibly introverted and has no friendships outside of her marriage. That, to me, is not a healthy way to live and it's normal for her husband to want to have friendships and social communication outside of that.

If the level of contact is too much for him then he's quite capable of saying so. But his friendships are his business - it's really not someone else's place to tell him how much contact he's allowed with his colleagues outside of work.

I have a group of 3 guys and 3 girls we regularly whatsapp / have calls / have lunches / dinners as a group. Would all speak individually too .

Would go over to their houses for coffee / lunch , they would come to my place both with my partner here and without .

Can have friends 😂

Sounds like you're suspicious about something

But to continuously message someone 1 to 1 on non- working days suggests an exvessive interest in them.

Or it suggests a close friendship. Would you say it was an "excessive interest" if it was a male colleague he was texting instead?

And for your DP to be annoyed by you mentioning it suggests he very much enjoys it too.

Maybe he does, and why is that a problem? I would be extremely pissed off in his shoes. I'm good friends with many of my clients and speak to them on a social basis as well as a work one.

Life isn't so black and white as "work is work, home is home". Were humans, not robots, and the vast majority of us need more human interaction than what our partner and child can provide.

When you work with someone 40+ hours a week it's normal to become friends with them - and continuing that friendship outside of work is totally normal too.

Also

"We’re very close, he doesn’t have any friends or social life outside of work and neither do I "

Sorry but this isn't healthy or normal

I had similar happen early in my relationship with my DP messaging a female friend. Some of the messages were verging on inappropriate and when I was honest and said I wasn't happy my DP said it was 'just banter'.
The other woman was a lot younger than me and seemed to enjoy flirting with him.
When she sent a meme about jealous girlfriends that did it for me, I asked him to stop contacting her altogether.
Controlling? Yes. Happier in our relationship without this shit going on? Yes.
It's disrespectful of the other woman and she's crossing a line. What a dull life she must lead to to be on her phone all the time without a second thought to how this might be affecting your relationship.
If this was pre mobile phones would she be popping round several times a day or ringing the house phone, because it's the equivalent of that.
Well done on voicing your concerns OP. We are designed as humans to react to any threat and you are protecting what means everything to you, your relationship.

OP has said herself she is incredibly introverted and has no friendships outside of her marriage. That, to me, is not a healthy way to live

According to YOU.

OP has mentioned she and husband are happy with this level of social engagement. Why question it? And why use that as a mitigating factor in this scenario?

"Or it suggests a close friendship. Would you say it was an "excessive interest" if it was a male colleague he was texting instead?"

Yes, if it was impacting on their partner's home life. She has said they don't have a social life outside of themselves (whatever anyone's personal view of that might be) and this relationship is intruding on that. So she has a problem with it even if he doesn't, and why should she not tackle that if she feels uncomfortable? She has never said he can't have friends, in fact she encouraged him to pursue a hobby he used to have that involved a group of people.

Seeing friends individually is 100% fine. But having a friendship that is so intense it disturbs a partner's home life isn't.

Reading all your replies with interest.

I understand that others will think I’m incredibly odd that I’m so unsocial. And that’s fine. As I said upthread we are all different. It doesn’t mean I don’t have discussions with people - I’m here aren’t I (!) and I enjoy debates and discussions online. I just personally don’t enjoy intense friendships with lots of messages, popping out for coffees, seeing people etc. Some of that is health related. I have complex and chronic health issues and once I’m done caring for the dc and my own needs I’m pretty much craving some alone and down time. I’ve always enjoyed my own space. Used to play for hours on my own as an only child and always had my head stuck in a book. I used to actively like to play on my own at lunchtimes. So what I’m saying is that others may find this odd but it’s perfectly normal for me personally. However, this doesn’t mean I expect dh to be the same. I would struggle if he suddenly turned into one of these men who went cycling all weekend or spent every evening at the pub because that’s not the kind of life I want, but a few friends to go out with sometimes or message etc sure! No problem at all. None. Unless they’re a 20 something woman from work who keeps messaging him every day ... as someone else said, I can’t see Gary the 45 year old IT guy behaving the same way.

I guess the social thing does matter a little in that I have no point of reference to know what’s normal and so here I am...!

But it doesn’t mean I want to change that aspect about myself.

I hope the conversation with your partner went ok last night, OP

@Amrapaali

OP has said herself she is incredibly introverted and has no friendships outside of her marriage. That, to me, is not a healthy way to live

According to YOU.

OP has mentioned she and husband are happy with this level of social engagement. Why question it? And why use that as a mitigating factor in this scenario?

Because he's clearly not happy - is he? If he was happy, he wouldn't be having regular contact and friendships with others.

@sunflowersandbuttercups

But to continuously message someone 1 to 1 on non- working days suggests an exvessive interest in them.

Or it suggests a close friendship. Would you say it was an "excessive interest" if it was a male colleague he was texting instead?

And for your DP to be annoyed by you mentioning it suggests he very much enjoys it too.

Maybe he does, and why is that a problem? I would be extremely pissed off in his shoes. I'm good friends with many of my clients and speak to them on a social basis as well as a work one.

Life isn't so black and white as "work is work, home is home". Were humans, not robots, and the vast majority of us need more human interaction than what our partner and child can provide.

When you work with someone 40+ hours a week it's normal to become friends with them - and continuing that friendship outside of work is totally normal too.

It doesn't matter male or female. The op is not comfortable with the incessant chatter. It's her marriage and she's entitled to express her feelings.

Not everyone has overlapping lives.
We as a couple have clear boundaries, not everyone is hyper invested in their career identity. Especially when children come along. Or you know, we just like each others company or have other interests.
We both nudge each other when boundaries are impinged.

It doesn't matter male or female. The op is not comfortable with the incessant chatter. It's her marriage and she's entitled to express her feelings.

Of course. And she has done so.

Not everyone has overlapping lives.

No, but if one person did choose to maintain a friendship with a colleague, it would (to me) be very odd for the other person to control that friendship.

We as a couple have clear boundaries, not everyone is hyper invested in their career identity.

You don't need to be invested in your career identity to be friends with the people you work with, and to want to continue that friendship in your free time.

We both nudge each other when boundaries are impinged.

Boundaries are fine but I do think there comes a time where one persons "boundary" is another persons idea of controlling behaviour.

Maybe a friendship is intrusive when messaging from early morning to late at night.

Depends on priorities, the issue with free-time when married with children is much discussed and the cause of many conflicts.

Personally.
Mine are
Partner.
Children.
Work.
Hobbies/fitness.
Friends.

Maybe a friendship is intrusive when messaging from early morning to late at night.

But there's no indication that they talk all day long at the expense of everything else. OP just isn't happy because she happened to text early on a bank holiday morning and decided that it was intrusive.

A message by itself is not an intrusion. Nobody forces you to reply or to get into a conversation if you don't want to.