"No, I think you're hideous"

[JustAVerySmallVoice]

If you were having a 3am heart to heart conversation with someone you had been dating for 3 or 4 months in which you asked them if they thought you were attractive and this was their response, what would you think?

Why would someone date someone and introduce them to their friends etc if they thought this?

I'm used to being told I'm not pretty enough or could lose a bit of weight by men I've dated but these are usually implied. No one has ever been that direct before.

At the time, I didn't know what to think. I just thought, "Well, at least he's honest," and, although it upset me, I didn't end it straight away. I think I just appreciated the honesty

We dated for a few more months but the comment never left me. I just felt really uncomfortable that that was how he saw me and so I started to withdraw from him emotionally and physically and, in the end, I was just miserable and dumped him. The final straw was when he once, and for the first and only time, told me I looked 'really pretty' when i was ill and exhausted and objectively looked the worst he'd ever seen me. It just felt like a cruel joke.

On reflection, I don't think he was being honest. I think I put him on the spot by asking him. I think he didn't want to lie by saying, "Yes," I think he didn't want to be unkind and say, "No," so I think he gave an obviously untrue exaggerated response in order to avoid answering honestly.

Also I don’t think you have anything to feel embarrassed or ashamed about.

Sorehandsandfeet

I think part of the fear in talking to him about it lies in the risk that he might have been telling the truth. I don't want to hear it twice.

I stayed with him because I appreciated the honesty. He didnt make general unpleasant remarks about my appearance like other men have. He just didnt really say anything other than this when I asked. I didnt think it would bother means much as it did.

Also I don’t think you have anything to feel embarrassed or ashamed about.

I feel ashamed and embarrassed that it bothers me so much. I feel ashamed and embarrassed that it might be true. I feel ashamed and embarrassed that it has become so important to me.

Op what was his behaviour like while you were dating him?

Did he keep you secret from his friends?
Did you ever see anyone in a group (before lockdown)?

I am sure you are NOT hideous and that your boyfriend was being sarcastic, but what made you doubt his motives towards you? Why were you feeling insecure, if indeed insecurity prompted your question? Did he treat you well or not?

And if he did, why are you so emphatic that you remain just friends now? Could you explain the situation to him and renew your relationship? If he said that he was being sarcastic, and that he found you very attractive, could you see all of that shrinking away from him as a problem created in your own mind and put it to one side and start afresh? [Old romantic emoticon ]

I don't think you have the same sander of humour. I would reconsider if you are a good match.

Did he keep you secret from his friends?

No. We had a few mutual friends anyway. He introduced me to another group of friends the week after we started dating and various others over the months. His family knew about me but we hadn't met before lockdown. It took me longer to introduce him to my friends because I generally don't mix groups of people in my life.

Why were you feeling insecure, if indeed insecurity prompted your question?

Because I just didnt know and wasn't sure if i was supposed to be affectionate or initiate sex or anything.

I have some difficulties (it has been pointed out to me) with 'object constancy'. The idea that if something was the truth yesterday, it is still the truth today and will be tomorrow. I have to remind myself of it constantly. I need something tangible to do that with.

It wouldn't have been a perfect solution but, if he'd told me once that he thought i was attractive, I could have reminded myself of that at the times I wasn't sure. But all that i had to remind myself with was horrible.

Did your own family never tease you OP?
In my family sarcasm is everyday language and we share a dark humour.
My df’s partner told me and my db off for being mean to df. It was just normal banter to us.
Ime if your dp said you were hideous it’s because he felt your relationship was close enough that he could joke and you wouldn’t take him seriously.

Why did you take him literally when he said you were hideous, but not when he said you were pretty?

Op this is very typical and common dry humour. When someone asks a question where the answer is blindingly obvious then you answer with the complete opposite. I get you don’t understand it, but it’s very common

It’s like you’re standing outside snd it’s raining. And a friend says “what’s today’s weather forecast” and you respond “ well it’s going to be 28 degrees and blazing sunshine”. It’s sarcasm, a joke.m

What his response meant was “yes I find you attractive. Isn’t the answer obvious”.

Does he have a good understanding of autism, do you think? I think if you do want to talk to him about it (and for what it's worth, it sounds to me like he was being sarcastic) then I would probably start by reminding him you're Autistic and does he know what that means? And explain how it can make you take things that are said very literally. Then talk about what happened.

You don't have to talk to him about it if you don't want to, but it sounds like you need some kind of resolution to it all. It does sound like he was joking, likely because he felt a little awkward by the conversation and it's quite a common response I would think.

He likes your company. He likes you. You know this. What you wanted to know was whether he wants a physical relationship with you rather than just being friends. So you asked if he found you attractive and, in your interpretation you think he said that he doesn't. Whereas what he meant was, he does.

I agree with you OP, it would all be so much easier if people were straight talkers but unfortunately the majority of us are not.

So what you need to decide now is whether you want him as a friend or whether you want him as a romantic partner.

@MilkTwoSugarsThanks

This is what happens when you fish for compliments.

I'd think I was an idiot for asking such a ridiculous question.

Exactly this.

People keep saying 'it was a joke or sarcasm' but theres also a saying... behind every jest is an element of truth

That’s not universal as it doesn’t allow for the aspect of banter.

You eat a meal that you obviously enjoy. This is evident from your gusto at eating it and the fact you’ve virtually licked the plate clean. From there someone may say ‘so you didn’t like it then’ (sarcasm obviously) and you respond (no, hideous but I managed to force it down). Banter, nothing more or less. There’s millions of permutations for different situations.

Going back to the OP’s issue though, there are 2 things. It was obviously sarcasm. Also, the guy was with her for a while and seemingly introduced her to friends etc, didn’t agree to only meet in dark basements etc. So, he obviously thought there was something relationship worthy. In my youth I dated people with amazing looks and people who would be considered less than average as that was not my criteria for dating. It’s probably the same with this guy. Similarly I dated two guys who traditionally dated models (literally). I am NOT anything like a model. I had other qualities that they valued over appearance. I wasn’t dumb, no way I measured up to their ex’s in regards to looks but there were obviously other aspects where their ex’s didn’t measure up to me! Such is life.

No. We had a few mutual friends anyway. He introduced me to another group of friends the week after we started dating and various others over the months. His family knew about me but we hadn't met before lockdown. It took me longer to introduce him to my friends because I generally don't mix groups of people in my life.

^Op this is DEFINITELY not the behaviour of someone who finds you hideous!

It wouldn't have been a perfect solution but, if he'd told me once that he thought i was attractive, I could have reminded myself of that at the times I wasn't sure. But all that i had to remind myself with was horrible.

^ Ah op this makes me so sad . I understand what you mean about object constancy and really feel for you that you are unable to feel more self confident. It's obvious you are very intelligent from the way you write. And 'your' bloke obviously sees that too because he wants to stick around as your friend.

He sounds like such a lovely person and he won't understand what he has done to make you retreat like this. He is probably a bit bewildered. Why not put him out if his misery?

Just choose a good quiet moment and simply say "you know when you said I was hideous that evening, did you mean it?" And then don't say anything else and leave him to speak.

Did your own family never tease you OP?

No. We weren't close. On reflection, my parents struggled with me being different and I didnt really have any sort of relationship with them at all. We were just people who lived in the house together. We were like two incompatible alien species occupying the same space. Neither of us made sense to the other. I was a very sad, lonely and frustrated child/teen. They are both dead. I'm much more socially adept now I'm an adult and have learnt how to be so.

Why did you take him literally when he said you were hideous, but not when he said you were pretty?

The pretty comment came about 6 months after the hideous one. I was realising at that point just how upset I'd been by the hideous comment and how it was just getting worse. I had almost decided to end it.

After the hideous comment, I was really aware of how I looked when I saw him. Sometimes I made an effort but mostly it just felt like a ridiculous joke so I didn't bother. I was very preoccupied by it and trying to make sense of it. The night he told me i was pretty, I had almost cancelled seeing him because I felt ill. I saw myself in the mirror and thought I looked awful. I was a little worried about him seeing me like that anyway and then just told myself that he didn't find me attractive anyway so it didnt really matter. I could hardly make it worse. And then I braved it out but felt really self conscious.

And then he told me i looked 'really pretty' and it just felt like a cruel joke because i looked tired and pale and haggard. It really upset me. I didnt let on because I didnt want him to know he'd upset me. I saw him a couple of times after that and broke up with him.

What his response meant was “yes I find you attractive. Isn’t the answer obvious”.

Surely he would have wanted me to think or know what then?

It definitely sounds like a sarcastic comment to me - he thought it must be so obvious that he found you attractive, given that he was choosing to be in a relationship with you, that he could give a silly, exaggeratedly untrue response and you would know that it wasn’t his actual opinion.

It’s not your fault if this is the case and you misinterpreted it. Not everyone gets or likes sarcasm. But he’s not necessarily in the wrong either - lots of people make sarcastic jokes, it can be a style of humour / communication.

What this does sound like is a total communications mismatch. His style of communicating and yours aren’t compatible. He didn’t realise that you might take sarcastic comments literally, and you didn’t feel able to be upfront about the kind of communication you needed. These kinds of things can be resolved in a relationship, but it’s hard and takes willingness from both parties. And ultimately it might never have worked - he might always have made these kinds of comments and you might always have found them hard to deal with.

Did you give him a reason for breaking up? Not that you have to.
I suspect he’s completely baffled and upset himself. He will have no idea that his joke comment will have upset you and perhaps will be wondering what is “wrong” with him.

A lot of people here have said that his response was obvious sarcasm and 'why would he be with you if he doesn't find you attractive'. Just a cursory reading of these boards will show scores of threads in which people stay in relationships with partners they visibly dislike: because of the house, the kids, the inconvenience of separation, the fact that currently they get to have sex even if it's not with a person they find particularly gorgeous etc. So just being in a partnership with someone doesn't necessarily mean they find you attractive at all - you might just be convenient. That is my assessment of it anyway; as an aside, I am not diagnosed as autistic but have suspected I might be all my life as I am often told I'm getting social situations wrong/being weird/over thinking etc.

I hope you're OK OP.

I don’t think it matters, in a way, if it was meant or not. You need someone who flatters you and makes you feel attractive. That’s not a big ask. He didn’t provide that, so would it have ever worked? It does sound like maybe you need to work on your self esteem though?

To be clear, I posted the above in support of the OP as I understand why she might not have assumed relationship = attraction.

@ShipOfTheseus

Did you give him a reason for breaking up? Not that you have to. I suspect he’s completely baffled and upset himself. He will have no idea that his joke comment will have upset you and perhaps will be wondering what is “wrong” with him.

I just told him I was unhappy and that I knew he didn't find me attractive and I wanted to be with someone who could love me.

He didn't really say much. He sounded a bit choked up which surprised me a bit because I'd expected him to feel relief or ambivalent. And then he asked if we could be friends.

@ContessaDiPulpo

A lot of people here have said that his response was obvious sarcasm and 'why would he be with you if he doesn't find you attractive'. Just a cursory reading of these boards will show scores of threads in which people stay in relationships with partners they visibly dislike: because of the house, the kids, the inconvenience of separation, the fact that currently they get to have sex even if it's not with a person they find particularly gorgeous etc. So just being in a partnership with someone doesn't necessarily mean they find you attractive at all - you might just be convenient. That is my assessment of it anyway; as an aside, I am not diagnosed as autistic but have suspected I might be all my life as I am often told I'm getting social situations wrong/being weird/over thinking etc.

I hope you're OK OP.

Yes, that's exactly what I was thinking. Thank you.

And then he told me i looked 'really pretty' and it just felt like a cruel joke because i looked tired and pale and haggard. It really upset me. I didnt let on because I didnt want him to know he'd upset me. I saw him a couple of times after that and broke up with him.

This has got nothing to do with autism. You are making a choice as to which statements to take literally, and which you take for lies. You believe anything that matches your own assessment of yourself.

This is 100% about your self-esteem.

Either he's extremely abusive or he was being sarcastic.

He didn't really say much. He sounded a bit choked up which surprised me a bit because I'd expected him to feel relief or ambivalent. And then he asked if we could be friends.

He was probably choked up because he was upset, because he wants to be your boyfriend (because he likes you and finds you attractive).