How do I stop irritating my 'd'h

[Namechange7625]

To sum it all up quickly..

Me and dh got married after 6 months of dating. In all other aspects he is the best person for me and we have a really lovely relationship. He's caring, thoughtful, loving and affectionate.

Dh told me on our 5th/6th date that he gets angry quickly especially when driving but its something he really doesn't like in himself and he has worked hard to not be like that. Just for context he does not threaten to hurt me/punch walls ect and I do not ever feel scared of him. I carried on seeing him and married him and he came across as very laid back in life, apart from when driving.

Now we've been married 3 months and he's not so laid back. Yesterday I irritated him by interrupting his phone call with a suggestion for the issue he was trying to solve. He told me after how much this annoyed him, I apologised and said its habit for me and I will try to not do it again but me and my friends jump in each others phone calls and so does my family, it can happen with work too when a colleague may know of more up to date info. We argued all day, his argument with me was that everyone knows its rude and I'm justifying it, my argument with him was how he went on at me 3 times about it, I finally bit back, he left the room and came back another 3 times to rant at me. I don't like being shouted at or belittled and I don't expect my husband to shout at me over anything really. I wasn't rude, I wasn't disrespectful, I felt blindsided in that we were having a conversation and bam he starts being horrible to me. I had also apologised but apparently it wasn't heartfelt enough...

This blindsiding keeps happening, I really don't understand how having a conversation with no raised voices or attitudes leads to this. He was really angry yesterday and said it was over and that we're not compatible. He then retracted that - but he's threatened to leave me before and after I explained how it made me feel he promised to not do it again. Obviously he just has and couldn't keep that promise. Imo people argue sometimes, it doesn't need to ever get to the level he took it too and if you can threaten to leave me over me interrupting a phone call, then where will you be when we've got a real issue.

I don't like being shouted at, called names or belittled. I also feel like I was fine single before and I'll be fine again but I would like to make my marriage work as apart from this we're really compatible. I feel disconnected from him now, he keeps trying to be nice to me but I feel hurt and not sure if I want to be with someone who gets angry with me when I don't even realising I'm doing anything wrong.

I'm another for whom the flicking means he's crossed a line and will likely escalate unless you get out. His minimising of it is not a good sign. Good luck Op. You deserve so much better and I sincerely hope you get out and find yourself in a decent relationship with a decent man where there is no physical or emotional abuse.

OP, there are so many red flags here. The stuff about him saying you are on another planet and talking over you saying the same thing over and over is exactly what my ex did. He gaslighted me into believing I was irrational and illogical and plain mad. I tried and tried to do what he wanted but he would just keep moving the goalposts so it was never enough. I finally realised it was all abuse and control. It was nothing to do with me or my behaviour. By the end I would just sit in the bedroom all day and night on my own and only talk to him when he asked me something directly, and he STILL found stuff to be angry about.

Honestly, just get out. Life is too short. By the end I truly believed I was this horrible, annoying, stupid person with nothing interesting to say who deserved to be treated like dirt. Is that what you want?

And BTW OP, I am objectively none of those things he made me feel. I have a degree and a Master's from top universities, a good career, a successful side project, and have achieved so many things, from travelling the world on my own to a major career change after 30. It's as if he purposely wanted to tear me down and make me feel small.

Honestly, just get out. Life is too short. By the end I truly believed I was this horrible, annoying, stupid person with nothing interesting to say who deserved to be treated like dirt. Is that what you want

Abusers rely on their victims' willingness to blame themselves, and to take on board any criticism offered. If you turn this around on them ('You're annoying and stupid', 'No I'm not, but you're entitled to think of me that way. Why do you want to be in a relationship with someone you find annoying and stupid?') they're lost.

It's not a good plan to actually have that conversation, by the way. But it is a good idea to accept that they have that opinion of you, and inwardly not agree with them. And also not to hang around with people who cultivate relationships with people they dislike so much. It's not a respectable trait.

next he will start pushing past you and accidentally knocking you into the door frame, or the like. be careful

This is making me think of Rob from the archers. Forgotten his last name.

Oh absolutely Eckhart. The irony is that people who are good, intelligent, thoughtful, empathetic people are the perfect victims for abusers, because we are willing to accept that we have faults and to work on them. And it's always so insidious at the beginning. With my ex, it started with very small things which were true, and so it seemed very reasonable of him to think I should improve them (for example, tendency to be negative or anxious) to be a better person.

But then it turns into more and more things you need to 'fix', and suddenly you're not allowed to tell him anything negative about himself, and his previous willingness to have conversations and productive discussions has turned into stonewalling and trying to defend yourself against constantly being told how awful you are is 'being aggressive' and getting angry or upset at being insulted every day is 'being emotional' or 'being crazy'. And you truly believe that it is all your fault, and if only you had been nicer or less stressed or calmer, none of this would be happening and it would all be nice again like it was at the beginning. It's so grim.

Rob Titchener

Flicking is assault ...
www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/man-who-flicked-ex-partner-19213976

@Rozziie, abusers target accomplished strong clever women and enjoy trying to take them down.

@Fireflygal yep it seems like that...I don't understand why they do it, or if it's even a conscious thing?

When I first met my ex, he acted like he was blown away by how independent and accomplished I was. He sent me a gushing text while I was away on a trip telling me how amazing I was for going so far on my own, how most people including himself would never have the confidence to do it, etc. etc. Within 3 months he was calling me dependent and needy for trying to make plans with him, and 8 months in he was making me feel ridiculous for wanting to go on my main summer holiday with him and not on my own (!)

Just...why?

You made a mistake. You thought you were a woman who could make good healthy relationship decisions but you're not.

@Clymene OP can start now. Someone can turn that around at any times but they have to strategies to screen out wrong'uns, and stick to them.

I can see it's his low self confidence/anxiety which goes off like anger in him

@Namechange7625 Stop making these false excuses for him. A lot of us have low self confidence/anxiety but we don't act like this- quite the opposite.

'I can see that he is an abuser who thinks he owns me and I should serve him, and that's why he kicks off if I don't act exactly how he wants at all times.'

I have bipolar and this is not how people with bipolar act BTW. Maybe when they're in an episode (which usually last several weeks/months) but not in general. That would be down to other issues.

He could go to his GP and describe how he's acting (how likely is that? ) and they could treat him for it. But I don't recommend staying with him, he's a body with a giant red flag for a head.

I want out now. He doesn't see that he shouldn't talk to me and treat me the way he does. He said I didnt flick you more then 10 times. I feel like if I am wet (ie too sensitive) then why are you with me anyway.

@Namechange7625 I'm glad you're seeing through him. Keep trying to see through the trance. 'I didn't flick you more than 10 times' doesn't make it ok. That'd be like 'I only hit you once.' Nah. You're not being oversensitive- he can think or claim to think whatever he wants but what matters is what you think, which is just as valid as what he might think, and more important for you as this is your life, safety, and comfort.

@Rozziie

One of the key moments for me in getting over it was in realising that I didn't even want to understand the abusive behaviour. It takes one to know one. I'm more than happy for it to forever inexplicable to me. It makes sense to an abuser's mind, but not mine.

When I say they can treat him for it (if he genuinely described his behaviour towards you) they could try but not much works to stop abusers being abusive. And they don't tend to stick to a perpetrator proogramme, because they don't usually think they're doing anything wrong.

It’s great that you want out, OP. The scales have fallen from your eyes. As you say, he sees nothing wrong in how he treats you. He treats you like shit but tells you it’s your fault you feel bad about it. He’s really sounding faintly monstrous.

How can we help you break free? And what support do you have in real life?

He needs to leave but you can’t safely have that conversation on your own with him. As PP have said, the way he brings up domestic violence again in that strange way strongly suggests that he’s been accused of it before. Whether or not that’s the case, he’s doing it now. The flicking will be just the start if he stays.

Do you have a relative or friend who can come and stay with you and help keep you safe while you extract yourself from this relationship and get rid of him from your flat. This is a domestic abuse situation so COVID rules don’t apply.

He's saying I'm turning round what he was saying yesterday and this is why he gets so frustrated with me

This is him practising DARVO

"Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender."

I'm going on like a dv victim

Well... if the cap fits! (Him not you)

Flicking, pinching, "playful" slaps (that may not even physically hurt at first), "accidental" shoves etc are often the beginning of dv, it's a gradual breaking of the boundaries and your bodily autonomy I've even seen and read things like overly firm hand holding (my dad would do this when in public and he couldn't shout at or otherwise abuse the family member "disobeying" and "embarrassing" him. My ex did it as a reassuring thing before he knew of my history with this and was horrified when I told him. He comes from a very gentle, loving family)

Not all dv results in a bruise, often these bastards are very very careful to leave no evidence - especially if they have a history of being like this.

You say he's in his late 30's, I'd bet good money you are far from his first victim.

How has he described his previous partners/girlfriends?

To be honest op, with your own history I think as soon as you knew he came from a home where there was dv and there was even the HINT of aggression from him you should have ended it. Yes we can say hindsight is perfect vision but that would have been 2 major red flags.

I suspect you know what things are red flags, I suspect the problem is you tend to err greatly towards ignoring them - that's what you need to work on.

But for now the priority is to get him gone as safely for you as possible. Don't react in knee jerk fashion as that could put you at risk. Speak to women's aid and take their advice.

Kindly meant, but it seems clear to me you aren't best placed to make such plans yourself.

I hope you can get an annulment but I think it is unlikely as it doesn't seem to meet any of the conditions unless not consummated which you haven't mentioned (and needn't).

So you may well be looking at having to wait another 3 months and getting divorced.

With such a short marriage he is unlikely to have claim to any assets but you should check with a lawyer.

As I say seek advice.

As to why? Because they consider themselves to be weak, insignificant, powerless people at heart and seek to feel strong, important and powerful by tearing down another.

@Eckhart I'm kind of the same but want to make absolutely sure I don't ever fall for it again, because unfortunately last time wasn't the first time. I've met a few of these types.

Hi OP, know from personal experience that you will end up being the one with low self esteem and be gaslighted to the point where you think you are always in the wrong. Then you won't have the strength to leave. You are already blaming yourself. Get out whilst your confidence and self worth is intact and you are strong enough in yourself mentally and psychologically to leave. These msgs on mumsnet are from people who've been there or can read the situation clearly. You've been given a lot of wise advice. Please take it..

It's interesting that he says you talk like he's an abuser, and that you're acting like a DV victim. I think he's trying to manipulate you into thinking that neither of these can be true.

He is saying that you're exaggerating and overreacting to even consider his behaviour abusive.

This is him trying to minimise his behaviour and make you feel paranoid. He is telling you his behaviour is acceptable/understandable. We are telling you it's not.

but apparently it wasn't heartfelt enough...

You said something during a phone call, you didn't destroy his family heirlooms or sleep with his best friend.

Leave now, flicking will escalate to punching, I've been there.

[quote Rozziie]@Eckhart I'm kind of the same but want to make absolutely sure I don't ever fall for it again, because unfortunately last time wasn't the first time. I've met a few of these types.[/quote]
Did you recognise any red flags, retrospectively? For me, that's the key to making sure it doesn't happen again. I call it the 'red flag feeling', now. It's not what they do, it's that niggling feeling when you know something's wrong or off. You have to over ride it over and over to get to the stage where you're in a regularly abusive relationship.

It's not about understanding why they do what they do; it's about understanding what to do about what you feel.

Have you been on Mumsnet long? Your posts read like a script.

You are in an abusive relationship.

No abusive relationship is like that 100% of the time.

He flicked you hard repeatedly - that's the start of physical abuse.

You need to read every single thing people have written and absorb it.

You need him to leave YOUR HOME, TODAY.

He will not get help. He will not go to the GP and if you ask about it, he'll accuse you of "going on about it" and no doubt minimise it.

Wow, the flicking thing... that’s horrible. I’m trying to visualise a situation where I’d be ok with a partner flicking me on the arm during a row and I can’t. I’ve also tried to imagine any of my ex partners or my current actually doing it and I can’t.

Would you follow him round poking, flicking or pinching him whilst you argue??? If it’s not ok for you to do it to him it’s not ok the other way round. Normal people wouldn’t need telling that this is not ok. He is obviously not good relationship material just on this one point alone without all the rest of the evidence (the moods, the shouting, the gaslighting). You need to leave.

Thank you everyone for posting advice.

Dh now feels like he's not marriage material - although sarcastically calling himself a monster (I think he's saying that for me to deny). I am not denying it. He has no idea on how to move forward, I really don't think he's calculated, although he's pushing it back to me ect I can see he feels guilty and bad about his behaviour. He is going to get counselling, I'm going to give him a couple of weeks to see if he does it, if he doesn't I'm leaving. I'm also leaving if he ever speaks to me the way he did or flicks me again. I get everything about it not being acceptable and the red flags, I agree but I know he's insecure in some ways rather then cruel and if he gets help for working through his anger everything will be OK.

I've been on MN 7/8 years. Not a troll with a script.

He needs to learn to accept that he's not always right even when he thinks he is, that there can legitimately be two points of view about things, and that being disagreed with really isn't the end of the world. These are things that most people learn as children. If he's not prepared to be mature about human relationships, he may be better off without one.