How do I stop irritating my 'd'h

[Namechange7625]

To sum it all up quickly..

Me and dh got married after 6 months of dating. In all other aspects he is the best person for me and we have a really lovely relationship. He's caring, thoughtful, loving and affectionate.

Dh told me on our 5th/6th date that he gets angry quickly especially when driving but its something he really doesn't like in himself and he has worked hard to not be like that. Just for context he does not threaten to hurt me/punch walls ect and I do not ever feel scared of him. I carried on seeing him and married him and he came across as very laid back in life, apart from when driving.

Now we've been married 3 months and he's not so laid back. Yesterday I irritated him by interrupting his phone call with a suggestion for the issue he was trying to solve. He told me after how much this annoyed him, I apologised and said its habit for me and I will try to not do it again but me and my friends jump in each others phone calls and so does my family, it can happen with work too when a colleague may know of more up to date info. We argued all day, his argument with me was that everyone knows its rude and I'm justifying it, my argument with him was how he went on at me 3 times about it, I finally bit back, he left the room and came back another 3 times to rant at me. I don't like being shouted at or belittled and I don't expect my husband to shout at me over anything really. I wasn't rude, I wasn't disrespectful, I felt blindsided in that we were having a conversation and bam he starts being horrible to me. I had also apologised but apparently it wasn't heartfelt enough...

This blindsiding keeps happening, I really don't understand how having a conversation with no raised voices or attitudes leads to this. He was really angry yesterday and said it was over and that we're not compatible. He then retracted that - but he's threatened to leave me before and after I explained how it made me feel he promised to not do it again. Obviously he just has and couldn't keep that promise. Imo people argue sometimes, it doesn't need to ever get to the level he took it too and if you can threaten to leave me over me interrupting a phone call, then where will you be when we've got a real issue.

I don't like being shouted at, called names or belittled. I also feel like I was fine single before and I'll be fine again but I would like to make my marriage work as apart from this we're really compatible. I feel disconnected from him now, he keeps trying to be nice to me but I feel hurt and not sure if I want to be with someone who gets angry with me when I don't even realising I'm doing anything wrong.

OP, you said you did a ton of counselling and the Freedom Programme. What did you learn there? What would you advise someone else to do in your situation?

It doesn't matter what the root of his behaviour is - maybe it is insecurity, trauma, ADHD whatever the list of reasons he has, rather than setting out to be an abusive arse - but this is the mistake countless people make in sympathising/empathising with their abusers:
Because you see, it really doesn't matter why the person does it, it is still abusive. Intention isn't magic. Just remember that.

Out. Out. Get him out.

Nobody on here thinks you are a troll with a script. The comment makes reference to the devastatingly sad similarity between your experience and too many others - which is why there is tons of very wise advice being given to you.

THIS IS NOT YOUR FAULT OP.

You were in foster care. You are not a sad case. Definitely, definitely not.
Can you hear that voice inside your head when he is arguing, berating, flicking you - that wee voice telling you this isn’t right? Listen to it! You have a gut instinct, boundaries and resilience- please act on it. It’s why you posted here and why you have a shit ton of voices all wanting you to get out.

Everybody saying he doesn’t do this to the giant man next to him in the street, in Asda (or wherever you shop) is spot on. So why does he do it to you? Because he can.

You both didn’t want to get married. Oops you did.
You both don’t want children..... heed the double contraception warnings please OP.

There are no medals for staying with this man and trying to change his behaviour.
You are giving him a couple of weeks. You have set your boundary. Likely it will kick off sooner rather than later OR he will be golden the next couple of weeks, then it will kick off and he can head fuck you more. I’ve tried to change haven’t I, but now look what you have done - irritating me again.

You are a success with choices.
He changed your choice to go travelling.
He changed your choice about getting married.
Your house, your life, your choice. Get him gone.

I've been on MN 7/8 years. Not a troll with a script.

I’m pretty sure that the script comment wasn’t suggesting you’re a troll, more pointing out that this is 100% like the account of an abusive relationship

Have you seen other threads that are like yours? They’re pretty frequent, sadly, but have you seen your life reflected in other threads?

Or did you allow the minimisation all victims do to self preserve and think “oh that’s way worse than my relationship”

That person would do the same, looking at horror with what you’re describing here.

This is now the single most dangerous part of your relationship with this man.

He knows you’re into him.

I would suggest going away for a while “to give him the space to work on himself”

But you make sure it’s permanent

Unless miraculously he changes for good, for a looong time before you trust him to be back under the same roof again

My guess is that you’ll enjoy breathing free air, your toes will relish not walking on broken glass the whole time

Please don’t stay in the hope he changes, you need to LEAVE for him to even consider it.

I also don’t think he’s clever enough to be covertly planning all this, he is just doing what is natural to him.

Gah!

He knows you’re ONTO him.

The script is him. He's following the abuser's script.

I would suggest going away for a while “to give him the space to work on himself”

It’s your house, he can go and stay elsewhere

Insist on this.

@category12 I didn't find the freedom programme helpful at all. I have had 2 lots of counselling since then so maybe would find it different now. From what I remember it was a story about a princess who decided she didn't want to kiss frogs and was happy to keep her own money and not have to do anyone else's washing. At the time when I did the programme all I desperately wanted was to be loved so it didn't really resonate with me.

I got to the point of being happy single after working really hard to get a first class degree, a professional job, and future plans that I wanted rather than someone else's future plans. Or plans that centred on a man/relationship. That's what led me to get married as I had always felt desperate to be loved so much and when I met DH I wasn't desperate, I was happy, secure and confident. He had been single a few years and it came across like he had done inner work on himself and bettered himself too.

I am not posting this for sympathy or to be told I'm not to blame. I have this voice in my head telling me I am the frustrating one. All my relationships follow this script and I leave because of DV. I must do something that frustrates men, I don't know how to have healthy relationships, and I think if I'm a person who always ends up making men so angry at me then there has to be something I'm doing wrong. I can't keep putting the blame back, I don't really know what I can do different though so if it continues we will split and I will stay single as I cannot put myself through being shouted at and abused again - whether that's my fault or not.

But you did the same thing, you chucked in your plans to marry the guy.

So on the surface, you weren't still desperate to be loved, but you still followed the same pattern of behaviour.

Are you aware of the shark cage analogy? www.oomm.live/the-shark-cage-metaphor-spotting-potential-abusers/

Oh lovely, I am so sorry you are still putting this on yourself. The only thing you did was to fall for someone who. I'm very sorry to say, probably saw you coming.

It really doesn't matter whether it was a conscious or an unconscious process. The result as you see is the same.

Give yourself some time to heal

Next time you are in a position where you are open to a relationship, enjoy that lovely feeling of getting to know someone. Be aware of asking open questions rather than blurting out all you want do they can just mirror you saying 'that's exactly what I want '

Have a look at that freedom program again. It might just resonate with you.

Sadly one of the markers for people who end up in Abu dive relationships is that they don't think it's going to happen to them.

Be very aware of your boundaries. Do not allow them to collapse to please someone. In fact, try saying no occasionally on trivial things just to see what happens.

Do you wonder why I know. I've been through exactly this process and finally learned to be really careful about who to strike up a relationship with. Like you, it took me a few gods but I got there in the end and you will too. All the best

Its not bloody insecurity! Ffs I can practically predict what he'll say next. Next it will be that you aren't emotionally there for him. Then it will be 'I'll get help but it doesn't happen overnight, I need you to support me more and be understanding.'

He is literally following the abusive man script.

It may also be illuminating for you to read Lundy Bancroft's 'Why does he do that?'

You sound an intelligent woman and, not to dismiss it, the Freedom Programme is brilliant, but it written in very simplistic language to enable the widest number of women to be able to understand the priciples and access the information - often at a time when their heads are shot and they need stuff spelling out clearly.

Here is a link to the different abusive 'styles' described by Lundy - he worked for a great number of years with perps, so really understood how they function. It may not be that the behaviour is 'deliberate' or 'intentional' - its deeply ingrained in many men, so just their natural instinct to act the way =- this is why you will have trouble getting them to understand its wrong, because they really dont believe they are.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/2268977-The-Abuser-Profiles

someone telling you that you are too sensitive, is something to.worry about..Someone going on at you over something small is something to worry about. He sounds frightening to me and I think you should get out. He may try to adapt his behaviour to appease you, but gradually he will wear you down.

“It doesn't matter what the root of his behaviour is - maybe it is insecurity, trauma, ADHD whatever the list of reasons he has, rather than setting out to be an abusive arse - but this is the mistake countless people make in sympathising/empathising with their abusers:
Because you see, it really doesn't matter why the person does it, it is still abusive. Intention isn't magic. Just remember that.”

This, OP. Looking at why someone is behaving badly risks excusing bad behaviour. And often there is no clear answer. You had a very difficult start in life but you don’t go around flicking him on the arm. The key questions are what is he doing? and how do you feel about it?

Keep safe, OP. Keep posting here for support. Double up on contraception.

“someone telling you that you are too sensitive, is something to.worry about..Someone going on at you over something small is something to worry about. He sounds frightening to me and I think you should get out. He may try to adapt his behaviour to appease you, but gradually he will wear you down.”

This, too. And of course, someone flicking you on the arm to prove a point is something to worry about. You really don’t know this man. You don’t know what he’s capable of. You don’t know anything about his exes. But with his strange comments about you making him sound like an abuser and you sounding like a DV victim, you can be pretty sure he’s been accused of this before.

At least for now, please just make sure you don’t get pregnant.

I had this with an ex, telling me I was too sensitive and that he could change for me, but that my reaction to him blowing up at me about nothing would have been like water off a a ducks back to his ex. This made me feel like I was being over sensitive, but I knew it wasn't OK. I talked to friends who helped me to see that this was a slippery slope I was on, and that it certainly wasn't normal. He was a manipulative, scary man who made me feel like his reactions were my fault. I got out quick and have zero regrets about leaving. Such a relief in fact, to stop questioning myself and to realise the problem lay with him.

I said earlier I’m not sure every move every abuser does is fully calculated- but they still learn what you will put up with and work within that - mainly it doesn’t change the outcome - if he’s not been calculating then it is just who he is - his happiness is paramount and others only feature in his life to help achieve that happiness - when they don’t, or are slightly irritating then he’s angry as they’re not following his required script - possibly he can’t even see that in himself, or as wrong at all, but sure as anything you are not going to change that about him.
Don’t blame yourself for the DV - victim blaming at its most depressing - I’m sure he’s irritated you at times - do you go on and on and flick him with the tea towel? I guess not as it’s more than unreasonable. Even if he stops that then the endless grinding down of you as a person verbally till you’re totally subsumed by him and his wants is really not healthy. Its him that’s unreasonably aggressive and violent about a minor issue. It’s possible you have a type, and that type are also more domineering, I like confidence in a guy and the chat, but it doesn’t serve me well finding a partner to be honest - not that I’m fussed about one any more. Perhaps he also has a type and recognised an accommodating partner - I’m sure he didn’t want to have this debate about himself and his behaviour, he thinks he’s been reasonable and just can’t understand why you don’t know and look after his preferences like you seemed to do when dating. He clearly sees the way to resolve issues as lecturing you like a child and punishing you like a child, or worse really. Is this what you want - learning from the master? There’s a lifetime of study ahead and sometimes he’ll throw in stuff you can’t possibly learn, such as a shop assistant being a bit off, but you’ll have to take the backlash as someone certainly wouldn’t let him berate and flick the shop assistant in store. If it’s unreasonable to do to average Joe walking down the road then it’s unreasonable to do in the home generally.
Please remember you and who you are and who you want to be.

You got married way too soon, ignoring ‘red flags’ and sounds like you married a frog

When you’ve been through difficult situations as a child, mistreated etc, you have a vulnerability, a hole.

Abusers see that hole and it draws them like a beacon.

When you’ve had an abusive relationship, what is normal to you in relationships is the abuser approach.

Full on, high speed, future faking, all perfect

So if you meet a non abuser, it feels odd

The freedom programme isn’t the magic bullet we all wish it was, but it can help you spot some signs.

I think where you are is that you did such a great job of picking yourself up and putting on a smile, papering over the cracks perhaps, that you didn’t fill the hole.

I saw on here once how a dv counsellor walking into a mixed waiting room can spot her patients and so knows that those who would target them can see them as clear as day too and know who to pick.

So do what you gotta do (now) end this marriage ASAP, get him gone - tell him whatever it takes to get him out of the house and keep it that way.

Then fight tooth and nail to keep him out

He will never, ever change.

Ever. Read Lundy Bancroft and know this is certain.

Then find a counsellor to work right into those cracks

I know you can do it. Once it’s done, it’s an insurance policy for you to never have this happen to you again.

You’re an amazing woman. You really truly are. What you say here, it shines through

Never ever give up on you.

I was you. I’m now out and living the very best life. I can’t tell you how things have changed for me.

I am content. I am safe, I am loved and valued.

My oh is a powerful man, but one who adores me and listens to me and values my opinion. He never devalues anything I do. He encourages me and is proud of everything I do.

I want all this and more for you. It’s achievable. Hang in there, but you have to do your part to clear the way.

I just went and read back through my own posting history and looking back I can see the way he was escalating in increments and your DH is doing the same. He ramps it up just a tiny bit at a time whole simultaneously drawing your attention elsewhere so you don't notice.

Please just reread your own posts and you will see it too.

And I know how sad it is to give up hope on someone

But this is your life here. Your life is at risk from this man and men like him.

All this language he’s been using, ‘you treat me as if I’m an abuser,’ ‘you’re acting like a DV victim,’ ‘you act like I’m a monster,’ this is all quite specific language, as if he’s come across it before. You know why OP, because he has. He is using this language very deliberately OP, to shut you down in thinking this stuff before you think it. Words like ‘DV victim’ and ‘abuser’ don’t just fall out of ther air into a mans’ vocabulary, most men wouldn’t really know to use those words. No, this language has been put there in the past, about him.

OP, please listen to all these things he’s telling you. There is a book called ‘The Gift Of Fear’ by Gavin De Becker, and in it he describes all the indicators that are present before somebody does something. Basically he has created an entire career studying the signs that lead up to acts of violence etc, and your H is giving you plenty. He is literally telling you everything he thinks about your relationship, he’s using words like DV victim and monster, without provocation from you. OP he is litterally telling you who he is and what is going to happen. OP reading this thread is like watching a train crash in slow motion. We can see it, he has told you it’s going to happen, yet you’re still standing in the way waiting to see if he’s serious or not.

OP, he is serious, this train crash is going to happen, he’s told you very very clearly what he is and what you will be if you keep him around. Mark my words my love, if you don’t get rid of this abuser you’re going to look back on this thread and you’re going to feel devastated. You’re going to feel angry with yourself and god knows what else, because even now you know what’s coming down the pipeline with him, and you’re just refusing to act. Please do act OP. He is very clearly telling you who he is and what you will be, god he’s even using the right terminology, so believe him.

And do that Clare’s law check. I mentioned it waaay back up thread and other PPs have said it too. Ring 101, when he’s not around, obviously, and ask them to do the check. Why would you even not?

As PP have said: it’s not about you turning decent men into abusers. That is absolutely impossible. It’s that your shark cage isn’t sufficiently well-developed to keep you safe from abusers. Your completely understandable desperation to be loved makes you very vulnerable to tolerating behaviour that less vulnerable people would walk away from. It made you marry this guy on an impulse.

You might find it helpful to read In The Mind Of The Intimate Male Abuser: How He Gets Into Her Head. Men with abusive tendencies target women who are naturally very kind and giving and naturally inclined to put other people’s needs before their own.

But you’re right that if you keep finding yourself in abusive relationships, then there is something around your choices in men that needs to be addressed. And it’s great to know that. That gives you power because you can control your choices.

@Elieza

He sounds like my ex. Who is bipolar. Lovely person most of the time, kind, thoughtful. But could change in a heartbeat to a complete arsehole - a nasty, shouty bastard. It was always someonelses fault he was like that apparently. Not his.

He got medication from the gp and was a changed man within a month. The anger and hatred that could flare up for no normal reason was gone. He was much nicer. More balanced. Happier.

Sorry, but I have to take massive issue with this. I have bipolar disorder and find nonsense and misconceptions like this do so much harm. It’s true that when in highly-manic episodes some people can become irritable & argumentative, but they’d also be exhibiting all manner of other signs of severe mania/distress and these episodes tend to last weeks/months and require serious medicalisation and/or hospitalisation. This is NOT to be confused with someone acting like an arsehole occasionally. PLEASE don’t conflate the two and further the stigma that those of us with a serious psychological condition have to face on a daily basis.

Oh, and btw: your ex can’t have just popped to the GP and got a few meds to cure him. That’s not how it works. GP’s can’t diagnose nor prescribe for Bipolar disorder- that has to be done in secondary care MH services and is a long and ongoing process. Don’t make it sound so simplistic.

@Namechange7625 I know that you’ve had a lot of advice and that you are probably feeling a bit overwhelmed but I want you to ask yourself, is he really incapable of managing his anger? Does he lose his temper like this with everyone else or just you? Does he lose it at work? With men? If his temper was this much of an issue, surely it would have caused him issues at work? If he can hold his temper with other people why does he choose not to with you? You are his wife, he should be nicer to you than he is to colleagues.

He won't change. People often take the path of least resistance. He could put some solid work into improving his behaviour but he won't because it's easier for him to trample all over you to make himself feel better. Anger management might make it seem like he's making changes but it won't change his sense of entitlement, so maybe he doesn't rage at you but you will still have to suffer in someway. He will feel like you've deprived him of something and that can't go unpunished.

Even if he comes back having 'changed' he'll fall back into old habits because he knows you'll take it and it's less effort for him. It's who he is. There is no love strong enough to change this, there is no special individual which will make this all go away.

I made the mistake of thinking the abuse was ok because I could see it was all a reaction to him feeling inadequate and hurt. He started making changes in his life, making friends, losing weight etc but it only made him worse. He would try and stamp me down further so he could feel even better about himself and his anger got worse. He tried to force feed me so I would 'fatten up' to make his weight loss even more an achievement in comparison. There is no 'together' in these relationships, it's you Vs him and he must win at all costs.