DH and boundaries

[chipsandfizz]

DH reading self help books a lot recently. Asserting boundaries around wanting more sex (I knew he wanted this), more intimacy etc.

The problem is that there were often reasons why these things didn't flow in the way he would like.

My issue is that these books seem to be encouraging him down a route of asserting self and needs and boundaries and away from the work of trying to improve our actual relationship and communications etc to get both needs met.

To the point that if I now have any issue or anything to say it seems to promote a I don't want to talk/listen anymore. I judge on actions not words. A total shut down of conversation and the view that anything I have to say is hormonal on my part.

That we've said all we need to say and he is not interested in talking anymore. I'm trying to say I'm happy he has his boundaries etc but in a relationship surely you have to care what the other person thinks!

How to tackle this as to when I do it just looks to him as though I am struggling with him asserting his boundaries. Couldn't be further from the truth. I just want him to give a shit about mine too! He is midlife and under a lot of stress due to impending work situation.

Just to repeat - it's not the boundaries I have an issue with. It's the way it's all being done. I feel like I have no voice anymore and he just doesn't care. Today he actually refused to talk to me anymore after a blow up that I felt he caused.

He sounds vile

Oh my god, just tell him if he doesn't pack this fucking bullshit in immediately then the next step is divorce.if I was in your shoes I'd just skip to the next step.

Doesn't the thought of shagging him make you retch?

Just leave him. Do whatever you need to do but accept that this marriage is over. He's going to be out raping prostitutes soon whether he's with you or not - it's the next step for these losers.

He sounds like he hates women. I think you need to divorce him. He sounds awful from what you have said.

Then he can have all the boundaries he wants. On his own.

Right. Lots of arguments. He wants to split up after my treatment of him all these years

So what now? I've told him to go then. But he won't. It's obviously going to be one of THOSE separations. FML.

How long do divorces take? I'm not sure I can cope with him living here. I just think he is such a toxic presence.

Oh OP. I'm sorry, he sounds like an arsehole but he obviously wasn't at one point, it must be really hard.

I've no idea on divorces I'm afraid, hopefully someone will be along in a minute.

As for your 'treatment' of him! If you're no longer a couple (which I definitely feel is for the best, objectively) then to me that means no couple treatment from you. No cooking for him, no laundry, no helping find keys, no buying food that's just his, no remembering his mother's birthday. Not in a passive agressive way, in a 'we are not a couple, these are couple things and are not appropriate' sort of way.

If he really feels that way about you then that's it. If he was helping you out still then that would be one thing, bit he's not doing anything for you, there's no give and take, it would all be take from him.

It all depends on how amicable it is, although it sounds like he'll be pretty far from amicable.

What I would recommend is that almost solicitors are doing free half hour consultations over the phone so it might be worth over the next week or so getting a few of these in the diary and having a chat. See which ones you gel with and kick off the divorce.

If you have any items that have sentimental value then ask a friend to look after them, and get copies of all important documents such as marriage certificates etc. Also if he has any financial docs such as bank statements and especially pensions etc get copes of these

Ugh, I'm so sorry that he's being so awful. Where was he going to go when he walked out before?

Do you have a spare room you can move into? I dont think you should have to, but I don't think he'll behave reasonably. Just more digging his heels in and undermining you.

I agree that you should start calling solicitors for advice. Copy all of the paper work you can get your hands on and ask a family member or friend to look after it for you. I'm sorry to say that I think it may well take a while for the divorce if he decides to drag it out. Take care of yourself and the kids. I hope he just buggers off for your sake.

If your staying with him depends on his agreeing with you about everything, and if when he disagrees with you about anything he is always branded as a misogynist, then haven't you actually ended up making his point for him, albeit accidentally?

Men have a right to their own opinions, and you have the right to find those opinions unpleasant, but it seems rather childish to me to in effect say to someone "agree with me about everything or we're finished".

My ex wife tried that one on me many years ago and we were indeed finished PDQ, because why would I want to remain with someone who doesn't respect my right to have an opinion that differs from hers? After all, I respected her right to disagree with me, so where was the respect for my equal right to independent thought?

The problem here is that some women give these so called 'red pill' blokes more ammunition than they are really entitled to by falling into exactly this trap. The minute you say "how can you look at/believe/subscribe to this crap?" then it's easy for him to find an example of feminist stupidity in return, the internet is full of it, and descending to that level of argument gets you as a couple absolutely nowhere.

Where I agree with you, however, is that he should not use a system of thought or philosophy as a cheap excuse to treat you like crap as a person. That is not really part of the 'red pill' code TBH, and lazy thinking on his part. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

However, it might be interesting to speculate on why he sought out, and found, this stuff in the first place? Maybe he was with a women who just expected her opinions to be the only ones that really counted...

Re the divorce, it can take ages so I would start as soon as possible.
He sounds full of anger and resentment - I'm sure you are now too.
I don't see the point of you staying together, life is too short to spend it with someone who makes you miserable.

I didn't enjoy sex in my marriage - I resented my ex. Sex post-divorce with whichever guy I fancy is great though, I recommend it!

@MusicMan65
What a post! Where to start...

and if when he disagrees with you about anything he is always branded as a misogynist...

Is the OP's DH always branded? Inflammatory language btw

Men have a right to their own opinions No one is disputing that

and you have the right to find those opinions unpleasant
Yes she does, especially if those opinions begin to impact negatively on her life eg the alpha male comment to the dc

My ex wife tried that one on me many years ago
Hmmm

The problem here is that some women give these so called 'red pill' blokes...
No, not "so called." They are red pill men

then it's easy for him to find an example of feminist stupidity in return
Erm, so just agree with everything he says to avoid tricky discourse?

descending to that level of argument gets you as a couple absolutely nowhere
No, but women are generally improving their lives without men's permission, thanks to defending themselves

That is not really part of the 'red pill' code TBH, and lazy thinking on his part. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.
So you have more knowledge than the OP's DH? You're a red pill man?

However, it might be interesting to speculate on why he sought out, and found, this stuff in the first place?
Of course! Ladies, the red pill moment is our fault!

Maybe he was with a women who just expected her opinions to be the only ones that really counted...
Then again, maybe not.

And your 'solution' is to shoot the messenger...

@MusicMan65 I see no shooting the messenger. I see someone disagreeing with your points. I thought we're all entitled to do that.

@crackingcrackers

Thank you

The element of messenger shooting is this:

"Erm, so just agree with everything he says to avoid tricky discourse?"

Well, we all have to keep quiet sometimes when our partner talks crap, and we do so out of love and loyalty. Someone can both be a good person and also sometimes talk crap.

My own lovely partner is from eastern Europe, the previously Soviet zone. She is so anti socialism of all kinds as a result of her life experience under various socialist dictatorships (quite understandably) that she espouses all kinds of positions that here would be labelled as almost Fascist. This thinking is very common in the east, as anyone who observes the politics of Hungary, Poland etc will know. There is also a strong seam of 'pro-traditional' thought as well in the former eastern bloc, to which she also subscribes.

I on the other hand am a typical English middle class Guardian reader type. Therefore, when she praises Trump, Putin etc I have a number of strategies with which to cope. I either stay silent, make a joke, gently interrogate the statement from a factual point of view or calmly say why I disagree and end with "but hey, you and I have had very different experiences of life" or something like that.

In other words, I distinguish between positions that she currently occupies because of her previous life, psychology etc, and on the other hand what she might come to believe in the future when she is more calm and rational and feels safer. Many people from these countries suffer from a kind of 'mass PTSD' that leads them down all kinds of unsavoury roads of thought, but anyone observing them can understand why.

The real point here is that I don't make my love for her conditional on her believing exactly what I believe. And it seems to me that these two people described here have both ended up doing exactly that.

That is my message, so shoot me for it if you like, but I believe that the central point is a valid one.

@MusicMan65 having different opinions about politics or other things outside the house is very different from those opinions affecting the dynamics of the family or how you expect your relationship to work. Either you're being disingenuous, or you've not read the posts here properly, either way your comments are not helpful.

view that anything I have to say is hormonal on my part.

This, like some of the other stuff, is misogynistic. It's also gaslighting/emotional abuse.

With the other stuff he's saying, he's torturing you.

If you separate from him you will feel better. x

Be the one to draw the line and you will feel better than if he is the one to reject you.

OK, you're entitled to your opinion, but I can see that further explanation is needed, so here goes.

In order for a person to healthily self actualise they need to feel that their right to an opinion, on ANYTHING, is accepted by the other person.

That is a different issue from whether the other person agrees with the opinion itself. It's the RIGHT to an opinion that is important.

Further reading on this might include 'The Frog Prince' by Geoff Dent for example.

Also see the 'Better Bachelor' channel on YouTube.

If someone's right to an opinion is denied or denigrated, even if the opinion itself is bs, then they will probably react negatively, as described in the original post.

Right now we have a situation where the right of men to have, and state, their own opinion is routinely silenced if it deviates from the so called 'woke' spectrum of thought. See also cancel culture, no platforming, sexist suggestions of a 'men only' curfew etc etc etc ad nauseam.

And this is a problem, because real world relationships between men and women who are in themselves probably good sincere people have become poisoned, as we see here. It's easy to blame the 'red pill' itself for this poisoning, but it might be more useful to examine why so many men now subscribe to the 'red pill' doctrine. Many female commentators are now starting to do this, and they say some interesting things IMO. It's not a question of who to blame, it's a question of trying to understand why all this is happening.

So, we might agree on the problem but we disagree on the cure. I see the cure as freedom of expression within the law for everyone, including the freedom to talk crap, and I also see the cure as including a separation of that freedom from other aspects of the relationship.

Everyone here is working from the assumption that the two things MUST always be linked, hence my previous comments. I don't believe that, hence my own personal example above. As a mature adult I can distinguish the loving and gentle behaviour towards me personally of my partner from her tendency to talk shite about politics, relationships between the sexes (she is very 'tradwife' in her thinking whereas I am not) etc, and I regularly make this distinction as I described. Therefore, I am not advocating anything that I believe to be impossible. I am simply suggesting tolerance as a way forward.

I also made it clear that a difference of opinion, or justifiable frustration at not having one's right to an opinion respected, is NOT a viable excuse for behaving like a w**r towards the other person. I believe I was VERY clear about this.

The original poster asked for ideas & solutions, and that is what I have tried to offer. Disagree with me by all means, but please don't insult my intelligence.

Right now we have a situation where the right of men to have, and state, their own opinion is routinely silenced

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! This is far from the case.

You don't seem to have read OP's posts properly. It's her opinion that's being ignored. She is listening to her husband's emotionally abusive and coercive opinions, but he's dismissing her's and part of his reason's for doing so are 'hormones.' (This is bollox and anyway women don't have permanent PMT or anything.)

Her husband is being misogynistic towards her and that is not ok.

He's also torturing her with his threats to leave etc.

I wonder if you've come here from a 'red pill' board initially.

"I wonder if you've come here from a 'red pill' board initially."

Nope.

If he were female and behaving irrationally no doubt he would be the recipient of much sympathy on here, whereas I have the sense that because it's a bloke and because many people here are probably suspicious of his thought itself then therefore it's easier to condemn him out of hand rather than dig a bit deeper - NONE of which excuses the behaviour itself, I wonder how many times I have to say that LOL.

Can you really not see how you are dominating this discussion Musicman? And how this is problematic, both for the poster, and sadly representative of the bigger picture? That's rhetorical btw

If he were female and behaving irrationally no doubt he would be the recipient of much sympathy on here

Nope, not necessarily. Often if women are being 'irrational' people tell them so on here.

I have the sense that because it's a bloke and because many people here are probably suspicious of his thought itself then therefore it's easier to condemn him out of hand rather than dig a bit deeper

He is the one being dismissive of OP and her opinion, whereas she was prepared to work towards what he wanted, no matter how unpleasant it might be for her.

He is also being misogynistic. When it comes to that aspect of what he's doing, condemnation and support for OP's right to her opinion (which is the one being dismissed in their relationship) is the correct response.

Telling women their opinion is just due to hormones is false, gaslighting and abusive.

I'm happy to take MusicMan's very own advice and lean back with my copy of the Guardian while he witters on. He and I have had very different experiences of life.