What is normal re contact with work colleagues outside of work?

[Chutneypearls]

This is really grating on me but I don’t know if my past is getting the better of me and I need some perspective. I am in my second marriage, been together 12 years or so now, 2 dc. I am older than dh by about 8 years. My ex dh cheated on me with an ex he’d reconnected with on Facebook and left me for her.

I literally have no idea what’s normal re boundaries with members of the opposite sex at work and what’s normal and acceptable re messaging anymore.

Dh and I have a great, normal, happy marriage. Nothing really to report. We’re very close, he doesn’t have any friends or social life outside of work and neither do I and that’s how it’s always been and we’ve always been happy with this (both of us quite introverted). He works close to home, spends all time at home, never works late or goes out apart from literally time he’s at work. Shares parenting equally etc etc.

He works in an office with mostly women. One of these women - someone in his team, not senior to him, or vice versa, same level- has become his friend and now they message each other a lot. He doesn’t hide his phone, I know all the passwords etc, he’s not sneaking out or doing anything dodgy, it’s just a lot of random shit chatty messages. And I don’t like it. But I don’t really feel I can say anything because it’s not a secret as such, and he mentions her and others at work, and it’s all just friendly... is this ok? Is this what others do with people they work with?

I’m trying to be okay about it but I don’t like the fact for example I’ve gone to move his phone this morning (usually make him a tea and put it next to his tea for him) and it’s flashed up with a message from her. I think if you’re messaging someone that early on a weekend it’s a bit weird - she’s mid 20s with a young child in a long term relationship herself. The message itself seems to be a sort of laugh at a meme type thing.

Anyway. Tell me what kind of contact you have with people you work with. If they’re men and you’re a woman do you message them outside of work about stuff? Do you think it’s okay for people to do that?

I haven’t said anything as I don’t want to be a controlling nag. But I’m sitting here feeling really weird about it.

@Chutneypearls

He doesn’t have a single clue I’m bothered about it. None whatsoever.

Maybe try having a chat with him and explain why you feel like you do. Sometimes men are a bit clueless about these things and don't see it being a problem until you point it out to them. How would he feel if you had a younger male friend that sent you lots of messages?

@TeachesOfPeaches

I would never ever contact a male married colleague out of work hours for a non- work reason, it's intrusive and disrespectful to the wife and their family time.

I find it strange that others think this is ok.

What does someone's relationship status have to do with whether it's "acceptable" to text them outside of work? Why can't people of the opposite sex just be friends and text when they fancy without it being considered strange or disrespectful?

Out of curiosity, would you also refuse to text a married female colleague out of work because it was "intrusive and disrespectful"?

Like PP have said there is no "normal contact" with work colleagues. Just depends on the office culture and whether you click with them.

Messaging memes is well on the side of casual banter and doesn't even necessarily mean it's even a real friendship. I've participated in some jokey messages with colleagues just to keep the social wheels turning.

I have no idea why messaging someone early on a weekend is weird. Having 10 minutes dead time to scroll through your phone is not something anyone timetables in. Why does it matter if it's at 8am on a bank holiday versus 4pm on a Tuesday.

@yuccaplant I’m not sure what he would think. He may feel the way I feel but he’s also very much of the we’ve been married years and years camp and probably wouldn’t bat much of an eyelid. I’m not sure. He was discussing something this morning and was talking of 5/6 years from now together doing something (vague I know, not child related) so he clearly sees his future with me.

I just feel a bit stuck because if I say something he’s likely to feel shit about it and then he will either say to her something about it or just reduce contact which will make things awkward for him at work - as their desks are next to each other. And then I will feel bad for saying anything.

Or ... another scenario... I say something and it is a bit weird and he hides the messages and still messages anyway. Where does that get me?

From experience I know that if someone wants to cheat, they will. And it’s my own trust issues that make this hard for me. Not trust issues with dh. My ex for example went down to stay with his Mum and while he was there he met up with his ex through Facebook and gradually just did that more and more and then upped and left me and dd then aged 5 in a period of 2 weeks, never to be heard from again. And that’s okay now because he was just a shit head. But it’s clearly made me wary in terms of how I feel about other people. Mainly because his ex could see from his active Facebook that he was married to me and we’d just got married etc!

Anyway, I’m rambling. It’s good to thrash it out on here and read replies thank you.

You have valid reasons to feel the way you do though. I've been in a similar situation in the past with a shithead ex and it's left me with major issues now that rear their ugly head and make me look like a fool. My now DP suffers because of it but I have always been open and honest with him about how I feel if I have needed to.

My DP messages a female work colleague a lot. Don't know what about as I've never asked.

I don't message work colleagues about anything but work (unless one of them is ill or I'm asking after a member of their family) but I do know that they all text outside of work lots. One male and female in particular who are on the same team message lots. There is nothing going on between them bit we work in a highly charged emotional environment so they offer each other emotional support.

I have male friends and text and msg but it’s a bank holiday and assume she has msg almost as soon as she woke up. He is first thing on her mind.

Doesnt it just depend...I have lots of male colleagues that I message all the time. But it's totally platonic. Plus in your partner's field - if it's all female then who else will he make friends with. Plus one of my DCs is still young so am regularly up at 6am so 8am is positively lunchtime. And with the lockdown plus small kids - I do feel a lot more socially isolated so do message friends a lot more often. In fact, Saturday mornings or like totally I was doing the rounds of getting in touch with my friends but did make sure not to whatsapp them too early even if I had been awake for agaes by that point.

But I totally get what you mean and would also feel a bit weird if DH was doing the same. However, thats completely irrational and is obviously double standards.

I work.closely with a male colleague. We get on brilliantly. We send each other memes, messages or links to work related stuff. There's nothing we send that he couldn't show his wife. We also have a message group with 2 other colleagues so it's him & 3 females. Again the messages are nothing he couldn't show his wife.

I'm friendly with a married, female colleague too. We message each other as well. Is it 'disrespectful' to her husband that I do??

I certainly wouldn't not text him because he's 'someone's husband' I think.of & treat them both the same.

I feel like this is wilfully missing the point - what is controversial about respecting boundaries with a married colleague outside of work hours? Things are different when you're in a relationship. No time for this edgelord "ppl of the opposite sex can just be friends man what's your problem chill" thought experiment. We don't live in a vacuum: look at the context. Age difference, same/opposite sex, content of texts, frequency of texts, timing of texts all utterly valid things to take into account and OP perfectly entitled to feel strange about this one in my view. No need to castigate and mock them for it especially when they're being so balanced and diplomatic!

I'd just talk to your DP gently about it, OP. Like someone else said earlier - his reaction will tell you a lot.

@Kinneddar what do you think your colleague's wife thinks every time your name pops up on his phone in the evenings and weekends when he is having family time?

He has spent all week with you.

*what is controversial about respecting boundaries with a married colleague outside of work hours? Things are different when you're in a relationship. No time for this edgelord "ppl of the opposite sex can just be friends man what's your problem chill" thought experiment.

It's not a thought experiment? It's how some of us live. Mixed-sex social and professional circles where a jokey meme on a Saturday morning is not deemed a threat to anyone's relationship. It's honestly baffling that anyone thinks like that.

*what do you think your colleague's wife thinks every time your name pops up on his phone in the evenings and weekends when he is having family time?

He has spent all week with you.*

Also bizarre and quite controlling to dictate that your partner can only contact certain people at certain times according to what you think is appropriate.

DP and myself get messages from friends, male and female, colleagues and otherwise, at entirely random times. People send messages according to their schedule, not yours! What do I think when their names pop up? "Oh that's nice, he's got a work friend." Or "say hi to X" if I know him/her.

@TeachesOfPeaches She doesn't bother in the slightest. We don't have long message chats it's just a couple of messages. And by the same token my other work colleagues husband doesn't bother either

I feel like this is wilfully missing the point - what is controversial about respecting boundaries with a married colleague outside of work hours? Things are different when you're in a relationship. No time for this edgelord "ppl of the opposite sex can just be friends man what's your problem chill" thought experiment
It's not a thought experiment. Many people in perfectly healthy relationships manage to have friendships with the opposite sex.

I can't recall a single situation with my good male friends where I've thought 'crikey, that was a close call, I nearly stumbled into bed with them'.
Unfortunately some people are very controlling and paranoid in relationships, and consequently micromanage their spouse's friendships in an unhealthy way.

Whatever people think, however they view platonic opposite sex friendships, it is getting in the way, OP is obviously bothered, and it needs sorting out or it will fester.

Mumsnet is replete with this stuff going bad.

I feel like this is wilfully missing the point - what is controversial about respecting boundaries with a married colleague outside of work hours?

It's not missing any kind of point. Why is texting at a time that's convenient to me (and that's often 8am as I have to get up and sort my animals out) not respecting boundaries? I don't understand what's so controversial about sending a text at 8am.

Things are different when you're in a relationship. No time for this edgelord "ppl of the opposite sex can just be friends man what's your problem chill" thought experiment.

What thought experiment? My relationship doesn't impact on my friendships, and vice versa. I have friends of both sexes, as does DH. Those friendships haven't changed just because we decided we wanted to be in a relationship together.

We don't live in a vacuum: look at the context. Age difference, same/opposite sex, content of texts, frequency of texts, timing of texts all utterly valid things to take into account and OP perfectly entitled to feel strange about this one in my view.

Of course OP is entitled to her feelings, but she posted asking what was normal and so people are giving their opinions. Age and sex make no difference to me in friendship - I'm friends with someone because of their personality, not their age or sex.

Again - timing - if texting someone at 8am is convenient to me then that's when I'll text them. They're under absolutely no obligation to reply and continue the conversation if they're busy or doing other things.

@LolaSmiles

I feel like this is wilfully missing the point - what is controversial about respecting boundaries with a married colleague outside of work hours? Things are different when you're in a relationship. No time for this edgelord "ppl of the opposite sex can just be friends man what's your problem chill" thought experiment It's not a thought experiment. Many people in perfectly healthy relationships manage to have friendships with the opposite sex.

I can't recall a single situation with my good male friends where I've thought 'crikey, that was a close call, I nearly stumbled into bed with them'.
Unfortunately some people are very controlling and paranoid in relationships, and consequently micromanage their spouse's friendships in an unhealthy way.

Absolutely agree it's possible (desirable even!) to be in a healthy heterosexual relationship and maintain friendships with people of the opposite sex; absolutely agree coercive control over contact with friends and family is a red flag for abuse.

What we're looking at here is a little more subtle, isn't it? When I say thought experiment I mean the rigid application of a perfectly reasonable, objective truth (it's ok for men to have female friends outside their relationship) to OP's problem (this particular man's friendship with this particular woman feels funny), without any attempt to adjust for nuance/intuition/something just not feeling right. A large part of being in a healthy and sustainable relationship is feeling able to put your hand up and say "I am a reasonable person but this smacks of bullsh*t" where required.

I would not be happy about this in the slightest.

Is she attractive?

JoieDeLivres
I see what you mean.
I can't help but feel that part of the problem is the sheer lack of friendships on either side. If you're used to your partner having no friends then anything is going to stand out

@sunflowersandbuttercups

I feel like this is wilfully missing the point - what is controversial about respecting boundaries with a married colleague outside of work hours?

It's not missing any kind of point. Why is texting at a time that's convenient to me (and that's often 8am as I have to get up and sort my animals out) not respecting boundaries? I don't understand what's so controversial about sending a text at 8am.

Things are different when you're in a relationship. No time for this edgelord "ppl of the opposite sex can just be friends man what's your problem chill" thought experiment.

What thought experiment? My relationship doesn't impact on my friendships, and vice versa. I have friends of both sexes, as does DH. Those friendships haven't changed just because we decided we wanted to be in a relationship together.

We don't live in a vacuum: look at the context. Age difference, same/opposite sex, content of texts, frequency of texts, timing of texts all utterly valid things to take into account and OP perfectly entitled to feel strange about this one in my view.

Of course OP is entitled to her feelings, but she posted asking what was normal and so people are giving their opinions. Age and sex make no difference to me in friendship - I'm friends with someone because of their personality, not their age or sex.

Again - timing - if texting someone at 8am is convenient to me then that's when I'll text them. They're under absolutely no obligation to reply and continue the conversation if they're busy or doing other things.

I suppose what I'm saying in response to OP's question is that maybe the focus shouldn't be on "what's normal" in a work friendship - since the breadth of experience and views in the thread shows there isn't really a normal - but on how they feel about that friendship; and that if they feel funny/uncomfortable about it they should trust that feeling and raise it with DH.

Strange place, MN.

There's not a cat in hell's chance that I would form a close friendship with a married male work colleague outside work hours. The occasional message about work or a particular shared interest or hobby maybe, but other than that, nope.

Totally crossing the line.

I regularly text my work colleague he is 22 years younger than me. He is just a friend

DH and I both have friends of the opposite Dec who are colleagues who we text outside of work. Granted the male colleagues I text outside of work is usually after we’ve been involved or are involved in work together or if we know one or the other is not having a great time at work, just a check in.

I am fortunate that the place I work is incredibly sociable and it’s encouraged, but also accepted if you’re not. For example, it’s likely when we return to the office the priority will be for social contact rather than work reasons. I’m also lucky that two of my very best friends are women who I met at my workplace and we’ve been friends for over 10 years, in contact more so out of work as we don’t really get time for the social stuff virtually at work. Would be different if we were in the office though, taking brew breaks etc.

Sex not Dec 🙄

I suppose what I'm saying in response to OP's question is that maybe the focus shouldn't be on "what's normal" in a work friendship - since the breadth of experience and views in the thread shows there isn't really a normal - but on how they feel about that friendship; and that if they feel funny/uncomfortable about it they should trust that feeling and raise it with DH.

Oh, absolutely she should feel comfortable raising it if she's uncomfortable. BUT, being uncomfortable with something doesn't mean that the "something" is wrong, either.

I know MN is a big fan of "listen to your gut" but your gut isn't always right. If someone had a "gut feeling" about a completely platonic, normal friendship of mine I really wouldn't be very happy, I have to say.