Help me stay in my marriage.

[Littlesthobo84]

Just that really.
Late 30s, husband late 40s, it’s ok and plods along. We don’t row. He says he is perfectly happy. We don’t have sex. He won’t use condoms or get a vasectomy - he wants to risk timing. I won’t risk timing because I’ve had two high risk really difficult pregnancies already and although given my age it’s probably not likely my cycles are still regular and normal so it’s possible.
He says either I take the pill or we risk timing and I’ve taken the pill before and don’t want to be on it forevermore. I have migraines with aura and cannot take oestrogen based hormone medication. I took the mini pill for a long time before the children.
I don’t think I even want to have sex with him anyway and presumably it’s mutual because he’s not fussed about the vasectomy that he’s been mentioning for the past six years but not done anything about. We are nearly six years since we last had sex now. God, that’s even worse when written down.
I’m depressed about it, I feel checked out, but I don’t hate him. I care about him. I love my children. They are happy. My life is very separate to DH and always has been but my children are happy.
I just need to wait it out another 12/13 years until dd is 18. Remind me how the grass isn’t greener.

You said up thread that your DH has a temper and shouts and your kids don't like it.

You need to wake up op. If children have two living parents who are happy together then yea, it is in their best interests to maintain the status quo.

What you describe isn't that.

Your marriage sounds over anyway. Your husband won't use a condom so he can have sex with you. He doesn't want sex and you feel the same. It's done.

Don't throw your life away based on your parents advice.

I'd give it a year from June and see how you feel. This last year has been difficult. And things generally will improve once lockdown is lifted. And when you both feel better things may shift slightly.

You do have choices.

My parents stayed together for the kids. And i wish with every fibre of my being that they didn't. Not violent or abusive. Just devoid of love, affection and laughter and joy. Functional. Because they didn't make each other happy i felt my whole life that it is my responsibility. Thats a lot of pressure. And now they need a lot of support in retirement as they don't support each other. I knew my parents didn't love each other and were different to everyone else's as a child and it made me very sad. I feel guilty whenever i am happy. Because they are not. My mum regrets it now.

She supported me to leave my marriage because she wanted a better life for me.

Leaving is hard. But marching to the beat of your own drum and dropping a dead weight is life changing. I was happy alone but met a kindred spirit a few years later. My children have coped well. Everyone including my exh are happy and we all get on.

If we were to split DH would be very angry and upset and would go on the attack. He describes himself as ‘vindictive’ if anyone hurts him.

Yes well tell him two can play at that game and he'd better look out. This type of bully and coward always backs down in the end.

"I talked it over with my parents (not the sex part) and they are of the opinion that I just have to stay until the children are at least 18".

Then what?.

Why did you go to them?. You are an adult with agency, you do not need their approval.

Did you not question why and why they thought this?. Also this is your marriage and life, not theirs and what is happening to you does not directly affect them. Therefore they are not acting in your best interests either but their own. They probably are also thinking about what other people may think of them (they won't give a monkeys).

@minmooch just reading your comment im glad it worked out
I have been reading all comments as they are also relevant to my situation
How old were your dc when you left?

My university flatmates parents waited for her to finish school before separating. She was devastated and felt her whole childhood was a lie. She dropped out and developed mental health issues. It took years for her to get over it. Why do you think that your DC will be better able to cope at 18?

How I hate it when men say they will not use condoms - OK, don't have a vasectomy if he's too scared, but to simply accept no sex for years because he can't be arsed to use a condom is utterly ridiculous. He's happy for you to pump yourself full of hormones.

But I do understand your reluctance to break up the home. It would seem that otherwise you sort of get along; and it does not sound as though you are desperate for a sex life and that this is a total deal breaker. Leaving is hugely disruptive to everyone's lives, especially the contact arrangements for the children.

Only you can decide where the balance lies in all this; and I wish you lots of luck in finding the right way forward for you.

OP, please go back and read *twatterati 's post a few pages ago. It was spot on.

Don' t stay because you are afraid your H will be vindictive if you split. That is letting fear rule your life choices. This is coercive behaviour on his part - you are changing your actions based on fear of his reactions.

I work in this area, and I see over and over again situations where parents stay together for the kids, and the kids are damaged as adults. Your kids will be more aware than you know.

You only live once.

Kids learn from the models we give them. Your marriage is the model they are being given as a normal marriage.

Would you be happy for your daughter if her adult relationship mirrored yours?

I left my exDH 3 years ago. My situation was not as extreme as yours, but it was a distant and separate relationship and had been for years. He was a very shouty man.

My DC were devastated. It was very hard. ExDH inflicted all his emotional angst on the DC and guilt tripped them at every turn. For the first 2 years he convinced them that there had been nothing wrong with our relationship, and I had to deal with them repeatedly telling me this and asking why I wouldn't go back. It's only in the last year or so that they have started admitting (a bit) that this is not the whole story.

I was also over emotional and guilt tripped them sometimes. No one is able to get through a fully contested divorce/ children situation and behave honourably all the way through.

The finances were difficult and only just sorted out after 3 years. It has been much much harder than I anticipated. Something precipitated it (not an affair) and without that - and with no idea in advance of how hard it would be - I don't know if I'd still have been there 3 years later slowly wilting away inside. Possibly I would.

You could stay, OP. It's lonely and dispiriting, but it sounds possible. It is not easier to break off when children are older - even over 18. And as a PP said, many then feel their childhood was a lie.

I don't regret it AT ALL. Even though it was a shitstorm greater than I ever anticipated. There is a new life out there over the many years ahead of you, whether you meet someone else or not.

It will not be immediate, and my experience was that the process was hard and disruptive, and not just on me. A point frequently minimised by the LTB brigade.

But, for me it really has brought rewards. I do wish you well whatever you decide.

Ps I got on very well with the coil. No periods is a joy!

Bored - how old were your children if you don’t mind my asking? Does he have them 50% of the time?
I feel as thought if DH were to leave the dc and I could stay in this house largely unaffected. Day to day I think pretty much so. However he’d never leave and I know it would be unfair to expect him to do so.

OP stop being such a martyr. It’s a travesty that the bar is so pathetically low for what constitutes an okay/acceptable man and relationship - “not abusive” should be the bare minimum you expect. Your needs and happiness matter.

I’m not convinced he isn’t abusive or at least has some traits. He sounds like a monumentally selfish cunt anyway - sex is all about him and his sensations, his needs, his frustrations. What about you? Why doesn’t he care how it feels for you or your pleasure? He’s never given you oral sex in the whole time you’re together or, by the sounds of it, prioritised your pleasure in any way at all. Why do you think that’s acceptable? Sex is not something you lie back and have done to you for a man’s benefit.

He ‘gets vindictive’ when angry. This isn’t acceptable or normal adult behaviour. He’s not a child unable to control his emotions. Just because he doesn’t shout all the time doesn’t mean shouting sometimes is acceptable. In fact, you don’t have to justify any of his behaviours. You’d rather not be married to someone like him and that is VALID. Why do you seem to think your needs and wants are bottom of the pile?

You aren’t obliged to stay in this relationship for the benefit of other people. I know that myself and a few of my friends feel like our lives would’ve been much better if our parents separated so I don’t know why you’re not listening to me on that and saying all children are affected by divorce. But frankly, even if they are, tough shit! It’s not their relationship. They’ll get over it and as they get older they’ll come to understand their mother is a person in her own right with needs and wants that don’t always include them. They don’t have to like it, but they’ll have to accept it and I think leaving a bad relationship and showing them you, a woman, can put yourself top of the hierarchy is an important message to send. As for your parents it’s none of their business whatsoever.

But that would a be hammered out.. Perhaps with a mediator? If you knew that could be done, would you think differently? If so well you know what your real feeling is and it's the practicalities and acknowledged adjustment difficulties for your dc. If I didn't have dc I'd be gone, it's not a small thing but your life, your needs and your happiness are important too. They would eventually get a happier mum, I know my energy lifts when alone.. You might be similar? You are so young still there's a better life out there.

Oh for gods sake - you Obviously need to leave - it sounds horrible - don’t get a coil - the relationship is dead - your not going to fix the sex life

You are in your 30s - that’s still young! Loads of time to have a lovely enjoyable life - your kids will be fine - maybe you will meet someone else

Life is short and you are wasting yours in a miserable marriage

What if he meets someone else to have sex with without a condom and leaves you high and dry??

He isn't happy not having sex else he wouldn't have pestered for having sex on safe days. For all you know he may have been using escorts to satisfy that need hence no longer asking you?

You have had said you are distant and not connected - is the type of relationship you want your DC to have? You are teaching them that is the best to expect, oh and a man that is vindictive and shouts at their DV

"although given my age it’s probably not likely my cycles are still regular and normal so it’s possible."

What isn't likely, pregnancy? Sorry to worry you but you're only late 30s, pregnancy is a very real possibility! Don't risk it if it isn't soemthing you want.

They were 12, 14 & 19. As to contact, I've probably ended up with less than 50% - maybe 40% overall. Separation combined with teenagers is not that happy a combination. The only advantage is that you have to deal with the exDH for a shorter period of time than if they were younger.

It's been quite fluid, but I moved out and the kids gravitate more to the house they know in difficult times. My eldest had left home so contact not so much the issue for her. My youngest is mostly living with me now.

I knew I had to move out, and I did have the means, as he never would.

This sounds absolutely awful. I agree it must be very hard to make big changes during lockdown but you can leave.
You can get a divorce. It will be hard but it can be done.

Understand that your confidence and self-esteem must be low because of this, but if you make a terrifying decision that is right for you then you feel better about yourself. I know this is true. You might be sitting in a rented house with your possessions in a carrier bag, but if you KNOW it was the right decision, in alignment with your values then you will feel better. Maybe not immediately, but it will flow.

You just erase yourself living in a relationship like this. don't do that.

@Littlesthobo84

They are 5 and 12. I don’t want to hurt DH either. I just need to wait it out. I might never meet anyone else, my children could be very unhappy and I’ve hurt DH into the bargain. Four out of four of us unhappy - currently it’s only 1/4. It’s sensible to stay.

So what if you never meet anybody else!

I'm very happy single and I am reading this pitying you. Sorry, I don't mean to be cruel to make my point, but I have freedom, my own house, job, I don't have a weirdo in the bed next to me, I am excited about my future.

Why would you imagine being single is worse than being in an utterly shit relationship? That is a question that you should ask yourself and then think carefully about the answer and that will be a good starting point for where to ''do the work''

If we were to help you to stay, we’d be doing him a favour rather than you.

It’s clear you’re not ready to leave yet - fine - but you need to do some work on yourself to make yourself stronger. Because when you do leave, you can’t leave with nothing & leave him with everything. You need a little fire in you first. Start with that. Not just filling the days - working on you. Building you up.

OP, it’s clear you’re not ready to change your way of thinking from “how I make it work to stay” to “how I make it work when I leave”, but I really hope you will be.

I couldn’t read this and not share my experience of growing up with parents who stayed together but don’t love each other or have an intimate relationship. They presumably did at first, but over the years it fell away and things got worse through my childhood. I KNEW from a very early age that neither were happy on a day to day basis. I noticed the lack of affection, the lack of care and kindness, or even basic consideration really - my mum shrinking away from my dad, the petty sniping, the constant bloody miserable undertone. I compared them to friends' parents who sometimes held hands, or laughed with each other and had cuddles etc and started outright asking my parents why they didn’t. Sure, we got by, I knew I was loved and we had some good times as a family, but those times were far overshadowed by the rest. I used to fantasise about them getting divorced so I didn’t have to live with their contempt for each other, so I didn’t have to tense up every time one of them got stressed and argued. I even used to wish one of them would die, as divorce would never happen. How awful is that? They’re still together now, continuing to not really have much in common, my mum treats my dad like he’s an inconvenience and both will never leave at the cusp of 70, it’s never changing for them. But make no mistake, it has permanently affected how I view my childhood and it has irreparably damaged my feelings for them - I couldn’t wait to get out of that family home, I went to university hundreds of miles away so I wouldn’t be expected to visit, and I never want to spend more than a couple of hours at a time with them now. I think they’re totally clueless about how much I resent them for never having the balls to genuinely put us first and get a divorce instead of forcing me to have a childhood overshadowed by their miserable co-dependence.

You think you can hide it, endure it, cover it up now? How about three more years of being “just a bit depressed”, becoming five years of very depressed, your children increasingly aware of how their Mum and Dad share no affection, no kindness? They see you’re unhappy and wonder why? They may even blame themselves. You are already miserable after this period of time, how do you expect to feel in TEN years of this grinding you down? Do you expect your children to really not notice? I don’t want to sound harsh, but I really think you’re mistaken if you think you won’t be a shell of a person in just another few years, let alone another 12-13 and even, if you believe this is the lesser of two evils.

Hi LittlestHobo, I'm going to take another approach to most of the replies.

Here's what I'm reading: your husband is far from your ideal partner. It is dragging you down. He doesn't show affection, he doesn't give you any sexual attention and uses excuses to avoid it. It's depressing, it's lonely, it's not what you dreamed of. Surviving 12 years of this seems .... impossible but necessary. As the alternatives look worse:you know there are some advantages to staying. Financially it's better. You don't want to lose your home. You are accustomed to dissembling, so the kids havent really noticed you arent really happy and they seem happy enough. You can shield them from his temper better if you stay. You want to be with your kids 100% of the time, not share them with an angry, uncooperative Ex.

I've been in a very similar situation, although my DD was younger at the time. I decided to stay. I got extremely close to leaving. So I'm going to give you some tips.

First, you badly need some friends and you need to insist on seeing them regularly. Tell your DH it is not negotiable. Please, stick to female friends. In your vulnerable marital state it would be extremely easy to fall for a friendly man, and adding an emotional affair to your issues will definitely make it more painful.

Second, you need to take regular exercise. I know this seems an unrelated and odd suggestion, but it will raise your spirits immensely, give you confidence, set a good example to your kids. Again, tell DH this is non-negotiable.

There is no need to plead for this "me-time". You simply state, "DH, I'm struggling with my mental health in this marriage at the moment. We aren't as close and happy as we used to be, or as I hoped we would be. I have thought about what would help fill the gaps, and I concluded what I need is X, Y and Z each week. I am counting on your cooperation with childcare. If this doesnt happen, I foresee that within 12 months I will be very depressed and put marriage will go from bad to worse, which is in no one's best interest. So, now we have sorted that out, please reflect and come back to me if there is anything YOU need , to help you feel happier. I see you get angry and frustrated, and I want to help because it is no fun for me or the kids to live with this. So let me help, if i can."

Second, once you have regular exercise, hobbies, friends and social life in place, you need to confront your DH calmly and honestly about the marriage. Tell him, the lack of sex is a huge problem for you, and you need his help to move past this. If he won't have penetrative sex, ask him to satisfy you in other ways - there are MANY more than one way to please a woman.

As an aside, have you considered a Mirena coil? It might work for you both and doesn't seem to have the side effects of the pill.

Thirdly, be aware that nothing will really fill the empty sadness of having a marriage that lacks real companionship and mutually expressed love. But, if you can reduce your depression, if you can stop his angry outbursts, if you can start to improve aspects of your sex life - it is possible it can be enough.

And, if it is NOT enough, or your DH fails to improve and you fail to feel better about everything, then you might need to consider leaving.

In my situation, i had literally rented a home and furnished it - I told DH I was moving out. It took THAT much of a shock to really get him to address his anger, stop stonewalling me and glaring at me. It wasnt an instant fix but we BOTH compromised, we BOTH changed our behaviour. Now, if he is grumpy, I call it out immediately and he changes his demeanour. I don't let him sulk, I don't let him snap or moan at my kids. But equally I don't insist on having the kind of marriage I'd really like, and I put up with more than I ever thought I would.

So, you can take some of these actions alone to start with, but ultimately you have to have serious words with DH and insist on change. At the very least he must know he cannot get away with treating you badly and giving vent to his anger in your own home.

It will be an extremely tough journey. Tougher than a divorce? Maybe. Who knows? But if you want to give it a try, do so.

If you end up leaving your marriage, there's no guarantee whatsoever that you'll be able to meet a better man who would love your children as your husband does (even despite the shouting as we are all only humans, I do shout sometimes at my kids, who doesn't to be honest). That's not to say that it's impossible, of course it is possible, just that the chances are lower than if you were younger and didn't have children. Also a perfect man may very well turn abusive or bad in other ways with time, so you can never really be sure. It's possible that you may end up on your own and regret the divorce, I also agree that of course it will affect your children negatively (from their point of view, you are a happy family). Personally I'd look into how to fix the issue. It's probably not fair on the grand scheme of things, but try and look into getting a coil maybe? It is unfair, yes. But do it for your children, if saving the marriage is what you want to do (which sounds like this is the case).

All the best whatever you decide to do.

'_Help me to stay in my marriage'
Its very difficult for anyone reading this to support the continuation of such a miserable situation.
I did that 12/ 15 year sentence long after we should have separated. Wasted years when you look back. Even my children that are now grown up say we should of split.
The fact that your 5/6 years down the line now with not having sex is testament to that part of your relationship being over.
As you say you no longer want to be intimate with your husband.
Asking people to support and justify a lost cause is completely imotive when the grass is so greener on the other side.
Despite what anyone has suggested your putting forward every reason not to.
I wonder if you were giving out the advice in 12/13 years time you would condemn someone to the same sorry situation.
You clearly doubt your own advice or you wouldn't be here.
I think the first thing to do is to see your GP and get some help with your depression.
Try some counselling or relate to help you put it all in perspective.
Looking at a situation when your depressed just maligns your judgement.

@Mummywith2 my boys were 4. & 5 or 5 & 6.

The first couple of years were tricky between me and ex personally but the kids were happy. We always put them first. No competition about how much time each had with them, always both went to parents eveningsetc. All school reports etc went to both houses so no one parent had information the other didn't. If it were my weekend but their Dads family had an event I never stopped the kids going and vice versa The kids were never used as a bargaining tool.

It wasn't easy, we both had to work hard but the kids were always happy and secure.

We lost our eldest son to cancer a few years later but we were able to co parent well through such distressing times. My ex had was living with his gf (now wife) she proved to be a fantastic step mum and was/still is a wonderful support to me too.

Ex and I make better friends and co parents then we ever did as a married couple. He threatened to leave his job if I left etc. The reality was he wanted to love and provide for his children, kept his job etc. I never said horrid things about him to the kids. And they had those years knowing both parents loved them first and foremost.

It can be done.