Help me stay in my marriage.

[Littlesthobo84]

Just that really.
Late 30s, husband late 40s, it’s ok and plods along. We don’t row. He says he is perfectly happy. We don’t have sex. He won’t use condoms or get a vasectomy - he wants to risk timing. I won’t risk timing because I’ve had two high risk really difficult pregnancies already and although given my age it’s probably not likely my cycles are still regular and normal so it’s possible.
He says either I take the pill or we risk timing and I’ve taken the pill before and don’t want to be on it forevermore. I have migraines with aura and cannot take oestrogen based hormone medication. I took the mini pill for a long time before the children.
I don’t think I even want to have sex with him anyway and presumably it’s mutual because he’s not fussed about the vasectomy that he’s been mentioning for the past six years but not done anything about. We are nearly six years since we last had sex now. God, that’s even worse when written down.
I’m depressed about it, I feel checked out, but I don’t hate him. I care about him. I love my children. They are happy. My life is very separate to DH and always has been but my children are happy.
I just need to wait it out another 12/13 years until dd is 18. Remind me how the grass isn’t greener.

@Fabiofatshaft1 Thank you. Neither myself or my two brothers have had children of our own. We are all over 50 now, so it's not going to happen. Not hard to understand why, unless you are my mother...

@Littlesthobo84 Shouldn't you wish for more for them than 'pretty ok?'

I was fed, lived in a clean house...that's the bare fucking minimum a parent should do for a child. It's akin to saying about a partner 'well he's good because he isn't beating the shit out of me'

Your attitude disgusts me.

@TedMullins & @Littlesthobo84

Nobody has ever suggested you are not good and loving to your children.

But echoing @TedMullins post, children are like sponges, they take in and observe all outward patterns of behaviour and attitudes from their parents, but on a deep psychological level, they also absorb the internal feelings of their parents, whether those emotions are happiness, joy, sadness, sorrow or anger, even if they can’t fully rationalise things or understand.

Let’s look at your children’s role models:

You: A loving mother, who has low self esteem, low self confidence, beaten down by a selfish, abusive husband.

The Father: In your own words at various junctures: He’s shouty, quick tempered ( the children irritate him ), he’s abusive, vindictive, controlling and course.

Your Mother: Hypercritical, non supporting, emotionally abusive.

His Mother: well you can basically juxtapose everything written about the Father to her !!!!

You sound like an intelligent woman, albeit confused and maybe depressed, but come on, are these ‘ role models ‘ really what a reasonable person would want for their children !?

Please, seek professional help.

@noirchatsdeux and @Littlesthobo84

This is sad beyond words. Heartbreaking doesn’t even quantify it........

I hope @Littlesthobo84 takes something from your post and it galvanises her

But alas, I fear she’ll just do more circuling.

Op please seek professional help.

@Littlesthobo84 I have been following this thread in the hopes that you will take some advice from the posters and implement some positive changes in your life.

However, over and over again you say this will affect the children badly.

My parents got divorced when I was 5. I remember being upset for a short period but then ecstatic that I got two Christmases, weekends having adventures with my dad, mummy time during the week. It wasn't the absolute shot show you paint out to be.

My mum then met someone else when I was 6. The relationship was emotionally abusive. I grew up in that environment and overheard her regularly say that she was staying for the 'meal ticket' as without him we would be in a rubbish flat in a rough part of town.
My whole childhood was spent on tenterhooks. The atmosphere changes, though silent, were deafening to me.

To the outside, this wasn't a bad household. We were clothed and fed, warm and well behaved. Inside it was suffocating. I said to my mother that I didn't care about the money, the stuff, the things. I wanted that crap flat with her. I didn't care. I even planned the decorating in my head, it didn't matter, I just wanted her happy.

The damage this has caused me now as an adult, was it worth it for her to stay? No.

Your kids won't thank you. I didn't thank my mum. Remember that.

@Littlesthobo84

They are 5 and 12. I don’t want to hurt DH either. I just need to wait it out. I might never meet anyone else, my children could be very unhappy and I’ve hurt DH into the bargain. Four out of four of us unhappy - currently it’s only 1/4. It’s sensible to stay.

You've made your mind up already. I'm not sure what else you want anyone to say?

Your mother in particular has a lot to answer for. Your dad enabled his wife in doing that to you and has also failed you abjectly as a parent.

Do read this article as well:-www.bethanywebster.com/blog/we-cant-save-our-mothers-from-their-pain/

I would also be suggesting you read "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward as well as finding a BACP registered therapist. There's a lot to unpick here and your parents, particularly your mother (your dad has merely enabled her further), have done you great emotional harm. This dysfunctional stuff can go down the generations and if you do not act for yourself this will affect your children in their lives. I often ask the question, "what did you learn about relationships when you were growing up?" and this is why.

The toxic dynamic you grew up with is still affecting you markedly to this very day. Sadly for your kids too, that dynamic you grew up with is one that is now being shown to them. Its of no real surprise to me whatsoever that you married this man, that is what you were set up good and proper by your mother to do. In this she was aided and abetted by your dad. Their own relationship is a toxic codependent dance.

Divorcing this man will likely be acrimonious precisely because he is abusive towards you and in turn your kids. This does not mean to say that because of this factor you should stay with him. You get something out of this relationship still and this along with your mother's conditioning of you keeps you within it. You are afraid to rock the boat and make decisions for your own self because she is always at the forefront of your mind. You are on a fruitless quest re seeking her approval even as an adult because she will never give it to you.

You are also mired in fear, obligation and guilt and will remain so until you yourself decide to break free of all these people who have put you in their emotional chains.

@Littlesthobo84

I suppose that weighing it up I feel it would hurt them more to leave because it would be SO unpleasant and SO difficult - I cannot see us co parenting on any basis. It would just be awful. One of dh’s friends split from their wives recently and he said he’d have made it as difficult as possible for her if it were him. She has stayed in the family home with their dc and DH said there’s no way he’d have that. I said it was better for their dc and he said - who cares, she wouldn’t be getting any help from me, I’d be making it as difficult as I could.

@Littlesthobo84, I know this is an old post but going back to this: I think we can pretty much guarantee that he said this for your benefit, to keep you in your place.

The thing is, if you do split up it's not just down to him working out what happens next. He can try making it as difficult as possible, but he doesn't wield unlimited power in that situation.

Leaving is worse for OP but better for children.

Staying is better for OP but worse for children.

That's why she's staying. It's simply the easy option for her.

I know, I don't know why I posted again, I promised myself not to come here again 🤣

@Littlesthobo84 you talk a lot about your children being "happy" and 3/4 being happy and even about you having a happy childhood. I was in my 30s and a year into counselling when I realised my "happy"childhood had actually been a s**t show of emotional abuse and had resulted in me (subconsciously) making some shocking decisions as an adult that were seriously self destructive.

I had known all along some siblings thought our childhood had been awful and I thought that was their fault for being outspoken and rude etc. I have another sibling who still thinks we had a happy childhood but is hitting retirement age and still hasn't had a healthy adult relationship but would never make the connection.

My point is that superficially you are probably doing your best like your mother would claim she is doing her best but as an adult you have to look in the mirror and stand over your decisions. I knew I could let history repeat itself and be a "good"mother to my kids without addressing all the generations of emotional baggage that I was subconsciously throwing at them. After 2 years in counselling and being 10 years down the road I now feel comfortable talking to my now teens and telling them my mother was awful and also balance by telling them she probably didn't know any better. I also openly tell them I am trying to do things better for their sakes and mine. I am a genuinely happy person. I get LOADS of things wrong as a parent but as soon as I realise I own it and try to make it right (and inevitably make more mistakes the next day!!)

Can you look your children in the eye and honestly say you are trying your best to be a better parent than what you had? Can you honestly tell them you are happy? THAT more than anything is the best result I got out of counselling being able to be honest with my children which is essentially being honest with myself. I am happy and I am trying (and failing) but continuously trying.

@WallaceinAnderland

Leaving is worse for OP but better for children.

Staying is better for OP but worse for children.

That's why she's staying. It's simply the easy option for her.

No it really isnt though. It may in the short term be difficult for the children but they adapt. Living in that environment isnt healthy

Staying is the easy option, the way out will be difficult and potentially awful but if she does it will be better

My grandparents had a toxic relationship but they were married in 1951 so staying together was what they did. He died 5 years before she did and my mum realised that her entire relationship with her mum was clouded by their (jointly) toxic relationship. And she finally got to see her real mum when they were in there 60s and 80s. And there is a sadness that she never got that before. Because her personality was so entwined with the relationship that she had.

He died 5 years before she did and my mum realised that her entire relationship with her mum was clouded by their (jointly) toxic relationship. And she finally got to see her real mum when they were in there 60s and 80s. And there is a sadness that she never got that before.

My dad's now 92, so I've given up on ever seeing my mum carefree and happy. For years, I fantasised about us doing things together. Now, on top of everything else she must cope daily with his regression into senile dementia (not too bad so far, but still).

OP, I may be projecting my own experience onto yours (which is what makes these threads such an irresistible minefield!), but is it possible that you've been infantilised throughout your life and never actually had to step up as the adult taking charge of a situation? If so, then maybe that's your next developmental task in life.

[quote heretohelpGB]**@Littlesthobo84* you talk a lot about your children being "happy" and 3/4 being happy and even about you having a happy childhood. I was in my 30s and a year into counselling when I realised my "happy"childhood had actually been a s*t show of emotional abuse and had resulted in me (subconsciously) making some shocking decisions as an adult that were seriously self destructive.

I had known all along some siblings thought our childhood had been awful and I thought that was their fault for being outspoken and rude etc. I have another sibling who still thinks we had a happy childhood but is hitting retirement age and still hasn't had a healthy adult relationship but would never make the connection.

My point is that superficially you are probably doing your best like your mother would claim she is doing her best but as an adult you have to look in the mirror and stand over your decisions. I knew I could let history repeat itself and be a "good"mother to my kids without addressing all the generations of emotional baggage that I was subconsciously throwing at them. After 2 years in counselling and being 10 years down the road I now feel comfortable talking to my now teens and telling them my mother was awful and also balance by telling them she probably didn't know any better. I also openly tell them I am trying to do things better for their sakes and mine. I am a genuinely happy person. I get LOADS of things wrong as a parent but as soon as I realise I own it and try to make it right (and inevitably make more mistakes the next day!!)

Can you look your children in the eye and honestly say you are trying your best to be a better parent than what you had? Can you honestly tell them you are happy? THAT more than anything is the best result I got out of counselling being able to be honest with my children which is essentially being honest with myself. I am happy and I am trying (and failing) but continuously trying. [/quote]
I also have a sibling whose whole life has been damaged by the toxicity in our childhood. He has never had a relationship and is now in his mid fifties.

So many wise, insightful posts on here.
Thank you people 🙏
@noirchatsdeux
@Fabiofatshaft1
@heretohelpGB

But if you read the studies around children from separated families they aren’t good either

My parents were like your family.

They finally got divorced when I was about 7, my mother checked back in and our house was full of laughter, we didn’t have much in the way of holidays or clothes, but we all loved each other and learnt new skills, being self reliant, practical, making do, we made each other laugh, because we no longer had to creep around him.

We had a supportive mother and all did well at school, youngest sister obtained 11 A*! None of us drink or take drugs, none of us got in trouble with the police, all now home owners with own families, what’s wrong with that?

@billy1966 Thank you. What makes me so angry about the OP is that her tone, attitude is so like my mother's...that martyring, "I'm sacrificing my happiness for my children' attitude which is such a load of shit.

She just doesn't want to do the hard work necessary, wants to remain the 'good guy'. Cares more about what other people think of her than her own children. Be the 'c**t on the cross' martyr that my mother was. I suppose it's Easter, so a good time for it...

I am continuing to check in here for the great insights and hindsights.. Unfortunately Fabio tho I absolutely understand your frustration, I'll put money on tough love pushing op away rather than forcing her to take stock. Just a feeling I have. Op, I hope a week on you have done one thing where you have asserted your own need or preference and maybe been more mindful for those times you don't as a regular overly tolerant, approval seeking thing?

I don't understand the responses, it's not like there are thousands of extraordinary, handsome and sexy men out there just waiting for op to divorce and dying to make her happy. How many divorced women that are mothers really find happiness quickly after leaving? Don't forget that there is a reason the op married her dh, she might have a type and may end up with someone similar after divorcing him.
It's almost a technical problem: what contraception should the op and her husband use in order to have a go at reviving their sex life? And everyone is just repeating "leave op, leave",no constructive advice, no attempt at fixing things

Perhaps finding another man isn’t the be all and end all? Perhaps being happy in herself and free from the strain of accommodating a lazy selfish husband will be enormously liberating?
One thing is for sure, if she stays she will never be happy. He doesn’t want to change.

@juliastone honestly the main tone I am picking up is not that she should leave to find another man. In all honesty I don't think the OP is strong enough to leave yet. And if she did leave now without some serious counselling unfortunately I think it is true that she would meet someone very similar and fall back into the same unhealthy toxic cycle. The issue is mainly about why she has chosen (consciously or sub consciously) to be in this type of situation and what affect this will have on her kids long term. These relationships and dynamics don't happen in a vacuum.

@juliastone It’s feels very conditioned to think that someone upon divorce a woman should be looking for someone else to make them happy. Look to make yourself happy perhaps. I’ve been divorced 4 years, no man, never ever been happier in my life.

@juliastone

I don't understand the responses, it's not like there are thousands of extraordinary, handsome and sexy men out there just waiting for op to divorce and dying to make her happy. How many divorced women that are mothers really find happiness quickly after leaving? Don't forget that there is a reason the op married her dh, she might have a type and may end up with someone similar after divorcing him. It's almost a technical problem: what contraception should the op and her husband use in order to have a go at reviving their sex life? And everyone is just repeating "leave op, leave",no constructive advice, no attempt at fixing things

Finding happiness has nothing to do with finding another man. It’s perfectly possible to be happy alone, especially after an abusive relationship

Of course it's possible and probably easier to be happy when single, I was just reacting to all the pps' comments that implied that the op is missing out on sex and soul-mate material by staying with her dh. It just looks like the posts are coming from people who are projecting a bit and are too quick to file for a virtual divorce of someone else. Life is not that black and white.

No sex and no soulmate or life with someone who is disrespectful and abusive?? Hmm.... let me think!
@juliastone what, for you yourself, is the minimum you'd settle for in a cohabiting relationship??