March 2021 Well we took you to Stately Homes thread

[Sicario]

It's now March 2021, and the Stately Home is still open to visitors.

Picking up from previous thread
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/relationships/4030633-September-2020-Well-we-took-you-to-Stately-Homes-thread?pg=40

Forerunning threads:
December 2007
March 2008
August 2008
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May 2009
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March 2011
November 2011
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November-December 2019

Welcome to the Stately Homes Thread.

This is a long running thread which was originally started up by 'pages' see original thread here (December 2007)

So this thread originates from that thread and has become a safe haven for Adult children of abusive families.

The title refers to an original poster's family who claimed they could not have been abusive as they had taken her to plenty of Stately Homes during her childhood!

One thing you will never hear on this thread is that your abuse or experience was not that bad. You will never have your feelings minimised the way they were when you were a child, or now that you are an adult. To coin the phrase of a much respected past poster Ally90;

'Nobody can judge how sad your childhood made you, even if you wrote a novel on it, only you know that. I can well imagine any of us saying some of the seemingly trivial things our parents/ siblings did to us to many of our real life acquaintances and them not understanding why we were upset/ angry/ hurt etc. And that is why this thread is here. It's a safe place to vent our true feelings, validate our childhood/ lifetime experiences of being hurt/ angry etc by our parents behaviour and to get support for dealing with family in the here and now.'

Most new posters generally start off their posts by saying; but it wasn't that bad for me or my experience wasn't as awful as x,y or z's.

Some on here have been emotionally abused and/ or physically abused. Some are not sure what category (there doesn't have to be any) they fall into.

NONE of that matters. What matters is how 'YOU' felt growing up, how 'YOU' feel now and a chance to talk about how and why those childhood experiences and/ or current parental contact, has left you feeling damaged, falling apart from the inside out and stumbling around trying to find your sense of self-worth.

You might also find the following links and information useful, if you have come this far and are still not sure whether you belong here or not.

'Toxic Parents' by Susan Forward.

I started with this book and found it really useful.

Here are some excerpts:

"Once you get going, most toxic parents will counterattack. After all, if they had the capacity to listen, to hear, to be reasonable, to respect your feelings, and to promote your independence, they wouldn't be toxic parents. They will probably perceive your words as treacherous personal assaults. They will tend to fall back on the same tactics and defences that they have always used, only more so.

Remember, the important thing is not their reaction but your response. If you can stand fast in the face of your parents' fury, accusations, threats and guilt-peddling, you will experience your finest hour.

Here are some typical parental reactions to confrontation:

"It never happened". Parents who have used denial to avoid their own feelings of inadequacy or anxiety, will undoubtedly use it during confrontation, to promote their version of reality. They'll insist that your allegations never happened, or that you're exaggerating. They won't remember, or they will accuse you of lying.

YOUR RESPONSE: Just because you don't remember, doesn't mean it didn't happen".

"It was your fault." Toxic parents are almost never willing to accept responsibility for their destructive behaviour. Instead, they will blame you. They will say that you were bad, or that you were difficult. They will claim that they did the best that they could but that you always created problems for them. They will say that you drove them crazy. They will offer as proof, the fact that everybody in the family knew what a problem you were. They will offer up a laundry list of your alleged offences against them.

YOUR RESPONSE: "You can keep trying to make this my fault, but I'm not going to accept the responsibility for what you did to me, when I was a child".

"I said I was sorry what more do you want?" Some parents may acknowledge a few of the things that you say but be unwilling to do anything about it.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate your apology, but that is just a beginning. If you're truly sorry, you'll work through this with me, to make a better relationship."

"We did the best we could." Some parents will remind you of how tough they had it while you were growing up and how hard they struggled. They will say such things as "You'll never understand what I was going through," or "I did the best I could". This particular style of response will often stir up a lot of sympathy and compassion for your parents. This is understandable, but it makes it difficult for you to remain focused on what you need to say in your confrontation. The temptation is for you once again to put their needs ahead of your own. It is important that you be able to acknowledge their difficulties, without invalidating your own.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I understand that you had a hard time, and I'm sure that you didn't hurt me on purpose, but I need you to understand that the way you dealt with your problems really did hurt me"

"Look what we did for you." Many parents will attempt to counter your assertions by recalling the wonderful times you had as a child and the loving moments you and they shared. By focusing on the good things, they can avoid looking at the darker side of their behaviour. Parents will typically remind you of gifts they gave you, places they took you, sacrifices they made for you, and thoughtful things they did. They will say things like, "this is the thanks we get" or "nothing was ever enough for you."

YOUR RESPONSE: "I appreciate those things very much, but they didn't make up for ...."

"How can you do this to me?" Some parents act like martyrs. They'll collapse into tears, wring their hands, and express shock and disbelief at your "cruelty". They will act as if your confrontation has victimized them. They will accuse you of hurting them, or disappointing them. They will complain that they don't need this, they have enough problems. They will tell you that they are not strong enough or healthy enough to take this, that the heartache will kill them. Some of their sadness will, of course, be genuine. It is sad for parents to face their own shortcomings, to realise that they have caused their children significant pain. But their sadness can also be manipulative and controlling. It is their way of using guilt to try to make you back down from the confrontation.

YOUR RESPONSE: "I'm sorry you're upset. I'm sorry you're hurt. But I'm not willing to give up on this. I've been hurting for a long time, too."

Helpful Websites

Alice Miller
Personality Disorders definition
Daughters of narcissistic mothers
Out of the FOG
You carry the cure in your own heart
Help for adult children of child abuse
Pete Walker
The Echo Society
There are also one or two less public offshoots of Stately Homes, PM AttilaTheMeerkat or toomuchtooold for details.

Some books:

Toxic Parents by Susan Forward
Homecoming by John Bradshaw
Will I ever be good enough? by Karyl McBride
If you had controlling parents by Dan Neuharth
When you and your mother can't be friends by Victoria Segunda
Children of the self-absorbed by Nina Brown - check reviews on this, I didn't find it useful myself.
Recovery of your inner child by Lucia Capacchione
Childhood Disrupted by Donna Jackson Nazakawa

This final quote is from smithfield posting as therealsmithfield:

"I'm sure the other posters will be along shortly to add anything they feel I have left out. I personally don't claim to be sorted but I will say my head has become a helluva lot straighter since I started posting here. You will receive a lot of wisdom but above all else the insights and advice given will 'always' be delivered with warmth and support."

Coconut

What does your DD think of her nan's behaviour?. Is your DD aware that she is also being manipulated by your mother here?. You're right; as she cannot get to you she goes to your child and pumps her for information. Access to your child by your mother needs to be denied.

The problem I feel even with sending a crap card for a toxic parent is that it is a response and to such disordered of thinking people that is the reward. They know they have you still then.

Coconut, its not that they didn't believe me, they knew that he had done it but they thought it didn't matter, they saw it as a situation in which a malicious woman (i.e. me) had recklessly tried to get a man i.e. the paedophile sent to prison
In my parents eyes they did the right thing by shutting me down and saving a man from prison.
The implication being that I am a non person who doesn't matter😕
well now they are non-people who don't matter, I don't care now, I'm relieved not to have to deal with them!

hello. Long time member and lurker. I've just rejoined with a new username as a few months back I deleted my old account after feeling a bit paranoid - but been on here 10 years +. Thanks to this thread I realised several years ago that my mum is a narcissist/ignoring kind, and my dad is an enabler - they are both very co-dependent, very, as in no individual friends or interests. What has muddied the water a bit is that a) my mum is probably autistic, b) my kids love them and we have no other family, and one of my dc is disabled c)my DPs family are much crapper than mine and DP's dad is also a narcissist but a evil kind, and they live on a different continent so very easy to be grey rock.. but taken a while to get there. DP thinks they aren't that bad. (DPs family make it easy as they don't give a sh*t about us). d) my DB also lives overseas and is also a bit of a self centred twat - I am their only relative here in UK/alive.

My parents are in late 70s, fit and well and did have a sort of life pre-covid, but they don't have many friends and also a couple of weird hobbies (can't say what as too outing). My dm's dm (my dg) is still alive, and very very old - just over 100. She is also a narc in all likelyhood and had a bit of a weird childhood but is an ok person, we get on well and she has always been very popular unlike my DM who rubs everyone up the wrong way . Both her dc (my dm and du) are self centered individuals, but my dm does all of her care (I have to say this is quite transactional, limited and very resentfully done, and bare minimum... Dnan live alone unbelievably at her age... she prob shouldn't!) and my dm's db/my du does bugger all and lives overseas and is also 'golden child'. I am the family scapegoat. Am expected to organise and entertain the whole family, do Christmas, birthdays etc (none of them do anything for my birthday ever - rarely ever even a present, just £30 in an envelope, they also do same for my DC and I have to get the prezzie with it)… why you might ask do I do this??! mainly for my dc, as they don't have any other family, and because my DS is disabled, we have limited friends too, and i've wanted them to have normal Christmases and birthdays and a happy family, and if I keep quiet and play the game it is (or looks like it is). if I have ever kicked off about this - and recently I have a few times, I am shouted at and given silent treatment. over the last few years I have also come to realise that my mum sabotages loads of things and ruins them, or if the days don't go to plan (i.e not totally fun for them) they have a mood and stomp off, my dm's mood drives the day. They take my dc for a few days a couple of times a year, but honestly it is about them, and now my DD is a teen, this is becoming a bind for them, and they're losing interest. Then sometimes they call me, engineer rows and hang up on me. I've tried so hard to be grey rock, but they do push my buttons, and twice in last few months I have ended up sending them some close to the bone text messages - they never apologise... this is the current situation. They are refusing to give me a date to see the dc and using 'restrictions' as the reasons, but this is bollocks. Kids are sad as not seen them since Oct and expecting an Easter meet, but Dps are holding us on a thread as they are awaiting news on their 'hobby' and want to prioritise this, in the middle of all of this is the birthday of very elderly DGNan, and they are resentful of this date too.... - I have called them out on this, and said fine, i'll just see DGnan with the kids, and this has upset them too, and so they have called me, shouted at me, and the current situation is that they are now after (having me react and sent a couple of nasty messages - I regret!), giving me the silent treatment again... this will predictably follow up in a week or so by my ddad calling and shouting at me, and me having to make up and organise another family event that suits them (note they have done nothing nice to keep in touch throughout lockdown!)… I can't keep going round and round in this cycle I am nearly 50! I have told them how I feel, they are angry/ignored (of course), and so it continues. It has been like this for 20 years/forever. What do I do now? Can I bring this back into some kind of control so my kids still see their beloved dgs and they stop hurting me, or is this doomed for ever? (note they have always been like this, were terrible growing up, consistently let me down over the years, and have been low level terrible, but sometimes good too.... I know this is them and they aren't going to change, but I don't think NC is possible). Help! and thanks... sorry for the giant message....

Hi Curtains😊
Can I bring this back into some kind of control so my kids still see their beloved dgs and they stop hurting me, or is this doomed for ever?
possibly but the minute they feel that you are in control they will fight tooth and nail to get on top of the situation, in their minds they are rightfully the highest ranking people and they will do everything they can to maintain this position
Every interaction with them will be a power struggle, you may eventually come to dominate but at what price?
I would back away slowly, gradually disengage ....but you seem unwilling to do that?

I agree I need to disengage. Been trying to find a counsellor to help. I've not really accepted that they'll never be there for me as they throw me bones...and because of my situation I don't have anyone else and I think I've accepted crappy support and crums of happy families as tye reality is too scary and lonely... and I felt bad for the dc. Also my dm has long played me off my dg and I don't want to put my dc in that situation. They want a relationship with them. But its true I have to facilitate that and its a lot of work on top of a disabled dc and my job and keeping them happy. It's time to stop. I do also feel jts very sad for old people who have no family. I'm well aware that could be because they've been ars#eholes to them... but those very sad and lonely old people... at some point one of my parents will be this...and that time is coming soon... certainly in 10 years. ...

@Ulteregome Jesus, that’s disgusting. Just throw you to the wolves for the sake of saving face. Off the scale. I’m so sorry.

@curtainsforyou2 don’t hold out for your parents to change. They won’t. If you feel it’s important for your kids to have relationship with them, then do it on your terms, be transactional and keep your distance. They won’t apologise as they see you as the scapegoat. Unfortunately, you have to accept that you have no status with them - they are the shits here - but you DO have the power to be the person you are. Ignore, ignore, IGNORE. I’ve found this is a great place to left off steam and get reassurance that it’s not you, it IS them. Keep them at arms length and this will keep you safer and happier.

I’m so fucked off with The Hag. She’s malignant.

MM sent out an all family email on Sun updating them. Not one reply. He did a Facebook post, very few family responses. He tagged me so I’ve taken that off. I don’t want to be publicly involved in some pity party. He made the mistake of telling her about the all family email/FB so every minute she’s asking if anyone has asked about her. This is entirely normal behaviour No, they haven’t because you’ve isolated yourself and didn’t even ask about your nephew who was in ICU with Covid, such ego. Grandchildren are never rung.

MM is so conflicted about her - right now, she’s playing nice, subtle undermining of me, whispered phone conversations about me with brother in law. Last night, I chilled in my bedroom whilst they watched films. No room on the sofa, although MM would shift if I asked him to. She’s loving it.

She wants us to eat at the table with her at lunch time - more opportunity to whine because we’re excluding her (we are grabbing lunch at our desks). and this is the woman who eats on her armchair spilling food on her clothes at home. We don’t have time as we work flat out. I’ve pointed this out today. Lunch when it’s convenient for us as the shopping was delivered today. Total subtle strop as if I don’t feed her properly - three choices of food. I simply don’t have time to cook a proper meal.

This afternoon there will be the call to social services. I can’t bear it. I have a banging headache. MAKE IT STOP. I will tell her about the call to remind that this is a temporary measure and she goes ASAP.

She said to the social worker that she WOULD get new furniture for the slum - and pigs might fly - and, of course, is backtracking on this so she’s got ammunition for more conflict. I’m telling BIL - who thought he’d tell her she’d won the Fucking lottery (why are they playing the game and indulging this bollocke) to buy it and Mr Monkey to not bother. Utterly pointless and it’s more conflict (which she loves).

On top of all this my dp's father's left 2 phone messages in a fortnight... this is the man who didn't call us at Christmas (or send anythimg). Messages say 'why aren't you calling me?'... his brother just died so he's trying to reel my partner back in...to hurt them. Dp is ignoring...
Its like spring has kicked all the shielding baby-boomer narcissist parents back into action from hibernation!

Sorry, telling both BIL and partner not to pursue buying of furniture. Utterly pointless and creating more anguish.

curtains

Sadly the usual truism again applies; if the parents are too toxic/batshit/difficult for YOU to deal with its the same deal for your children as well. It is also not possible to have any sort of a relationship with a narcissist.

Like many adult children of narcissists you have hoped against both hope and your experience of them to the contrary that they would behave better with your children. They really have not behaved well re them at all because of the ways in which you as their mother is treated. Better all round really to have no grandparents in the picture than to be at all around their toxic ways, children do need grandparents but emotionally healthy ones. None of your family of origin are emotionally healthy individuals so are therefore not emotionally safe to be around. Your parents and grandmother have not changed, this is who they are but its not your fault they are like this. You did not make them this way.

You are the scapegoat in your family of origin and as a result your children are also scapegoated. Your parents want to see your children because they see them as a source of narcissistic supply and they can use them to get back at you, their supposed errant daughter. It takes a village to raise a child and I would urge you to widen your own social circle. Your children need decent role models in their lives, not toxic relatives who drain them and you.

You absolutely right in that you do need to disengage from them all. I would suggest you have a look at the BACP website and find a therapist you can work with. Interview such people carefully and at length before deciding to go with any particular one; you need to find someone who has no familial bias about keeping families together despite the presence of mistreatment.

Thanks @AttilaTheMeerkat

I've read your advice earlier m the thread and you're right.

I know my dm can't help it...she's emotionally damaged. And scapegoat is definitely my role. Must be because I'm the only one she can do that too, and oldest.

When I was younger I went a good few years keeping them more at arms length because I was very busy with just living lifestyle i was overseas for a short while.
. ...but we did used to have huge rows when she visited and she'd stomp off. She was also frightened of my previous dp just because they had the measure of her! I.dont actually know what she wants from me . But it shouldn't be anything should it? She's got very low self esteem and is not a likeable person. Its quite sad really. If I stop expecting anything then things will be better...but I've been unable to deaden that emotion. Reality is we have struggled to make friends due to dc 2 challenging behaviour and are now isolated. If life was full of people who cared, I'd care less. We're so cut off as it is. Frightening as actually that's my parents too...so fearful of becoming like them.
If anyone has any practical guidance to how to withdraw emotionally I'd be very appreciative. Have read a lot online. Forgiveness isn't working as then I take them back and cycle resumes.
Thanks for listening and sorry for hijacking.. sounds like many of you really struggling.

Hi curtains

Your grandmother emotionally harmed her daughter and she your mother has gone onto emotionally harm by meting out the same or very similar treatment to you. Your mother had a choice when it came to you and could have made a positive impact on your life. She chose not to seek help of any kind and chose the low road by doing to you what was done to her.

You are a separate person in your own right and with agency. You also have two qualities that these people lack; empathy and insight. You have not repeated with your kids what your parents and grandmother have done to you. Your mother wants access to your kids so they can be used as narcissistic supply and for you to be her carer in their dotage. She wants you to suffer as she has done with her own mother.

Where are your boundaries at with regards to these people (your parents and grandmother)?. Setting and maintaining boundaries may well be hard for you anyway to do mainly because they've encouraged you to not have any.

Your life is about making you happy, not making them happy. And they will never be happy because they are an empty void.

They're quite distant really...they make everything seem like its me who is asking for them to do this n that..well come to this n that but nothing from them in terms of definite....they reserve the right to not say yes or no... hmmm hadn't thought of it like that (e.g I'm the needy one!).. but then there's a wierd undercurrent of guilt from them too... wierd texts every week or so etc... but all light... mostly ignoring what I said to their questions etc. They haven't invited me to anything ever...I mean like not since I left home in 1993 (notbthat they did then either) ! But they do occasionally ask if I'm organising x y or z... not can I. I may add . So I then go 'do you want me to do xyz'.... so there's one place i can start with. 1. Not apologising for latest 'row', and 2. never organising anything else (this means nothing will happen!)....

Going to Google 'setting boundaries' thank you!

Forgiveness isn't working as then I take them back and cycle resumes
I feel that forgiveness is an unhelpful word, perhaps because it's tied up with 'forgive & forget' ...we feel we have to then act as if the person has not harmed us.
May be it's better try to understand what is driving them, acknowledge that they dont and/or wont understand themselves sufficiently to change their own behaviour. Maybe in a way it's not their fault, but that doesnt mean they get to take shots at you and knock lumps out of you. You have to protect your own wellbeing and make that a priority.

curtains
Hi and I so feel for you. My narc mother has been dead for 5 years and the relief was huge. I had managed to withdraw a bit so will tell you a bit about how it happened!
I am an only child and was very enmeshed/engulfed with NM. Father lovely but an enabler. My problem was I felt utterly responsible for her - well that’s how she brought me up - but I sensed the sad lonely person within her, even as a small child. So as an adult, even though her demands stressed me out and made me angry, I couldn’t bring myself to hurt her further by refusing to play her game. Plus the child within was still pretty frightened of her toxic rages. I might add that these would erupt out of the blue and last for hours, raging at me for pretty well no reason. I would weep all through the night and wake up depressed and exhausted, while she woke up chirpy as anything having disgorged all her poison onto me. Any excuse even when I was an adult.

Thank goodness I found a website like this, with fellow Narc victims, which made me realise it was never my fault but hers, and that in fact, whatever I did for her would never, ever, be enough. So I was diminishing my own life for no reason at all. It was like trying to fill up a bottomless chasm with things that were precious to me and they would be gone forever, uselessly. So my love, my care, my kindness - wasted. In that case I could stop throwing everything down and just toss the odd thing IF I felt like it!

At the same time and greatly daring, when she kicked off, I said I would not listen if she spoke to me like that, and left. The first time my heart was pounding and I got all sweaty with fear but the world didn’t end and bit by bit I got braver.

It certainly made a difference and she began to be a bit more careful about kicking off. You know I think that she saw forbearance as weakness to be walked over. The thing about Narcs is that they don’t see people as they really are, they project their own views and motivations on the world. Hence the accusations and insults on we poor children who have done nothing to deserve them. I grew up thinking I was a distasteful and inadequate person and it was only when I had my own children and saw how sweet they were and how anxious to please, that I thought “well I was like that” and realised I hadn’t deserved any of it.

Don’t know if that helps. All I can say is that when she died we cracked open a bottle of fizz and I felt a great weight fall off my shoulders! I didn’t go NC but stayed very LC and it felt like a duty discharged. I have never missed her for a second.

Thank you @Veronica12345 for sharing that. Really powerful and insightful. And I can feel how hurtful it was. Well done for standing up for yourself.
Its especially difficult when you know your time with someone is finite. I'm mean it's always finite but its not on your mind as much in your 20s. Time is running out. It did occur to me that there would be a small turn out at my mums funeral and that made me so sad. She knows that she's made poor choices. She's not an evil person (my dp's father is..pure manipulation n evil)...
I'm gonna follow your lead and see where it goes... I need to for my own wellbeing as not in a good place and its affecting my relationship too.
@Ulteregome
Thank you... again I totally agree.... tomorrow is a new day.
@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you

@AttilaTheMeerkat it is definetly something that concerns me. My DD is 16 nearly 17 and I have always shielded her from my mother she's never stayed overnight there or really had unaccompanied time with her. I've been very open to DD about how hyoer critical of me she is, never praises etc but I guess because she hasn't been directly on the receiving end her eyes aren't really open. It is a really difficult one.

@Ulteregome

That is just vile and awful. That they knew but protected the paed just awful and poor you. I've no idea what my parents reaction would have been but I doubt they would have believed me they too are and were very concerned about their social standing. How long into adulthood did it take you to cut them off. It took me till about 30 to really realise my mum was a cow and to start talking to my sisters about it. Thank you for telling me your experience xx

@curtains poor you it sounds a bloody nightmare. I may have missed it but do you live near to them. It comes across that so much of your energy is being spent trying to keep your wider family together and happy. I did this for years at the expense of my health. No matter how high you jump or become a 24hr concierge it is never enough. Focus on your own wee nuclear family and fuck the rest of them they don't care. I found that my teens lost interest in gp as hobbies and jobs took over. I bet your direct family love and appreciate you I can't remember the saying but it's where the attention goes the energy goes and where the energy goes the attention goes. Right now your energy and attention is being wasted focus on your close family who love and appreciate yo. Hope you don't think I am preaching but after years of heartache disengaging as much as possible is a huge relief. Much love kxc

@Coconut80 thank you.
They're a couple of hours away so haven't seen them at all for most of the year due to restrictions (except a couple of things I organised!). They have a static caravan (members only place so we can't visit) and go there in the summer so we don't see them then anyway. It's more autumn when my services are required as they don't have many friends and nothing to do.
What you said about the kids really made me sit up and think...yes we can do this slow pulling away. My daughter is a young teen and losing interest already.
One thing I'm really keen on doing is being emotionally available to my children. My mum is not 100% narc, she's also largely emotionally absent. She cannot cope with others emotions/illness... its not just empathy but she just has no capacity to take this on from others.
Getting this right for my kids is what's important now. So difficult for us both when neither of us have had good examples to go forward with.
(Incidentally when I started following this thread a few years ago...not all the time I may add, just now and then... was that going to Stately homes was actually quite a big feature of my childhood and what my parents do with my dc when they have them. They've lifelong NT members, and of course dc are getting to an age when they don't want to do that... my dm as already mentioned that perhaps they wonnt be able to have them stay for much longer. Clearly they can't be arsed to find something the dc would like to do as that would require asking them, and spending money. Yes they're as tight as anything and terrible gift givers).

That's good the distance is in your favour. My kids are older now and it was just gradually them becoming busier and less tolerant of the anti English, Muslim everything rant that comes out their mouths.
With super lc I've just done it very gradually so they don't notice just don't reply so quickly be busy, I bet you are. Don't answer the phone if you think it's them. Don't invite them to Christmas, birthdays etc you know they will just wreck it and it will be really stressful and take you weeks to get over. Keep posting here and you will get wonderful support. It's not easy but it is easier with far less contact with them and also other women who get it. Good luck xxx

Ps I think our parents gave us a lesson in what not to do I like you strive to listen, love and praise the kids instead of ridiculing belittling and criticising. It's quite easy to be kind to your kids isn't it xxx

How long into adulthood did it take you to cut them off
Coconut, I cut the gorgon off in my mid 20's the other one, didnt see through him till my mid 50's, he's much more subtle and controlled, a skilled gaslighter!

to feel shame you had to have been shamed
I found an excellent online therapist who really got the dysfunctional dynamics and thus is one of the first comments they made. I can't say enough just how much having therapy has helped me move out of the cycle. For the first time EVER, I am approaching mother's day with an unchurning stomach and no need to look in the rear view mirror. Christmas last was an absolute revaluation of what what a Christmas could be like. It's the only one I can remember that must be like the ones people with functioning families have. Enough rambling, just a plea..if you are able to access therapy, please, please do it for yourself.

@Coconut80
You're so right ....
And that's what makes us realise their behaviour is so twisted!
What kind of person takes against their own child (even if said child is a very old grown up).... I'm sure non of us could ever imagine doing that to our kids. I can't think of anything and I mean anything that would mean I'd abandon mine and view them as an adversary. It doesn't make sense. But you have to be deep into parenthood before you perhaps realise that.
Thanks everyone this has been so useful.

I'll update if/when my ddad calls to have a go at me for wrecking the plans (my plans they p*ssed on)

Sorry to come into the middle of the conversation - I think tonight I'm going to give the NDV helpline a couple of tries. It feels so overdramatic as the abuse is 99% emotional and therefore potentially all in my head but I just need to get away. If I were to put my selfish, ungrateful head on I would say the one thing my family will not give to me is independence. I'm so ashamed of how I've been for months now, an ungrateful, crazy, volatile person unsure of what is real and what isn't, so infantilised I don't believe I can do anything at all for myself, terrified all the time, even when I sleep I have nightmares. It's so ridiculous, as my mum says she didn't even spank me regularly when I was little so I should think myself lucky but I find myself going out for runs and feeling like the only thing I have power over is hurting myself. I've literally been on a psych ward this year so I must be the crazy one here.
Earlier today, it was my first day back at work, and I suppose I was looking a bit disheartened and my dad said "this is what it feels like, doing your work and feeling like you still have all the chores to do!" Four years ago I was working right at the top of my game in the City, living alone, completely independent. I know what it's like ffs. Even three years ago I was working two jobs and organising a one-day international conference in another country on the side! Now I'm not even allowed to walk around the block. I try to do things like establish boundaries ("please don't come into my bedroom") and if they force their way in and I try to stop them - of course they overpower me without trying, I then have to go cap in hand and apologise for using violence, whereupon my mother graciously forgives me and only brings it up for the next sodding decade.
Sorry to go on. Praying I get through to the helpline today because I am honestly going insane here. Of course she also took control of my first day back (why don't we take a picture of you to send to your employers? Because my employers don't care and I've been asking you not to photograph me for over 15 years. But of course take credit for my entire first day back being a success, why don't you.)
Ugh. I'm so disgusted at myself for all of this, for still being in this situation ten years after I should have left home, for being the person I am now. So sorry to go on at all of you, again.