What is normal re contact with work colleagues outside of work?

[Chutneypearls]

This is really grating on me but I don’t know if my past is getting the better of me and I need some perspective. I am in my second marriage, been together 12 years or so now, 2 dc. I am older than dh by about 8 years. My ex dh cheated on me with an ex he’d reconnected with on Facebook and left me for her.

I literally have no idea what’s normal re boundaries with members of the opposite sex at work and what’s normal and acceptable re messaging anymore.

Dh and I have a great, normal, happy marriage. Nothing really to report. We’re very close, he doesn’t have any friends or social life outside of work and neither do I and that’s how it’s always been and we’ve always been happy with this (both of us quite introverted). He works close to home, spends all time at home, never works late or goes out apart from literally time he’s at work. Shares parenting equally etc etc.

He works in an office with mostly women. One of these women - someone in his team, not senior to him, or vice versa, same level- has become his friend and now they message each other a lot. He doesn’t hide his phone, I know all the passwords etc, he’s not sneaking out or doing anything dodgy, it’s just a lot of random shit chatty messages. And I don’t like it. But I don’t really feel I can say anything because it’s not a secret as such, and he mentions her and others at work, and it’s all just friendly... is this ok? Is this what others do with people they work with?

I’m trying to be okay about it but I don’t like the fact for example I’ve gone to move his phone this morning (usually make him a tea and put it next to his tea for him) and it’s flashed up with a message from her. I think if you’re messaging someone that early on a weekend it’s a bit weird - she’s mid 20s with a young child in a long term relationship herself. The message itself seems to be a sort of laugh at a meme type thing.

Anyway. Tell me what kind of contact you have with people you work with. If they’re men and you’re a woman do you message them outside of work about stuff? Do you think it’s okay for people to do that?

I haven’t said anything as I don’t want to be a controlling nag. But I’m sitting here feeling really weird about it.

@expectopelargonium

Strange place, MN.

There's not a cat in hell's chance that I would form a close friendship with a married male work colleague outside work hours. The occasional message about work or a particular shared interest or hobby maybe, but other than that, nope.

Totally crossing the line.

Much stranger that you've randomly decided married men are off-limits when it comes to friendships, imo.

What about married lesbians? Are they off limits too?

I'd be very uneasy with this.
She's become his friend, has she? Yeah right.
Sounds all very beginning-of-things.

And from this post, I then went onto this one:

In house separation hell www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4197237-In-house-separation-hell

Hm. All very sus.

If you yourself were a lesbian then there would be boundaries to be respected there, yes! Find the response to this idea really interesting. Surely when you're in an exclusive relationship of any kind, it's normal to acknowledge "the line" wherever it appears and try not only i) not to cross it, but also ii) not to give the impression that it's been crossed, or that you're open to crossing it, to your OH or anyone else?

Sorry am something of a MN novice and also afflicted with sausage fingers - my last was in response to @sunflowersandbuttercups last

I regularly text my male married work friends at random times and they do the same to me. In normal circumstances we go for drinks together too. I’m definitely not an edgelord 😀 it just seems normal to me.

@JoieDeLivres

If you yourself were a lesbian then there would be boundaries to be respected there, yes! Find the response to this idea really interesting. Surely when you're in an exclusive relationship of any kind, it's normal to acknowledge "the line" wherever it appears and try not only i) not to cross it, but also ii) not to give the impression that it's been crossed, or that you're open to crossing it, to your OH or anyone else?

The line, if you're in a monogamous relationship, is simply not cheating. Very easy not to cross.

Don't really care a jot about what impressions people get. In some conservative places of the world a woman merely eating lunch with a man "gives the wrong impression". It's a way of thinking that's historically functioned to keep women "in their place". And this thread is the perfect illustration of people getting bizarre impressions from normal behaviour.

She's become his friend, has she? Yeah right.
Sounds all very beginning-of-things

Rubbish. It doesn't necessarily follow. I've just spent the past half hour on WhatsApp with my neighbour from work. I'm off this week. He's had the week from hell & messaged me about it.

Hes a friend. Nothing more. He happens to be male but that's incidental. We aren't in the slightest attracted to each other and there's no way on earth it would ever be anything more. Platonic friendships can work

OP, just another perspective from someone who has a frequent messaging relationship and very nice friendship with a male colleague, now an ex-colleague — I only realised after I got to know him a bit better outside the workplace, and met his wife, that I was a very unusual thing in his life.

For me, it was the kind of normal collegial friendship I had with multiple other people with nothing to single it out—DH has exactly the same friendships with several of his workmates — but it turned out this guy was very introverted and had made no new friends since his university days (he was 50), so to his wife, who was used to him being completely without friends, I was a new and potentially threatening development.

I think there’s something similar going on here — this friendship is unusual in your household because neither you nor your husband have friends outside of work and are very introverted. In a more usual environment, her texts would not seem in any way unusual, because she would just be one of many friends he’s in frequent contact with.

I WhatsApp my colleague sometimes at a weekend, or he'll WhatsApp me but maybe once or twice a month at most? And usually if our kids have done something funny or ridiculous and it's related to a conversation we've had during the week. I wouldn't just send him mindless chit chat. I spend all week working with him, admittedly not in the flesh at the moment, if I constantly messaged him at the weekend as well I'd be talking to him more than DH.

I think I'm trying to say it's okay in low volumes / frequency. But I don't message my friends every weekend either so maybe I'm just too old for the modern world!

Ok... well I saw another message from her flash up just now and I couldn’t hold back as she’s clearly been messaging on and off all day. So I asked dh what she wanted, in a nosey but lighthearted sort of way. He said she’s moaning about a mutual work colleague- however this has been going on for several days now as he’s already told me about this. And the message this morning wasn’t anything to do with this. So I said “still?!” And got a bit funny about it and I basically told him the amount of messages etc was making me uncomfortable. He said he will delete the app they speak on. I now feel bad and am also not sure this will make any difference anyway as she can obviously message him elsewhere. He seemed annoyed with me for being funny about it. Fuck it. I just couldn’t stay silent.

We have been through so much together, very difficult times, and things related to health and death and family abuse that others would be horrified by so I need to be able to be myself about this.

I think we will talk more later when the kids are in bed.

I have wondered how all this would work in a same sex relationship.

I wouldn't say something's going on but I wouldn't say there's no potential for it either. I'm kind of in the middle with this.

Women frequently make the mistake of thinking men are 100% exactly the same as them. Therefore, you will hear a lot of women say things like 'Oh I have a male friend and it's totally platonic'.....yeah, it's platonic on their side, but it doesn't mean that it's totally platonic on their male friends' side too, and it doesn't mean you can apply the same thinking to alleviate other women's situation. You might feel like that with your male friend, but it doesn't mean this contact shouldn't be examined. So many women want to ignore the obvious potential for a relationship that exists between men & women, especially if they get along, especially if they're roughly the same age or the woman is younger. I think it's because we want to keep out male friends and think there's nothing more to it.

I have healthy boundaries with men in relationships and wouldn't be texting them the times his friend does. I wouldn't want it to cause an issue with their wife for one thing.

If you didn't have kids to look out for, I would encourage a slightly more relaxed perspective, as in, if he wants to cheat then he's already half way out of the relationship anyway and it's a sign it should end. If they want to go, then don't be sorry when the door closes behind them sort of thing. However, I can totally understand that as a parent, you will want to keep your family together not just your relationship. What you're doing now is a sort of risk management, in a way.

My hesitancy in saying 'Yeah everything's going to be fine' is because I've seen many women twist themselves into knots regarding these kinds of situations. They want to please, want to seem 'cool' and modern about everything, and no one wants to seem jealous, possessive, or make their partner feel uncomfortable. However, I have the feeling that this relaxed, lenient attitude does them no favors in the end. Their partner just finds it easier to hide what's really going on under the disguise of friendship.

I'm waiting to be proved wrong in everything I have said. I really want that actually!

keep our male friends

100% agree with everuthing @EarthSight has said. Why scoff at setting healthy boundaries? We interact differently with colleagues, friends, school run parents etc. I am still bemused with people sharing memes and jokes with colleagues on your personal phone/ social media. Teams/Slack is where we share all kinds of crap. DURING OFFICE HOURS

But actually whingeing to a co worker about another colleague at weekends and evenings is pretty toxic. And a different problem in itself. But honestly I don't think that is what your DH and this woman are talking about.

I am still bemused with people sharing memes and jokes with colleagues on your personal phone/ social media. confused Teams/Slack is where we share all kinds of crap. DURING OFFICE HOURS

But why can't you be friends with your colleagues and socialise with them outside of work as well?

@gannett I can't quote you now for some reason, but if by "cheating" you mean getting physical with someone then I disagree. You don't just go for a pint with a workmate and face a bolt-from-the-blue binary choice at the end of the night about whether to sleep with them or not. It has to start somewhere. All about signals, and texting a woman from work who isn't your wife all day on a Bank Holiday is a signal. He might not have meant it to be but 100% that's how it's being received at her end. So good for OP for bringing it up.

Also agree with @EarthSight that this is a different kettle of fish with different options re: how to handle it depending on whether or not there are children involved.

I work in a male dominated industry,

I was quite friendly with one guy we would share memes and random messages, I liked him because he's a rare chatty guy, I'm married and so is he, I 100% wouldn't touch him with a barge pole .

100% agree with everuthing @EarthSight has said. Why scoff at setting healthy boundaries?
Because, shock horror, many people consider workplace friendships fall within the realm of healthy boundaries.

Because some of us don't go through life accidentally stumbling into bed with friends.

Because some of us don't feel threatened or insecure about friendships.

Because some of us know that we are not responsible for someone else's insecurity. We know that there isn't some unspoken code where we should abstain from friendships or joking with married colleagues just in case their husband or wife is the type of controlling person. The responsibility for managing a spouse's insecurity lies with the husband/wife, not a friend.

Because we know that our friendly actions are entirely platonic and we are not in any way responsible for someone else if they develop non-platonic feelings.

And, most importantly, none of this involves being 'cool'.

I have a good friend at work, he is male, a lot younger than me and at a very different life stage but we just really get on together. Neither of us are remotely interested in anything more than friends but we message a lot, he makes me laugh or we chat about work but mostly just light hearted chat. Occasionally I’ll put a kiss at the end of my messages but only in the same way I do with my close female friends.

Also, wanted to add - you are both introverts. He walks close to home and doesn't go out and has no friends (as far as I'm aware). I do find it interesting that the one person he is in contact regularly like this, is a woman, and woman who's younger than him.....what a coincidence! We're all incredibly shocked :O

He needs to respect the fact that even if he has no feelings towards her, even if he does just want to have friendship, contacting her back this often outside work will potentially lead to something else with out him intending it. It might also lead the woman to think he's interested when he isn't, eventually anyway.

If he just wants someone to talk to, is there some kind of activity he can do at the moment, something online where he can speak to men his own age? He could probably do with the company and someone to shares his troubles with who's outside of his immediate circle. Maybe that what he needs - a good friend, but I think he looking for it in the wrong places at the moment.

I think it's a bit odd. It's intrusive to keep whatsapping all day.

@Cipot

I think it's a bit odd. It's intrusive to keep whatsapping all day.

Only if the OP’s husband finds it intrusive, surely?

And I can’t help feeling that in a less introverted couple, out of work messaging from a new friend would be completely unremarkable.

@LolaSmiles And that's entirely ok. If that's your relationship ideal or boundaries, that's fine, but the OP doesn't have to accept that for herself, particularly when there are children to think about and a family to keep together.

@NinthCircle It's the message equivalent of the phone ringing constantly, and every time it does, it's his female friend wanting to talk to him.

Even if that wasn't quite the issue, having Whatsapp pinging all day, having your partner constantly distracted or half in conversation with someone other people when they should be spending one-on-one, uninterrupted quality time with you is just rude and intrusive.

[quote EarthSight]@NinthCircle It's the message equivalent of the phone ringing constantly, and every time it does, it's his female friend wanting to talk to him.

Even if that wasn't quite the issue, having Whatsapp pinging all day, having your partner constantly distracted or half in conversation with someone other people when they should be spending one-on-one, uninterrupted quality time with you is just rude and intrusive.[/quote]
This is exactly how I feel.

I am feeling strangely liberated by saying something. I am old enough and been through enough to feel that if I can’t say how I feel, regardless of whatever others may or may not think, then where does that leave me really? I’m not okay with it and I need to voice that. I can tell dh is annoyed with me. We haven’t spoken about it yet but I can tell he’s pissed off. Well I am pissed off too. I feel like I’ve ruined the holiday weekend and shouldn’t have said anything but I’m very transparent and not good at hiding how I feel.