What a mess. Just a really, really rubbish situation

[AnonymousMamaof2]

Ok, so I need to do some scene setting first.

DH and I met whilst working in Birmingham (we just worked there, no family connections whatsoever to the place). We had our child there but always knew we didn't want to raise a family in the city. Shortly after DC1 we made the decision to leave and move to the area where I grew up (which is nowhere near where my DH is from and he has zero connections here). He was driving the move more than I was, saying it would be a nicer area to bring up kids (which it is, it's amazing: rural, beautiful, near very supportive grandparents who look after the kids 3x a week etc).

I had been doing well in my career and I am the main breadwinner. However that means I work away for 2 days a week (incl 1 night). My parents insist they help us and have the grandchildren 2.5x days a week. It's mainly because they literally DOTE on the grandchildren, I have never seen anything like it. They are almost obsessed. But likewise the bond my kids have with them is also very special. Admittedly we could just put the kids in creche a bit more, but (a) my folks would be hurt (they would move heaven and earth to have the kids) and (b) what's the point of living where we are, if we're not using the support network which was one of the plusses of moving up here. Plus I quite like the bond my kids have with my folks.

So that's me and the kids.

DH worked (in Birmingham) in a very city based role, he can only do that work for a corporate city firm. That kind of work is nowhere to be seen where we live now. So, before we moved, after several discussions with my folks, he moved to working with my Mum in her business, which is completely different to anything he's ever done. Not even the skills in his previous city role would have been transferrable, other than perhaps (very loosely) people management. So it's very different to anything he's ever done but he was super keen to get involved.

Mum has grown the business from nothing and it's thriving. She lives and breathes it and has been running it now for nearly 40 years. The original idea was that she would then take a step back and he would take a step up (i.e. the future). She kept saying that the business needed new blood. But it reeeeally hasn't worked out like that.

I can see failings on both sides. She is very abrupt and almost aggressive in the way she deals with people. She's super efficient, operates at 110mph, nothing gets left undone. She's just constantly firing on all cylinders. That said, she can be very scatty and makes mistakes. There are very few processes. V little stored electronically. She operates heavily by bits of paper here n there. No idea how to use spreadsheets etc. All v old school. But clearly it has worked for her because the business is really successful.

DH on the other hand is the total opposite. Calmer, slower, not so engaged with the staff (she's the type that would send any of her staff a generous new baby gift if they had new babies, would know their kids' names etc when she has 70+ staff to manage... he is (well) a stereotypical man and just wouldn't be interested). Her personal touch with staff is what she's really known for. She will roll her sleeves up and get in the thick of it (and is v respected for that), he would probably delegate more.

So they have very different styles. Truth be told, if anything were to happen to Mum tomorrow and he had to step up and take over, I'd have been slightly worried at him running the show (and that's after nearly 4 years of being in the business!).

Now don't get me wrong, there was never any need for them to take him in, we know that. But we didn't quite think it would go as it has. In hindsight I think a lot of it is that (a) she's a VERY had task master, hard to please; and (b) no-one will ever run your own business like yourself so, despite his different management style, he has always (now, in hindsight) been on a bit of a hiding to nothing.

Anyway, the relationship with Mum has become absolutely horrendous over the past 18 months since she has started to pick him up for things he's missing. She says that she's meant to be taking a step back and is paying him to take over her role, yet in reality she's (apparently) working more than ever, until midnight every night to keep things running as she likes it. DH says that there must be a completely different side to the business that she runs that they don't let him in on. Looking at this from afar (and knowing both characters), DH operates very much on a "list" basis. If he has 10 things on his list then that's all he thinks he has on. In reality he probably just doesn't think that far outside the box as to what Mum could be doing at night. On the other hand, I think Mum can be v anal so....

Aaaanyway she called him in a few weeks ago. Basically told him the business is being "restructured". DH would not be doing his current role and they had "created" a new role in another part of the business for him, completely unrelated to what he's been doing - and learning - for the past 4 years. He sees it as them sacking him and creating a made up role for him simply because he's their son in law and because they want us to stay living nearby so they can see the grandchildren. I tend to agree with that, but I also do think he'd be quite well suited to this new role (which I don't think is entirely a "fake" role because it's stuff that needs doing and relates to the future growth of the company, so probably more his bag).

Anyway, after they told him about these new "restructuring" plans, they told him to take a month away from "them" and from the business (!). He has been at home feeling totally lost, upset, hurt. I expected he'd accept that new role and make it work (he admits himself it sounds exciting) but he's decided (and I kinda agree) because of the sheer stress of working for family and he just wants out. He says they've pulled the rug from beneath his feet with his initial role so could do it again, and he's not getting any younger. He is also sick of constantly having to defend himself and how he operates. It's exhausting and I get it.

He has told Mum & Dad that he won't be accepting the new role and they didn't argue back. They said they'd always support him in whatever way they could, but in reality I think they are just relieved that he's out of their hair.

The question is what now. For him. For our family.

We live in a rural area. There are NO roles here which is anything like his previous city based role. He would need to travel at least 1h15 mins each way to the nearest city, and even then it's a small-ish hub that would have satellite corporate offices, not mainstream HQs etc.

He says he's been out of that corporate world now for 4 years so he'll struggle to get anything at the level he previously was at, especially where we're based. Otherwise, there is NADA going. It's demoralising. He's so bright, successful, had a glimmering career in London, and now he's on the floor and doesn't know what to do with himself.

One option (which is heart wants to do) is for us, as a family, to sell up and move to Edinburgh (where he's from) where there would be heaps of jobs (for him), better paid, he'd be close to his family and friends etc. But not for me. It's a different jurisdiction so wouldn't work for my career. As I say, I already spend 1 night 2 days away each week which I could (in paper) still do but it would entail me flying down to work each week. I just don't want to do that. I have young kids. I don't want that stress. Me leaving my job and getting something else up in Edinburgh is also not an option because I've been there for 16 years, I have a good rep there and I'm the main breadwinner. Not that this should be a reason not to move, but it would also kill my parents who live for the grandchildren every week.

We feel a bit lost. He fully supports me not leaving my role. He knows me leaving isn't an option and he keeps saying that. But it's a terrible situation because:

• where we live now works for me, doesn't work for him job wise. He'd have to make do with anything, which would make him feel even more worthless than he does now (he is at rock bottom)
• if we go to Edinburgh, it works perfectly for him, but not for me.
• we don't want to move back to Birmingham, we've done that. We don't want to go back to a city where we have no family connections, we'd just be living there for work. Life is too short.

There are no answers. Just wanted to vent, and I guess any generic thoughts on the situation...

The behaviour of the MIL is irrelevant. She might well be a massive cah. OP might do well to put her at arms length. But if that is the case, did the DH not realise that she was evil personified in the four years she was paying his wages? Why is he the helpless victim? Or is he only the victim when he realises, oops, I am not going to magically inherit a profitable business ..?

@IfNot

The behaviour of the MIL is irrelevant. She might well be a massive cah. OP might do well to put her at arms length. But if that is the case, did the DH not realise that she was evil personified in the four years she was paying his wages? Why is he the helpless victim? Or is he only the victim when he realises, oops, I am not going to magically inherit a profitable business ..?

Spoken like a person who has never worked with family.

Spoken like a person who has never worked with family.
Well, you don't know that (and it's also not true), but he wasn't forced was he??

He gave up his career for a move that suited you.

Maybe now it’s his turn to get back to his career?

You mentioned jurisdiction, do I assume your job is based in the legal system? Have you looked in to whether there is anything you can change your skills to? Like you expected him to with the last move?

@MintyMabel

He gave up his career for a move that suited you.

Maybe now it’s his turn to get back to his career?

You mentioned jurisdiction, do I assume your job is based in the legal system? Have you looked in to whether there is anything you can change your skills to? Like you expected him to with the last move?

No he didn’t, it was him that pushed for this, not the op. He wanted to give up his last job. Apparently hastened by some medical problem that stops him sitting at a desk for long.

He gave up nothing for the op.

I don’t think it matters whose idea it was or if he was willing. They tried this and it’s not working out now for their family as of now.

Healthy people don’t make family decisions based on “well, it was your idea!”

How much closer could you move to a suitable city but feel you're close enough to your parents? If it was 45 mins to them perhaps you could drop the children to them one evening and they could look after the children the next day. My in laws are teachers so take ours quite often now youngest is nearly 4 during hold but don't do regular care.

OP’s husband weirdly made me think of another thread, where the OP is divorcing her husband, who is referred to as Geller. He is also a corporate dude, yet unable to master some very basic stuff, including printing out things. I have often come across guys who climbed the corporate ladder but who haven’t actually got great skill sets in real life. They just coasted along in a large corporate setting where their lack of common sense, ability to really run a business hands-on and people skills were masked due to a great team behind them, with them often taking credit for the group effort. Although OP wants to be loyal to her DH, even she knows and admits that he sucked at the job. I am sure it’s not all black and white but OP herself is somewhat annoying in her failure to accept any blame herself for having everything on her terms. OK, this is often taken for granted with the sexes reversed but trying to shift the blame on the parents is rather disingenuous.

@Bluntness100

It does sound like he’s got that syndrome. You know where they think they are awesome, entitled, a star, fully believe it of themselves but actually are a bit shit.

I don't agree with your interpretation of events as presented throughout your posts, but that's the purpose of this thread, for OP to get different views, so that's fine.

I really don't like how you make a harsh judgment of someone's DH, on the relationship board when OP has posted looking for advice. The quote above is just nasty.

You don't know this to be true. Sure, you might feel you can deduce it from what OP has shared, and I get it's an opinion. But I think it's unfair & likely to hurt OP.

@AnonymousMamaof2 I hope you're doing ok.

You don't know this to be true

We don’t know anything to be true on these boards, other than it’s human nature to present a story your way. In any problematic situation, it’s good to look at it from several perspectives. The DH doesn’t come off well no matter how you look at it.

It sounds like you are far too wrapped up with your parents' needs and wishes. Despite moving for support, you have an hour's journey for childcare which you are only doing for them. (Your children can always see GP and cousins at weekends and holidays, like many, many other children do). In your position I would also be very wary of my children spending lots of time without me, with people who were openly critical of their father.

Really it seems that your dh has no option but to move so that he gets a job in something he is qualified in. You need to decide whether you want to move with him or not. Personally I would research the Edinburgh move further. He is right that he can't take the new job your mum has created. It's not a stable or happy situation for him, to work for her. He's tried it for four years and it hasn't worked. I think it's time to look properly into different options/ places to live. You might actually find life a lot more peaceful with some proper distance between you and your parents.

@OllyBJolly

You don't know this to be true

We don’t know anything to be true on these boards, other than it’s human nature to present a story your way. In any problematic situation, it’s good to look at it from several perspectives. The DH doesn’t come off well no matter how you look at it.

I don't agree that DH doesn't come off well.

My point is that each poster can make their observations without being nasty or overly judgemental. I thought Bluntness comment was horrible.

It's the Internet, and just because we don't 'know' something, doesn't mean we have to be offensive.

She would be mad to give up her job to move to Edinburgh.

I'm afraid it's some poster's 'style'

@AnonymousMamaof2 My goodness - you all need a breather. Your DH needs careers advice/coach and a fresh start, doing something he enjoys. Some retraining. You both need to look at a refreshing new chapter, for all of you. A bit of emotional and professional distance from your mother.
I don't think you can make firm plans until DH has a new direction laid out.
But as you say, you mustn't go backwards, but re-evaluate what you both want and perhaps both take a direction change that supports your family life.

Loads of perspectives here but I think your DH is probably well out of the family business, I think from both sides its best she sticks to proffessionaly driven recruitment and staff. Impressed this setup lasted as long as it did tbh - just because of the setup (i kind of had an inner wince as soon as I read he was woking in your mum's business, before i got to any info about how it had unravelled)

But really only came on to add that if you are both in involving busy work roles in future, as your dc grow older you and they will have far more options in a less rural location, ie one where there are schoolfriends, school, parties, sports clubs, shops, etc etc etc in easy walking/bike/ bus distance. Dh and i have always wfh flexibily, but i can tell you rural childrearing gets to be a right pain in that respect, helpful grandparents ((10 yrs on of course) or no. Their social lives will not be timetabled around granny days, mum not on her overnight days, or whatever, I can safely predict!.

I still think OP should only move IF it's what works for her, and the kids. Of course going into the family business was daft, but I can't quite see why it took four years to realise this! On both sides, I think OP should put some real boundaries between her and her parents, including not having them as her main childcare, but I also think that the husband needs to own his own mistakes, and accept that there has most likely been fault on both sides.
I also find it very very hard to beleive that right now there are no remote working opportunities, or mainly remote even?
True, it's not great for teens in the countryside, and maybe down the line they would be better in a town, but that is a decision to be made carefully, with planning, if they decide in the future, NOT because DH has fallen out with his former employers and wants to run away.
Bluntness's assessment of him might be unfair (and characteristically acerbic) but even thru the eyes of a loyal wife he does not come off as a guy you want to trust the big decisions of life to...

I've read all your post and I think your mother sounds incredibly controlling, it's not a support network when it's all done on their terms. I'd be finding a nursery, moving to a house where your husband could find a job and going low contact. Your relationship with your husband and both of your with the children is far more important than and bond with their grandparents, especially when they are controlling people. I think your husband needs to be creative in his job hunt. Does he need to be full-time? Would working at home some of the week support his heath condition?

@MakeItRain

It sounds like you are far too wrapped up with your parents' needs and wishes. Despite moving for support, you have an hour's journey for childcare which you are only doing for them. (Your children can always see GP and cousins at weekends and holidays, like many, many other children do). In your position I would also be very wary of my children spending lots of time without me, with people who were openly critical of their father.

Really it seems that your dh has no option but to move so that he gets a job in something he is qualified in. You need to decide whether you want to move with him or not. Personally I would research the Edinburgh move further. He is right that he can't take the new job your mum has created. It's not a stable or happy situation for him, to work for her. He's tried it for four years and it hasn't worked. I think it's time to look properly into different options/ places to live. You might actually find life a lot more peaceful with some proper distance between you and your parents.

Agree with this.

Perhaps your husband should move alone, at least to work his way back into employment.

Also the point that your kids won't have many options rurally is huge. You were imprudent to leave city in the first place and things are getting worse with time.

Also the point that your kids won't have many options rurally is huge. You were imprudent to leave city in the first place and things are getting worse with time

Hundreds of thousands of children lead perfectly happy lives in rural settings. Birmingham or beautiful rural setting? I know which I’d choose for my kids.

I would definitely cut ties with the family business. Then maybe look into retraining for your dh to do something more local. Teaching, accounting, health for example. There are options. If he has corporate experience, do a few accountancy modules AAT or ACCA and apply for local council? Where I am they promote really regularly. You can be working at accountant level in a few years. They take older people for apprenticeships all the time.

Your DM sounds manipulative.

I have now, on and off over the past day or so and between the chaos of two toddlers, been able to read the full thread. Some tough love indeed but I am always up for saying it how it is, some brutal responses but I genuinely appreciate them all. Thanks.

Don't have the time atm to sit down and answer each individual question (I would be here all day but I will try and go back through tonight after the kids have gone down if I can...). A v short response for now:

• I get the reasoning behind a move to a completely new location to essentially start afresh but this is not something that even my DH wants. We live at the moment 45 mins away from my DP so there is already a fair distance there. We only see my DP if it was something we'd arranged, i.e for kids drop offs etc, or obviously my DH at work. We're too far to just bump in to each other. The only drawback of where we are is job opportunities in "city" roles. We're also not "rural" as in surrounded by fields, sorry that was a bit of a misleading term I used. We're in a small town. Can walk to shops, the beach, train station etc. 7 mins drive from an amazing school (where my kids are already enrolled). A very nice, middle class area with good transport links and connections for the kids. We're not in a field! 🤣 I meant rural as in totally different from the big city, but appreciate that was the wrong phrase.

Anyway. Despite everything that's happened, DH (and I) have zero appetite whatsoever for all the upheaval and stress that a move to a random location would bring with two young kids (one about to start school in Sept, and has been enrolled for some time). We also only moved into our "new" home two years ago as we took a fair bit of time to find the right thing, feels like we've only been in the house 2 minutes.

In my DH eyes, a move away would really only be Edinburgh. I think I agree with that being the only place we'd "want" to go to. But I do agree with some of the posts here that I'd be probably jumping from the frying pan into the fire with my very gossipy, judgmental MIL.

My job: At the risk of a total attack from the "put your husband first" posters, my DH (above everyone) would be the first person to say I should not leave my role. There is not a chance I would give that up, now of all times (the job market, my DH's position, our reliance on my salary etc). I also love it, something my DH never did with his old role. My DH champions this more than anyone. I am continually reassuring my DH that he can take as long as he wants out of work, there is no pressure. It would be tough financially, but I've said I would I work day and night to make sure we are financially ok.

We are comfortable financially but not plush. The air B and B idea would not be without a c.200k mortgage! We have enough savings for 1 year of no working but that would be praying that nothing else needs spending on in that year, like a broken down boiler, new car etc.

DH work ethic: A lot of unfair assumptions on this but I'm going to say it as it is. In his corporate role (he wasn't a lawyer), I think he got paid a lot for not doing a huge amount. His area was very niche, he was one of very few who knew how to do something very specific. He was physically in the office (after an hour's commute) by 7:15am until 6:30pm each day, so the days weren't exactly short but whilst there I know he wasn't flat out in the true sense of the word. He would have time to Google and research literally all sorts. In comparison, my day job is bloody intense. I feel like I don't breathe and am frazzled by the end of the day. Always at least an 11 hour day which feels like 2 hours because I cram so much in. I often work until the early hours, weekends. I do.not.stop. Available on email 24/7. I get that work ethic from my DP, many people say that. So whilst I do think there was less room for my DH to hide with my DM, and my DH was certainly busier and would "work" all day, I don't think he was literally flat out and feeling knackered by the time he left each day (which I think is how my DM operates, whether that is right or wrong). I do realise that my DH gets tired very easily. The sad thing though is that he genuinely really enjoyed the role with DM and he found it interesting, as well as feeling a bit desperate he's also just hurt because he would still happily do it.

New role wise, he doesn't seem to study etc for a new position, e.g. accountancy etc. I accept that and I don't think I'd want to go back to study middle aged either.

His corporate role in Bham were begging him to stay when he left. They weren't kicking him our the door. They even offered for him to continue his role remotely when he resigned. He was the one that thought there was more "future" in our family business and so refused anything with his old boss. He (we) were also VERY ready to leave a city, we'd been there 14 years and wanted a quieter life in terms of living location (ie not city). We still do.

He also never really felt fulfilled in his previous role, nor did he love it. He refused to talk to me about it at night. Something I'm constantly reminding him of now as he looks for similar roles to that which he previously had, but his response is that it was decent money (much more than he got from my DM, which was 50% less than his old, city salary) and it's "what he knows". I have suggested he speak to his old firm about going back there but he feels embarrassed, particularly as some of his friends there pulled his leg about working with his MIL before he left. So he doesn't want to go back cap in hand. I get that.

Medical issue: Not going to go into this in detail but it's not fake. It is something that, if he were to fix, would entail a 2 day operation of 10 hours each time. It's serious, it's not just a slipped disc. The operation itself would only have a 40% success rate to fully fix him. We've had 4x medical opinions on this. He is willing to try a desk based job again, but I really think he's forgotten the pain it used to bring him- even with a standing desk (which he had in his old role). This was part of the draw about working for my DM as he was on his feet, moving about a lot more and coincidentally his medical issue has been "manageable" for these 4 years, something which wasn't the case in a city job and he'd be flat out all weekend trying to recover himself before Monday. When I remind him of this now he says "well what choice do I have!?"

Career coach: This is the frustrating bit. I raised this with DH yesterday where he flatly rejected. He's very black and white in the way he sees anything in life. I said that it would give him an objective view, alternative ideas that he (we) wouldn't have considered, like the governance/compliance role someone mentioned on here which I thought was a good idea. He said there wasn't a chance he'd start speaking to one, says he knows his options..... I raised it again today and he was a bit softer about it but still doesn't think necessary. I disagree and think he should consider, I will work on this. But his flat rejection isn't an ideal attitude.

Vague plan: I think it seems (to us at this stage) that the most sensible medium term step would be to:

• stay where we are living for now. DH to try for roles preferably in the city which is 1.5 hours away, or worst case in a London or Edinburgh based firm and he would need to commute once a week with an overnight stay, doing the rest remotely. I feel we really need to try this first before up sticks to somewhere else again.

• GET MORE CHILDCARE. I am willing to let DP still do 1.5 days a week (not in any way because I need them to do it, because I feel like an evil cow depriving them of seeing the children on a regular basis, especially as my eldest starts school in sept so from then on they'd have even less contact with eldest DC). Having extra childcare, a nanny or just wrap around, will free us up the 2x days I am away. I feel my DP have been very unreasonable in terms of what's happened with my DH but I (and my DH) know they wouldn't bad mouth my DH in front of them. I can guarantee that.

• Worst case, if the above medium term plan doesn't work, I think we need to look at moving to Edinburgh. Would need to be based somewhere far enough away from my MIL so that she can't just pop in. Me having to fly to my job 1x a week. The flying thing really wouldn't be ideal because I'd miss two nights with the kids 💔 (atm it's just one because I get back for bath time on the second night, I'd be later if flying); it would be 3x the cost (current train fare is £40 weekly, a flight would be more towards £200). We are comfortable financially atm because I'm so thrifty with money- off peak trains etc, doing it all on a shoe string. Also it wouldn't be an efficient use of time as I currently get a solid block of work for 2h15 before I get to the office, so work are happy with the arrangement. Not something I'd really have with flying, 40 min flight: a fragmented journey of car/plane/train etc. But I'd have to do it if all else failed, given everything DH will have tried by that point.

My PIL live in a stunning area and have enough room in their back garden for a plot for a new house to be built. That would be my DH dream but I can guarantee that living in my PIL back garden would be the beginning of the end for me.

The other final thing that's probably relevant is that when my DM initially had a chat about their "restructuring" with my DH, they agreed that he'd retain 2 days of his existing role and do 3 days in the "new" role. He was on the whole happy with that. The following week when it came to explaining in detail what the new job would entail, every single duty under his existing role was removed. So he was kicked out. He was surplus to requirement in his current duties. Had she stuck to that 3day/2day hybrid role I don't think we'd be in this position now... albeit it was possibly inevitable given the family business and I think the general feeling in all of this is that he's better off out of that for good. 🥴 It's clear DM just didn't want him involved in the staff/management part of the business whatsoever.

I should also add (cue a few mouths dropping to the floor at this point) that my sister (so a blood relative) has previously tried working in the fam business for a few years and it didn't work out with her either, she ended up going back to her old role. This happened during the 4 years my DH was there (it wasn't like we saw it all unravel with her before my DH started). Otherwise, the two other siblings of our family (my brother and I) have always stayed away from it as we have professional roles. I paint my DP in a terrible light - they are hugely respected in the area and have built their firm up from having nothing, living in a council house. They've dealt with this situation very well (imo) but they're not bad people and they'll be hurting right now. When I last saw DM she looked haggered and had lost loads of weight (she was already thin!). I know it's affecting them too, but clearly they're not on their arses like we (more my DH) are now. Saying this doesn't mean I am in the FOG, I am just looking at it how others in the locality would. My DH also still says this about them.

Have I missed anything fundamental?!

I think the career coach would a massive positive for you husband @AnonymousMamaof2. There will be options neither of you has considered, especially with the changes to working practices we have seen in the last year. It sounds clear to me he can't go back to long days at a desk.

Your attitude seems to be very much I'm in charge. Even if you're of the view that you have a right to be because you see the bigger picture and earn more money, it's still coercive.

Your DP is absolutely right when he said he hasn't got much choice and has to do something. I'm not sure what you want him to do but he clearly wants to return to the role he had before.

I will reread all your posts again later but key points:

DH to avoid surgery at all costs, the risks are huge.

DH to prioritise work/career that will help him manage his condition and actually maintain being primary parent especially as they start school.

DH needs to get with the career coach idea because it's always easier for someone external & specialist to see how skills are transferable.

Could his old work be done part time & remotely? He could go back to old firm and say due to health reasons part time work is what would now suit him???

His self esteem is tied up in all of this (understandable) and some good therapy would be invaluable in him finding the best way forward.