"No, I think you're hideous"

[JustAVerySmallVoice]

If you were having a 3am heart to heart conversation with someone you had been dating for 3 or 4 months in which you asked them if they thought you were attractive and this was their response, what would you think?

Why would someone date someone and introduce them to their friends etc if they thought this?

I'm used to being told I'm not pretty enough or could lose a bit of weight by men I've dated but these are usually implied. No one has ever been that direct before.

At the time, I didn't know what to think. I just thought, "Well, at least he's honest," and, although it upset me, I didn't end it straight away. I think I just appreciated the honesty

We dated for a few more months but the comment never left me. I just felt really uncomfortable that that was how he saw me and so I started to withdraw from him emotionally and physically and, in the end, I was just miserable and dumped him. The final straw was when he once, and for the first and only time, told me I looked 'really pretty' when i was ill and exhausted and objectively looked the worst he'd ever seen me. It just felt like a cruel joke.

On reflection, I don't think he was being honest. I think I put him on the spot by asking him. I think he didn't want to lie by saying, "Yes," I think he didn't want to be unkind and say, "No," so I think he gave an obviously untrue exaggerated response in order to avoid answering honestly.

I agree; I wouldn't ask a question like this, either. But if someone asked me this, my answer would not be a simple "Yes." Would yours?

I can see myself saying that. Because it's a stupid question. You're in a relationship with someone, of course they find you attractive (in whatever way) or they wouldn't be. So I would be fairly flippant in response to that question too.

(I might answer "You look especially delicious today" - teasingly - or "Why are you asking?", or "Of course, duh!")

Sounds like sarcasm OP and you're only a few months into the relationship, so perhaps he felt uncomfortable with the question. Maybe you should focus on yourself for now. Work on your self esteem and confidence.

I mean, you're in bed at 3am and I presume you're doing the deed, so why else would he be doing it, unless he found you attractive. Maybe he thinks it's obvious he does.

It was sarcasm, he said it because he thought it was obvious that you knew he found you attractive, as you were already dating.
If you're autistic then I understand why you have taken his response literally, but he meant the opposite.

I'd have taken it as a jokey answer. I don't know of anyone who would date someone they found unattractive.

TBH I'd probably say the same thing if someone asked me if I found them attractive - because it's a daft question (or would be to me). I'd give a proper answer if they said 'what do you find most attractive about me'

Also, from your description, it sounds like playful sarcasm, not intended to be mean or cruel, but intended to draw attention to the fact that he thought the question had an obvious answer (that OF COURSE he found you attractive).

I haven't read the thread op, but I thought you might like a different perspective.

Firstly, very few people in this world are actually not good looking enough to be described as hideous. Most people are somewhere along the continuum of fanciable to some, but not others.

Secondly, it's very unusual to date someone who doesn't find you attractive.

However, sometimes words expressing as such are said. As many have indicated previously, it could be said in jest.

I did have a bf who said something along the same lines and it messed with my head. I now know he was doing something called negging- putting me down to make me more controllable and desperate.

My bf said, "No one can see why I am with you because you are not beautiful."

I won't go into details, but it was a toxic relationship that really messed with my self esteem. It was also bollox, I am not so ugly that I deserved that comment, like everyone I am pretty to some, not all.

Anyway, the reason I mention it is because this bf liked the idea of me, particularly because I was a virgin when we met, once he got to know me and my human side he couldn't handle it and became increasingly cruel.

The signs were all there in the beginning though.

The reason I give you my experience is because you need to question his motives and your understanding of him. If he's a genuinely nice bloke who's attracted to you, the remarks were obviously in jest and you should not give them a second thought, but perhaps let him know why you felt like you did.

However, if you feel he was not a nice person and put you down deliberately, then you need to cut ties and not give it a second thought.

In both scenarios you need to accept that what he said has no basis in reality. He was either joking or being deliberately mean. Either way, try not to let it affect your self esteem. I know it's hard, it took a decade for me to undo the damage my ex did, but I now realise it was his problem, not mine.

I know your autism will not help so I'd recommend talking it over with a friend you can trust. But do make sure it is a true friend, as in my case I confided in someone who made it worse.

But I can tell you absolutely that you are not hideous. People generally use that word as a joke or if you have an extreme medical deformity. (And in the case of the second scenario, they'd still never tell you to your face)

Honestly, you must be attractive enough if someone wants a relationship with you. Believe. In. Yourself.

I'm going to go completely against the grain here.

I don't think the question you asked was stupid or inappropriate at all. Usually we don't have to ask because the other person is at some point vocal about finding us attractive. If that never happened then I can completely understand why you wanted to know and this is completely different to "fishing for complements".

It is not true that just because someone dates you they find you physically attractive. People can date someone despite not finding them pretty. They might value other qualities of that person or because they feel like they can't do any better etc.
His response was not acceptable, especially that he knew you were autistic and asked for a straight answer. I could understand the sarcasm in the context of a traditionally beautiful woman asking several times when the answer is obvious. That's not the case here. You say you are not (or do not feel) conventionally "pretty" and that he never told any complements about your looks. That changes everything!

It does not seem like he's a cruel person so that leaves him being either socialy ackward or trying to purposely avoid the subject.
What bothers me as well is the fact that he didn't clarify anything when you said to him you're unhappy because you don't feel he finds you attractive.
It seems most likely he didn't find you physically attractive or he did but he has problem with opening about it for whatever reason. Some people feel uncomfortable with complements because of their own issues. Unfortunately only he knows the full truth.
Either way you deserve to feel cherished and attractive and that's not something you can get from him.

Fucksake. This thread is so very... british. Like when someone who doesnt speak English as a first language and misses a subtle 'joke'.

I'm British through and through, and not autistic, but the absolute NUANCES PPs are telling OP she may have missed too make me never want a social interaction again!

It's like jumping through hoops, reading between the lines, and reading the second hiding meaning in EVERYTHING is the norm. You cant just 'give it out' and shrug and say that's me. Really you have to read the room and know that if you're a bulldozer verbally some comments may fall flat and backtrack. That's what's happened here I think. I can be quite a piss taker full of banter but I test the water first gently. It's like a comedian is only as good as his audience finds him funny.

Stressful thread

Lili132

You've articulated everything i was thinking. Thank you

For clarity, if someone asks you "Do you think I look attractive?", "Yes" is not normally considered an acceptable answer. The normal rules of etiquette mean that you should be more emphatic or go into greater detail. "Yes" would come across as not enthusiastic enough.

"Yes" would have been a perfectly acceptable answer to me.

OP

The only way you can find out what he meant is to ask him. Most of us seem to think he was joking - but only he can tell you.

I get that you feel embarrassed and ashamed on all sorts of levels, but that’s actually nothing to do with what he said - that’s to do with how you see yourself. If a partner said he found me hideous (and I didn’t think he was joking), I would dump him on the spot, because

1. I wouldn’t want to waste my time with someone who felt that way
2. There are plenty of people who find me attractive.
3. I know I’m not hideous

The issue is not what your partner said, it’s your reaction/self-esteem. As you acknowledge yourself, it’s tapped into your own negative beliefs about yourself - that nobody can find you attractive. I wonder if something happened when you were younger that makes you think this - if you were teased or bullied? It is very unlikely that you are ‘hideous’ - you don’t have to be drop-dead gorgeous model-type to be attractive to other people.

I think you may have a ‘blind spot’ here - you mention this one thing, which may well have been a miscommunication and completely dismiss other evidence e.g. he told you you were pretty, he was choked up when you finished with him, he wanted to be friends and has been a good friend to you since.

Personally, I’d let him know why you finished with him and see what he says. It will be scary, but it doesn’t seem like you will be able to put this to rest unless you face up to it.

@JustAVerySmallVoice

For clarity, if someone asks you "Do you think I look attractive?", "Yes" is not normally considered an acceptable answer. The normal rules of etiquette mean that you should be more emphatic or go into greater detail. "Yes" would come across as not enthusiastic enough.

"Yes" would have been a perfectly acceptable answer to me.

I was pointing out that he would not assume that to be the case.

Why did you disbelieve him when he said you looked 'really pretty' but believed him when he said he thought you were hideous ?

Hideous means revolting or ugly in the extreme so I'm sure he was joking as it would've been really cruel if he was being serious. From what you've said about him, he's not a cruel person.

Are you sure he wasnt being sarcastic?

@Sparklfairy I live in Germany and my relationships are in German, with Germans, who are actually considered excessively straightforward by many outsiders - but social interactions are actually just as nuanced and tricky as anywhere else. You still have to be careful not to "tread in a bowl of fat", as they call putting your foot in it here. We pick these things up through learning and don't normally have to express them, but sure, they are very weird when you do!

*Why did you disbelieve him when he said you looked 'really pretty' but believed him when he said he thought you were hideous

I've already answered this.

I was shocked when he said it so I didnt ask why he had said it. After hearing that, I didn't want to talk about it anymore. It was 3am.and we'd both had a drink so I couldn't drive home. By the morning, I felt quite anxious about it and didnt want to mention it again so i just pretended it hadn't happened.

Afterwards, i was confused by it. I didnt understand why he would be with me if that was what he thought. After thinking about it, I realised that he probably didn't actually think I was hideous but that yes would have been a lie, and he didnt want to upset me by being honest and saying no. So he'd said that as a way of a 'joke' to avoid answering it properly.

The pretty comment came about 6 months after the hideous one. I was realising at that point just how upset I'd been by the hideous comment and how it was just getting worse. I had almost decided to end it.

After the hideous comment, I was really aware of how I looked when I saw him. Sometimes I made an effort but mostly it just felt like a ridiculous joke so I didn't bother. I was very preoccupied by it and trying to make sense of it. The night he told me i was pretty, I had almost cancelled seeing him because I felt ill. I saw myself in the mirror and thought I looked awful. I was a little worried about him seeing me like that anyway and then just told myself that he didn't find me attractive anyway so it didnt really matter. I could hardly make it worse. And then I braved it out but felt really self conscious.

And then he told me i looked 'really pretty' and it just felt like a cruel joke because i looked tired and pale and haggard. It really upset me. I didnt let on because I didnt want him to know he'd upset me. I saw him a couple of times after that and broke up with him.

Someone not thinking I'm attractive is one thing but being cruel is something else.

Personally, I’d let him know why you finished with him and see what he says. It will be scary, but it doesn’t seem like you will be able to put this to rest unless you face up to it.

I do feel i want to now. But I'm not sure i want to hear the response.

I like the suggestion someone (sorry I forget who) made earlier that i should just ask him straight out if he meant it. I'm not sure I'd be able to deal with any answer now though.

TheBuffster

Thanks for your perspective. The problem with speaking tona friend is that friends are rarely honest either. They say things that they think you want to hear and i don't really trust that I will be told the truth because they find it difficult to be honest!

People underestimate my need for directness and honesty.

Ok

I really think he was being sarcastic when he called you hideous and sincere when he called you pretty.

I understand you don't want to ask him again for fear of hearing you are hideous again.

Would it help if you decided you had a different motive for asking (you don't need to tell him this)? You could ask to assess if he was being unkind or not. If he was being sarcastic then it was a misunderstanding and you know he's a nice person. If it wasn't sarcasm, it wasn't nice, he's not as nice as you think.

I think this is very sad though, it sounds like a breakdown of communication between two people who potentially really liked each other. It's awful that you felt you should pretend not to be together. I really feel for you here.

Whatever happens here, I think you should be direct the next time someone makes a remark that confuses you. My stepdaughter recently said to me "I can't tell when you're being sarcastic, your tone doesn't change". I am deadpan sometimes. I appreciate her telling me. Now I'm clearer. It doesn't have to involve a big explanation about autism, just counter with "I can't tell if you're being serious or not."

I think it's sad too. It sounds like he really liked you. I agree with PP that British culture and social etiquette is a minefield!
You could indeed ask him without making a big deal of it. Just say you are doing personal research on social interactions etc
You might also consider training him and being very direct about your communication needs. His way isn't the right way and your way isn't wrong. He probably doesn't realise it is confusing but if you explain that you struggle with irony and he needs to be clear and honest then, if he is a decent bloke he will try. But you need to be willing to be vulnerable and ask for clarification if you are not sure too. This is how it works with me and my autistic friends

Just realised poster above me said the same thing but better!

Sillysandy

Thank you. Your suggestions are really good. I'll think about reframing it in my head.

It doesn't have to involve a big explanation about autism, just counter with "I can't tell if you're being serious or not."

That's also a really good suggestion. I'm not sure I'd have said that even if I'd thought of it at the time. It would feel a bit arrogant to assume someone was being sarcastic or speaking in jest because they had said something I didnt like.

But i can see it is better than the alternative of doing nothing.

But OP - he didn't say something you just didn't like - he said you were hideous! How could you take that to be an honest view of someone he was dating?
I think you honestly have a low self esteem and have taught yourself to have a low expectation around what is attractive about you - so that a word like hideous might be said and that it would be on you to overcome it!
It was said to avoid saying something nice - by saying something outrageous. To slap you down for asking. Not nice in itself really- but not sincere either.

This is so frustrating to read. I do not doubt for a minute that you are very attractive and that this was simply a joke that landed badly and he had no idea that this would happen because you didn’t tell him at the time that you don’t understand sarcasm and need things to be honest. I am in no doubt that he thought you must know how pretty you are (or how pretty he found you) and that you were indeed ‘fishing’.
Even your description of asking someone if they liked a meal you had made shows that you don’t understand hidden meanings - most neurotypical people would immediately respond with praise even if they disliked the food because they would appreciate the effort you had gone to in making the dish. If you were actually not very attractive and asked someone, most people who are fond of you would lie and say something like ‘you’re really lovely’ to make you feel better. It is a different way of thinking and acting than the way you think and act, but this whole relationship failed due to a complete misunderstanding.
I think you owe it to him to tell him that even after all this time he passed, you have trouble unravelling some confusion in your relationship and that you would like to chat about what went wrong. Then remind him of exactly what happened and how it led to you eventually dumping him. At least then you can both clear the air and he can probably get closure - he is probably totally in the dark about how the person he thought so highly of dumped him. I think you’d both feel better for talking about it. Maybe show him the thread, too.
You are autistic, he isn’t. Neither of you can change that, but talking openly about this episode is needed because you are still upset and no matter how many of us explain what we think he meant, I think you need to close this by talking directly to him.