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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What a mess. Just a really, really rubbish situation

434 replies

AnonymousMamaof2 · 26/03/2021 21:12

Ok, so I need to do some scene setting first.

DH and I met whilst working in Birmingham (we just worked there, no family connections whatsoever to the place). We had our child there but always knew we didn't want to raise a family in the city. Shortly after DC1 we made the decision to leave and move to the area where I grew up (which is nowhere near where my DH is from and he has zero connections here). He was driving the move more than I was, saying it would be a nicer area to bring up kids (which it is, it's amazing: rural, beautiful, near very supportive grandparents who look after the kids 3x a week etc).

I had been doing well in my career and I am the main breadwinner. However that means I work away for 2 days a week (incl 1 night). My parents insist they help us and have the grandchildren 2.5x days a week. It's mainly because they literally DOTE on the grandchildren, I have never seen anything like it. They are almost obsessed. But likewise the bond my kids have with them is also very special. Admittedly we could just put the kids in creche a bit more, but (a) my folks would be hurt (they would move heaven and earth to have the kids) and (b) what's the point of living where we are, if we're not using the support network which was one of the plusses of moving up here. Plus I quite like the bond my kids have with my folks.

So that's me and the kids.

DH worked (in Birmingham) in a very city based role, he can only do that work for a corporate city firm. That kind of work is nowhere to be seen where we live now. So, before we moved, after several discussions with my folks, he moved to working with my Mum in her business, which is completely different to anything he's ever done. Not even the skills in his previous city role would have been transferrable, other than perhaps (very loosely) people management. So it's very different to anything he's ever done but he was super keen to get involved.

Mum has grown the business from nothing and it's thriving. She lives and breathes it and has been running it now for nearly 40 years. The original idea was that she would then take a step back and he would take a step up (i.e. the future). She kept saying that the business needed new blood. But it reeeeally hasn't worked out like that.

I can see failings on both sides. She is very abrupt and almost aggressive in the way she deals with people. She's super efficient, operates at 110mph, nothing gets left undone. She's just constantly firing on all cylinders. That said, she can be very scatty and makes mistakes. There are very few processes. V little stored electronically. She operates heavily by bits of paper here n there. No idea how to use spreadsheets etc. All v old school. But clearly it has worked for her because the business is really successful.

DH on the other hand is the total opposite. Calmer, slower, not so engaged with the staff (she's the type that would send any of her staff a generous new baby gift if they had new babies, would know their kids' names etc when she has 70+ staff to manage... he is (well) a stereotypical man and just wouldn't be interested). Her personal touch with staff is what she's really known for. She will roll her sleeves up and get in the thick of it (and is v respected for that), he would probably delegate more.

So they have very different styles. Truth be told, if anything were to happen to Mum tomorrow and he had to step up and take over, I'd have been slightly worried at him running the show (and that's after nearly 4 years of being in the business!).

Now don't get me wrong, there was never any need for them to take him in, we know that. But we didn't quite think it would go as it has. In hindsight I think a lot of it is that (a) she's a VERY had task master, hard to please; and (b) no-one will ever run your own business like yourself so, despite his different management style, he has always (now, in hindsight) been on a bit of a hiding to nothing.

Anyway, the relationship with Mum has become absolutely horrendous over the past 18 months since she has started to pick him up for things he's missing. She says that she's meant to be taking a step back and is paying him to take over her role, yet in reality she's (apparently) working more than ever, until midnight every night to keep things running as she likes it. DH says that there must be a completely different side to the business that she runs that they don't let him in on. Looking at this from afar (and knowing both characters), DH operates very much on a "list" basis. If he has 10 things on his list then that's all he thinks he has on. In reality he probably just doesn't think that far outside the box as to what Mum could be doing at night. On the other hand, I think Mum can be v anal so....

Aaaanyway she called him in a few weeks ago. Basically told him the business is being "restructured". DH would not be doing his current role and they had "created" a new role in another part of the business for him, completely unrelated to what he's been doing - and learning - for the past 4 years. He sees it as them sacking him and creating a made up role for him simply because he's their son in law and because they want us to stay living nearby so they can see the grandchildren. I tend to agree with that, but I also do think he'd be quite well suited to this new role (which I don't think is entirely a "fake" role because it's stuff that needs doing and relates to the future growth of the company, so probably more his bag).

Anyway, after they told him about these new "restructuring" plans, they told him to take a month away from "them" and from the business (!). He has been at home feeling totally lost, upset, hurt. I expected he'd accept that new role and make it work (he admits himself it sounds exciting) but he's decided (and I kinda agree) because of the sheer stress of working for family and he just wants out. He says they've pulled the rug from beneath his feet with his initial role so could do it again, and he's not getting any younger. He is also sick of constantly having to defend himself and how he operates. It's exhausting and I get it.

He has told Mum & Dad that he won't be accepting the new role and they didn't argue back. They said they'd always support him in whatever way they could, but in reality I think they are just relieved that he's out of their hair.

The question is what now. For him. For our family.

We live in a rural area. There are NO roles here which is anything like his previous city based role. He would need to travel at least 1h15 mins each way to the nearest city, and even then it's a small-ish hub that would have satellite corporate offices, not mainstream HQs etc.

He says he's been out of that corporate world now for 4 years so he'll struggle to get anything at the level he previously was at, especially where we're based. Otherwise, there is NADA going. It's demoralising. He's so bright, successful, had a glimmering career in London, and now he's on the floor and doesn't know what to do with himself.

One option (which is heart wants to do) is for us, as a family, to sell up and move to Edinburgh (where he's from) where there would be heaps of jobs (for him), better paid, he'd be close to his family and friends etc. But not for me. It's a different jurisdiction so wouldn't work for my career. As I say, I already spend 1 night 2 days away each week which I could (in paper) still do but it would entail me flying down to work each week. I just don't want to do that. I have young kids. I don't want that stress. Me leaving my job and getting something else up in Edinburgh is also not an option because I've been there for 16 years, I have a good rep there and I'm the main breadwinner. Not that this should be a reason not to move, but it would also kill my parents who live for the grandchildren every week.

We feel a bit lost. He fully supports me not leaving my role. He knows me leaving isn't an option and he keeps saying that. But it's a terrible situation because:

  • where we live now works for me, doesn't work for him job wise. He'd have to make do with anything, which would make him feel even more worthless than he does now (he is at rock bottom)
  • if we go to Edinburgh, it works perfectly for him, but not for me.
  • we don't want to move back to Birmingham, we've done that. We don't want to go back to a city where we have no family connections, we'd just be living there for work. Life is too short.

There are no answers. Just wanted to vent, and I guess any generic thoughts on the situation...

OP posts:
Franklyfrost · 27/03/2021 13:50

Your mother has provided childcare and employment so now you’re indebted to her which had made you realise that having a very close extended family isn’t compatible with being independent. So, leave the area, make an effort to visit when you can and cut the apron strings.

mcmooberry · 27/03/2021 14:00

I think your parents could have handled the restructuring much better and have effectively humiliated him by doing it this way. If they had done him the courtesy of involving him in the decision, especially if he was more suited to the new role, then the situation could have been saved. However, it sounds like your parents don't care. Is there a possibility that your husband is a bit lazy and was underperforming to a larger degree than you were aware of? Did they feel he was harming the business by staying in the current role?
I don't blame him for wanting to move.

ConquestEmpireHungerPlague · 27/03/2021 14:02

Ouch, some tough love on this thread since I posted yesterday. Hope you're OK reading it, @AnonymousMamaof2.

As with so many threads on MN, an unbridgeable fault line has opened up between those who have experienced toxic and manipulative family relations and those who just can't see it.

I'm not going to comment further just to ram my own view home some more, but I just wanted to say I hope you manage to find a way through it OP, as it sounds really unhappy for all concerned.

Flowers
MitheringSunday · 27/03/2021 14:09

@GrettaGreen

I definitely don't think your parents sound terrible and your husband some hard done by saint. By your own admission your parents gave him a job and despite 4 years in it, he can't manage it. 4 years?? And if you're nowhere near the business and recognise he hasn't been fully up to scratch in reality he must be a disaster. Instead of giving him the heave ho, they've put up with it for years and then eventually created a bespoke role for him whilst raising your kids for you almost half of the time. And this is on top of you landing round to their house and basically saying I'm here in secret because DH doesn't really like you and doesn't want you seeing the kids unless we're benefitting! He can't manage a standard commute, he can't manage a desk job, he can't look after his kids 2 evenings a week when you're not there- he can't do anything unless it's put on a list in front of him by the sounds of it! I think you also need to recognise you're behaviour here too in that your visit to their house was essentially shit stirring. How on earth they can bear him following that and everything else is beyond me. I've read the full thread and am honestly astounded by the perspective of the majority of posters about this.
I do tend to agree with most of this. The '3 weeks staycation without seeing the parents' thing rang a bit of an alarm bell for me. A week, fine. 3 weeks, making some kind of point. And that you, OP, didn't feel able to say 'oh, don't be ridiculous, I'll pop over once or twice' is quite telling too. Calling your fairly run-of-the-mill (AIUI) argument over this a 'domestic' also suggests something's awry in your communication.
GuessHowMuchI · 27/03/2021 14:15

Move to somewhere beautiful on the fast Edinburgh train line? Eg Berwick? Northumberland?

Definitely get away from your mother and support your DH.

Inthevirtualwaitingroom · 27/03/2021 14:22

or he can eat humble pie and take the job offer,
problem over

IfNot · 27/03/2021 14:22

So...what happens when the whole family upsticks again (and again at DH's wish) and he can't hold down the next job? Or even find a next job that ticks all his boxes? Do they move again?
He's an adult. He doesn't have to work in the family business. He didn't have to to start with! In this day and age someone well qualified and competent can find a job where they can WFH 3 days a week, and suck up the commute the other two. He just doesn't sound like someone who can own his decisions, sorry. And that's aside from any wrongdoing on the part of the MIL. In fact I think the MIL is sort of irrelevant. He has made his own choices.

Inthevirtualwaitingroom · 27/03/2021 14:24

take a month away, similar to his suggestion they take 3 weeks away?!

Fafferly · 27/03/2021 14:41

@AnonymousMamaof2

In answer to all the "why don't you just move X" questions...DH and I have talked about this. We kind of jointly think it makes no sense because why move away from a "support" network here, where (despite the situation) my parents are available to help w the kids, the cousins for my kids are here, my friends etc. If we go to somewhere random then it's just us on our own, no network, no family, and that's why we left Bham in the first place.

PiL don't know what's going on. They live in Edinburgh. DH too proud to tell them it's failed. Plus his mum (my MIL) is a bit of a busy body so we limit generally anything we tell her.

My dad sticks by mum 100% and also fuels her because he also is involved in the biz.

It's not a support network! It's actually the antithesis of that. Your mother seems controlling and I feel for your husband. Your children would be better off with good mental health in their parents than being controlled by the inheritance that your mother has so kindly dangled over you, thus making it harder. Speak to a counsellor before making any decisions, as I think a neutral person will help you see things more clearly. There is a lot of FOG here - fear, obligation and guilt.
Alsohuman · 27/03/2021 14:55

Definitely get away from your mother and support your DH

Yup, give up your job as the main breadwinner, move away and support your useless bloke. Then who’s going to feed your kids and put a roof over their heads?

IloveJKRowling · 27/03/2021 15:09

I think it would be crazy to up sticks without a job or even with one that isn't permanent.

You say you have reasonable finances (the idea of buying a buy to let). Could your DH look for jobs - if he finds one he likes and is offered it, maybe rent a room so that he can work there and stay overnight some nights and then if he sticks at the job / gets past probation, then you can consider moving? This would require you to find some good childcare solution that doesn't involve your parents, of course. But that shouldn't be entirely impossible. Some jobs might be happy with a 50% WFH 50% in the office split that would make this easier.

Honestly, I think until your DH has found and is offered a job anywhere else, even thinking about moving is madness. He can apply for jobs anywhere from where you are now.

IloveJKRowling · 27/03/2021 15:10

Meanwhile there is nothing to stop you limiting or even stopping interaction with your family where you are now.

BronwenFrideswide · 27/03/2021 15:11

@Alsohuman

Definitely get away from your mother and support your DH

Yup, give up your job as the main breadwinner, move away and support your useless bloke. Then who’s going to feed your kids and put a roof over their heads?

There is no need for the OP to give up her job, there must be somewhere North, South, East or West of where the OP's job is that would work for them whilst putting some distance between Op's family.
Fafferly · 27/03/2021 15:25

@IfNot

So...what happens when the whole family upsticks again (and again at DH's wish) and he can't hold down the next job? Or even find a next job that ticks all his boxes? Do they move again? He's an adult. He doesn't have to work in the family business. He didn't have to to start with! In this day and age someone well qualified and competent can find a job where they can WFH 3 days a week, and suck up the commute the other two. He just doesn't sound like someone who can own his decisions, sorry. And that's aside from any wrongdoing on the part of the MIL. In fact I think the MIL is sort of irrelevant. He has made his own choices.
Where's this idea that the DH can't hold down jobs come from? If he can hold down what sounds like a lawyer's job in Birmingham I have no idea where that is from.

It's quite clear his MIL has thrown him under a bus. She could easily have had constructive conversation with him if she was not happy with his work. The evidence from what I see is that the MIL is in charge here and controlling.

Alsohuman · 27/03/2021 15:32

It's quite clear his MIL has thrown him under a bus

Is it?

She could easily have had constructive conversation with him if she was not happy with his work

She probably had that conversation numerous times over four years.

The evidence from what I see is that the MIL is in charge here and controlling

Aren’t all employers in charge and controlling? It’s inherent in being employed.

Remona · 27/03/2021 16:01

I can see both sides and both parties are at fault to a certain extent.

However, the only one here who has been right royally shafted is your poor husband.

You've got a cushy number - you have your career, free childcare and friends and family on tap so to speak. Your parents have it made too - they have their business plus you and their beloved grandchildren close by and they are seeing them a great deal more often than most grandparents do. I can totally see the appeal of having the situation as it is. It certainly suits you and your parents just fine and dandy.

Your DH, on the other hand, whilst seemingly shooting himself in the foot by declining their offer of an alternative role in their "restructuring", must be an absolute saint to tolerate this situation and your parents being in charge of everything. I can totally understand him turning down that job. He knows they've only done it for you. They may as well have come up to him and said to his face "You're shit at your job". His self esteem must be through the floor. I would have turned down that job too.

What stood out by a mile from your OP was the following:
The original idea was that she would then take a step back and he would take a step up (i.e. the future).

I can't help but feel you and your husband thought you were going to get that business handed to you on a plate and it hasn't played out like that at all. I think there's likely an element that your parents misled you to get you all to move close by, but I suspect there was also an element of greed involved here. I may well be wrong, but it was the one phrase of your OP that stood out to me like a sore thumb. You've moved from Birmingham and your DH is the only one who's given up his career and he thinks he's been sold down the river.

You need to do what's right for you, your DH and your DC. Sod whether your parents are going to like it. YOUR family need to come first now. There will be fall out if you move away, they aren't going to like it one bit, but I think it's what you need to do for your DH's sake. There isn't just Birmingham and Edinburgh as PPs have said. There are plenty of options available to you. Edinburgh is wonderful - I would love to live there! You're looking for excuses and reasons to keep things as they are, but that really isn't fair on your DH who has given up the most of anyone. You need to make him your priority now and not your parents.

Bluntness100 · 27/03/2021 16:27

However, the only one here who has been right royally shafted is your poor husband

I really can’t see how you come to this conclusion. It’s the parents being shafted if anyone. The fact he did not perform in the role is major. Even the op is stating it. She’s not hiding it. The parents are basically carrying a deadweight. If this hadn’t been their son in law they’d have got rid.

He’s not entitled to the employment of his choosing with them irrelevant of how he performs.

Honestly peoole have such an entitled view sometimes.

Bluntness100 · 27/03/2021 16:30

Where's this idea that the DH can't hold down jobs come from? If he can hold down what sounds like a lawyer's job in Birmingham I have no idea where that is from

Where does it say he’s a lawyer? I’m corporate, I’m not a lawyer, nearly every employee in our firm is not a lawyer. Confused

The op has stated it was him that pushed for this, and that due to him having some medical problem it “hastened” their departure from Birmingham and his last role. So clearly something wasn’t right there. Even if we was telling her it was due to his sore back.

Gemma2019 · 27/03/2021 16:40

The DH hasn't been royally shafted! He was the one who pushed for a move nearer to the OP's parents, presumably for the free childcare on tap and job handed to him on a plate. The OP's parents are finally (after 4 years of him "learning" the job) unable to tolerate his incompetence at work any more. They are so kind they don't even put an end to the gravy train but instead restructure the business and create a new job more suited to the OP's DH's (lack of) skills, but this isn't good enough for the OP's DH. The DH sounds like a childish, petulant, incompetent idiot.

Honestly, I think some people are so entitled and used to having everything handed to them on a plate they completely lose sight of reality.

SirVixofVixHall · 27/03/2021 16:40

I agree with Bluntness i think the fact that his employer is/was your Mum , has made both him and you too easy going about his performance in the role. He sounds a bit spoiled tbh, as though he thought it was beneath him, rather than making an effort. If he didn’t want to do it then that should have been clear from the off, you both seem to be massively taking advantage of your parents and you expect them to be grateful for the time looking after the Grandchildren because they love them, when it means that your Mum, who must be at least in her sixties, is then working late into the evening.

Remona · 27/03/2021 16:41

Honestly peoole have such an entitled view sometimes.

Really? I'm not entitled. I agree with you to a large extent. I do see both sides of it as I said.

It is highly likely that DH wasn't good at whatever job he was assigned. I think that's clear enough from the OP. However intelligent or qualified we may be, we can't be good at everything. Yes, it's likely it didn't suit him. However, I do think he's the one being shafted here.

I also agree that the OPs parents have given him employment which they did not have to do. BUT they've only done it for her sake. I can therefore fully understand why he has refused their offer of an alternative role. It would no doubt have been better all round if he hadn't been taken into the family firm in the first place.

My issue is that the OP seems to be prioritising her parents over her DH and that's not right. The OP has a situation that suits her in terms of career/childcare etc. as I stated above. The parents have a situation that suits them due to having family/their grandchildren close at hand. The only person in limbo here is DH and I absolutely do think he's drawn the short straw.

Alsohuman · 27/03/2021 16:50

The only person in limbo here is DH and I absolutely do think he's drawn the short straw

And yet he drove the move in the first place. 🤷‍♀️

Bluntness100 · 27/03/2021 16:58

My issue is that the OP seems to be prioritising her parents over her DH and that's not right

Um, no she’s not, she’s specifically stated her relationship with her parents is currently over as she’s stood “fiercely” with him. She’s allowed this man to drive a wedge between her and parents who are going out of their way to support her. Yes they have their faults, but the fundamental issue here is her husbands behaviour.

BronwenFrideswide · 27/03/2021 17:18

Yes they have their faults, but the fundamental issue here is her husbands behaviour

I disagree, the fundamental issue here is the behaviour of OP's mother, even the OP doesn't paint her in very good light either as an employer or a mother.

IfNot · 27/03/2021 17:22

The scenario could have played out completely differently.
The husband wanted to move to where OP was from. The GPs wanted to look after grandchildren. The OP wanted to be able to keep her career (which is a good thing for the whole family, as the husband was either in a hurry to leave his job in Birmingham, or was being shown the door for whatever reason.)
The GP's offered the husband a job, but he didn't have to take it he could have worked anywhere. After the first, ooh, two years, when he and OP realised it wasn't going to work out (MIL too controlling/micromanaging DH not being suited to it), he could then have taken steps to look for another job.
He CHOSE to stay, and then threw his toys out of the pram when MIL offered him a different job, that he even admits sounded better suited to him. He could also have offered to work part time or flexible hours somewhere so that they didn't need the GPs to do so much childcare.
He isn't a leaf being buffeted about in the wind, he made all these active choices, as an adult!
Now he wants to move closer to his parents (to whom he hasn't told anything at all about his life) to another country where OP can't do her job. She would be mad to consider this, he sounds really unreliable!

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