"No, I think you're hideous"

[JustAVerySmallVoice]

If you were having a 3am heart to heart conversation with someone you had been dating for 3 or 4 months in which you asked them if they thought you were attractive and this was their response, what would you think?

Why would someone date someone and introduce them to their friends etc if they thought this?

I'm used to being told I'm not pretty enough or could lose a bit of weight by men I've dated but these are usually implied. No one has ever been that direct before.

At the time, I didn't know what to think. I just thought, "Well, at least he's honest," and, although it upset me, I didn't end it straight away. I think I just appreciated the honesty

We dated for a few more months but the comment never left me. I just felt really uncomfortable that that was how he saw me and so I started to withdraw from him emotionally and physically and, in the end, I was just miserable and dumped him. The final straw was when he once, and for the first and only time, told me I looked 'really pretty' when i was ill and exhausted and objectively looked the worst he'd ever seen me. It just felt like a cruel joke.

On reflection, I don't think he was being honest. I think I put him on the spot by asking him. I think he didn't want to lie by saying, "Yes," I think he didn't want to be unkind and say, "No," so I think he gave an obviously untrue exaggerated response in order to avoid answering honestly.

Sarcasm

He didn't really say much. He sounded a bit choked up which surprised me a bit because I'd expected him to feel relief or ambivalent. And then he asked if we could be friends.

0p, taking this thread at face value, it is obvious he really loves you. If you still feel the same way then you need to tell him. I hope it works out for you both.

Surely most people would want to know if the person they were dating thought they were attractive?

Surely they wouldn't be with you if they didn't think that.

If it’s not sarcasm, he is an extremely horrible person and you would know this by now from other things he had done.

Even my horrible horrible ex just told me I was unattractive (bad enough, and I hadn’t even asked him what I thought!) - he never called me “hideous”.

So you misunderstood his joke, really believed he thought you were hideous yet stayed in a relationship with him for 6 months?! If you really believed he had called you hideous, you should have dumped him there and then. Or at least communicated with him about how that comment made you feel.

After the sarcastic comment he stayed with you six months. Men don’t do that with women they don’t find attractive. He was choked up when you broke up with him. YOU broke up with him. Not the other way round. He was so upset he couldn’t imagine life without you and asked to stay friends.

Everything about this is screaming that YES HE FOUND YOU ATTRACTIVE. It’s like a bright flashing Neon sign, yet you can’t see it. And only agree with posters who go against the grain. You are completely dismissive of any suggestions that you might be attractive. And you are holding on to this and brooding about it which is very damaging to you.

I really, really strongly advise you to access help. I’m not sure about the success rate of CBT with autistic people but you do need help with your thought processing and ways of restructuring your thinking. It all seems so damaging to you. I think there’s a very really chance you simply can’t see when you are loved and that’s a no win situation for everyone.

Wrt 'going against the grain': my message was meant to clarify how the OP might have ended up logically drawing the conclusion she did about her appearance. Unfortunately logic does not play as robust a role in human interaction as we might like it to OP, at least for neurotypical people! It does sound on the face of it like he didn't mean his remarks about your appearance in the way you interpreted them.

I sympathise with your confusion/frustration: my husband has a tendency to say words that do not accurately map onto reality (IMO). An example would be for him to say 'the sky is blue' and then argue vigorously that this conveys perfectly accurately what he meant to say, which was that the sky is yellow we've remained married but only just! This is partly because I always now ask WTF he actually meant and don't stop digging until he states words which are logical and in alignment with reality. He finds me a delight but has not divorced me. He says its endearing (sort of)

I hope you find this thread at least slightly useful OP!

@JustAVerySmallVoice I’m so sorry that you have tortured yourself out of a relationship because of a misunderstanding. As you never raised it again, he didn’t get the chance to correct what was said. That’s kind of sad for everyone.

You didn’t think he found you attractive yet was dating you? So you avoided standing next to him while out so as not to embarrass him?

Yes, absolutely sounds like sarcasm. Possibly from someone who’s a bit tired of constantly boosting a needy partner who has a self-esteem issue.

Maybe he shouldn’t have been so sarcastic given your very obvious issues around self-image. However your initial post and follow-up comments suggest you have much bigger issues than a flippant comment an ex made. Take some time for yourself and maybe consider counselling. You clearly can’t see your own beauty and self worth - and until you do, you’re never going to be truly happy.

Gah!! The rest of your comments didn’t load OP - I’ve only just seen them.

Obviously the fact you’re autistic changes a lot. My two children are autistic and I’m neurodiverse.

The thing is with a lot of autistic people is that it’s very hard to let go of things. Words and events from a long time ago tend to continue to burn brightly, just as if they happened yesterday. So I get why you’re hanging on to this - but you need to work on allowing yourself to forget it.

Sometimes, if a person asks a question where the answer is so obvious, sarcasm is used in response. Saying to you “no you’re hideous” is actually a bit of a weird compliment. What he was actually saying was “you’re so pretty I can joke about it because the answer is blindingly obvious”.

Low self-esteem again is common with autistics. Can you access some counselling? I think you could really do with some support for your mental health and also some help to see your own beauty and self-worth. Never be embarrassed about who you are. Don’t ever feel as if you’re not good enough for someone because you absolutely are.

It's a stupid question to ask in the first place. So he gave you a stupid answer. It's your insecurities takng it seriously. Are you usually not good at reading people?

It's a stupid question to ask in the first place. So he gave you a stupid answer. It's your insecurities takng it seriously. Are you usually not good at reading people?

She has autism, so that's a no.

@interest12

It's a stupid question to ask in the first place. So he gave you a stupid answer. It's your insecurities takng it seriously. Are you usually not good at reading people?

Oh, I just saw that you are autistic. Saying that you are hideous in that context means exactly the opposite. He sounds like a good guy imo. Maybe explain that it was a misunderstanding and ask him to try again

Sarcasm because it’s a bit of a daft question to ask

I think it sounds like a joke, too. My DH has that kind of dry sense of humour as well, so I’m very familiar with it. (My DM still falls for it after nearly 18 years of him having been her SIL. )

I’m sorry you were hurt by it. But it sounds as if he was clueless about your autism and didn’t expect you to take him literally. As others have pointed out, why would he be dating you if he didn’t find you attractive?

I think you should try and explain the misunderstanding to him. I know you say you’re just friends now, but it’s obvious that you were both hurt so it might be worth talking to him about it?

Sarcasm or not, it’s not something I would joke about. I would let you know right away how beautiful you are.

But It does seem like he was being sarcastic. And it won’t be the only time he will do this when you want him to be serious.

@Blueberries0112

Sarcasm or not, it’s not something I would joke about. I would let you know right away how beautiful you are.

But It does seem like he was being sarcastic. And it won’t be the only time he will do this when you want him to be serious.

I think it depends on personality. If my husband asked me if I found him attractive I’d be all “fuck no, you’re like a hairy knuckled gargoyle.” And I’d find it amusing. Because a stupid question deserves a stupid answer. I’d also expect him to know I was joking. Because clearly if I didn’t find him attractive I’d not be with him.

Having a sense of humour is a positive. It’s not a negative. Of course you need to know when to joke, but this is a situation where cracking a joke would not be uncommon. He didn’t know the op was autistic at this stage and would have assumed she’d know it was a joke because he was with her. It was a light hearted comment. Made to show the stupidity of the question.

OP, I think you are just going to have to accept that you and he have completely different ways of communicating, and sense of humour. Sarcasm, being deadpan IS a way many people communicate, and compatible partners understand it and enjoy it. Your autism does make this difficult to understand, and so he is not the right partner for you.

There are also plenty of neurotypical people who don't get sarcasm, the same way they may not get a certain type of humour or think in a certain way (creative vs analytical), or understand certain slang. He obviously communicates in a way you don't understand and so you should just leave him be, and find someone who is on the same page as you. If you need him to just confirm that it was sarcasm you can reach out to clarify it. Otherwise, there is nothing to be gained from thinking this through anymore or trying to understand his rationale.

If you do want to date him or someone who communicates in the way he does, you are going to have be much more open and clear about needing clarification or not getting sarcasm. You cannot expect someone to immediately pick up on this - and you too have a role in relationships to ensure the other person understands you and can communicate appropriately. No one is a mind reader. And if you are uncomfortable doing this, you're better off dating someone who is as literal as you or has experience of dealing with someone with your communication style.

The relationship with him was never going to work. It isn't fair to him that you detached from him and ended things because of one comment he made that you could have clarified at the time. It isn't fair to you to date someone whose sense of humour you don't understand and find hurtful. You both deserve a relationship that is easy

Chalk this up to a learning experience, that communication and sense of humour are obviously very important for you. And focus on finding someone more compatible. But you need to also work on being comfortable with letting them know how you want communication to go. If not, you're not giving them a chance to say/do the right thing. No one is a mind reader.

I too think this was nonsense talk/irony. I never realised till I joined mumsnet just how literal some people are. I'm learning more about autism and I just read that you have it, so your response makes sense to me. How sad though, that miscommunication (as I see it) caused this.

Op I think you have trouble understanding sarcasm because of your autism and might have taken a joke literally.
It may be good in the future just to let people know you take things seriously at face value and maybe have a heart to heart with him that when he said you were hideous you thought he was being serious.
That way you can get to the bottom of your own feelings and maybe get some closure, no offense but you sound a little insecure.

Were there things that happened before this that made you question whether he found you attractive? This is important to consider to.

In my last relationship I was very insecure about this because he never complimented me, was I affectionate etc. Eventually he did actually tell me he wasn’t attracted to me. But he still did want to continue the relationship.

At the time I kinda took it (tho it massively messed with my head) - I just assumed he liked me in other ways (tho to be fair he was critical of many aspects of my personality too) but just didn’t fancy me.

I would NEVER remain in the relationship like that again.

With my present partner I have no question as to whether he thinks I am attractive as he makes it clear by his words and deeds.

What his response meant was “yes I find you attractive. Isn’t the answer obvious”.
Surely he would have wanted me to think or know what then?
From his point of view, the meaning of what he said was very clear. This phrasing is one that you hear often.

For example, someone might say "I feel so stupid" and their brother might say "Sure, you're as thick as two short planks, that's how you got into law school!" to make the person laugh at how ridiculous the idea is and tell them to stop putting themself down.

Or a woman says "Do you think people will notice the stain on my sleeve?" and her husband answers "It's all anyone will be looking at! People will be taking photographs!" - which means that the stain is tiny, and anyway no-one will care. Again, the idea is to make his wife laugh and show how ridiculous she is being by even asking.

Because this style of answer is common in response to people asking for reassurance, and most people know what it means (as you see from this thread), your bf had no clue - he could not even begin to guess - that you might understand it differently.

I think he couldn't answer yes because it was untrue and he couldn't answer no because it was unkind so he deflected it with an exaggerated response. And that was where i got to once I'd got past thinking he was just being honest.
I doubt he was thinking "You are the most beautiful woman in the world", as if you were, he'd probably have just said that. He was probably thinking that you just look fine, or even that you look weird but he kind of loves it. But most women would not want to hear that as an answer. So he gave you the kind of answer that you give someone when they sound insecure and you want to tell them not to be silly.

My boyfriend is not conventionally attractive. He's 55, with bad teeth, is balding, and is overweight. I can't tell him how attractive he is as he would think I was being silly. But I do find him attractive, because I like him. I'm not embarrassed to be with him; I'm proud, as he's likeable and funny. Even if you look absolutely horrible (I have no idea!), maybe that's how your bf felt about you.

I asked my boyfriend the other day if he thought I'd put on weight during lockdown (which looking back is never a good question to ask your partner) and he looked me dead in the eye and said totally deadpan, "Yes. You're an absolute whale. We're gonna need to widen the door frames". It made me laugh and realise how ridiculous I was being.

It's just a normal sarcastic reaction to a question when you're clearly fishing for something.

OP if you're going to maintain a friendship with this guy, I think it's something you'll need to mention and get clarity over. Clearly it's still on your mind and I think it would be good for you to get closure (one way or another)

For clarity, if someone asks you "Do you think I look attractive?", "Yes" is not normally considered an acceptable answer. The normal rules of etiquette mean that you should be more emphatic or go into greater detail. "Yes" would come across as not enthusiastic enough.

Most men have learned that when a woman asks any question of this kind, whatever their answer is, it might be misinterpreted. So they do not normally give a direct answer.

@ravenmum

For clarity, if someone asks you "Do you think I look attractive?", "Yes" is not normally considered an acceptable answer. The normal rules of etiquette mean that you should be more emphatic or go into greater detail. "Yes" would come across as not enthusiastic enough.

Most men have learned that when a woman asks any question of this kind, whatever their answer is, it might be misinterpreted. So they do not normally give a direct answer.

I'd have said the normal rules of etiquette suggest you don't ask needy questions like this. Seriously, a simple yes is not considered fulsome enough? What sort of elaborate prose would be considered adequate?