DH and boundaries

[chipsandfizz]

DH reading self help books a lot recently. Asserting boundaries around wanting more sex (I knew he wanted this), more intimacy etc.

The problem is that there were often reasons why these things didn't flow in the way he would like.

My issue is that these books seem to be encouraging him down a route of asserting self and needs and boundaries and away from the work of trying to improve our actual relationship and communications etc to get both needs met.

To the point that if I now have any issue or anything to say it seems to promote a I don't want to talk/listen anymore. I judge on actions not words. A total shut down of conversation and the view that anything I have to say is hormonal on my part.

That we've said all we need to say and he is not interested in talking anymore. I'm trying to say I'm happy he has his boundaries etc but in a relationship surely you have to care what the other person thinks!

How to tackle this as to when I do it just looks to him as though I am struggling with him asserting his boundaries. Couldn't be further from the truth. I just want him to give a shit about mine too! He is midlife and under a lot of stress due to impending work situation.

Just to repeat - it's not the boundaries I have an issue with. It's the way it's all being done. I feel like I have no voice anymore and he just doesn't care. Today he actually refused to talk to me anymore after a blow up that I felt he caused.

Almost worth reading for a laugh?!

@ravenmum

Almost worth reading for a laugh?!

100% I did laugh and scratch my head a lot thinking wow, some men believe this shit! But I was 21 and surprised then lol. Now I’m 35 and realise it gets much worse than that!!

So this morning. We get our children up and he says, okay as alpha parent and goes on to discuss a treat with our son.

When the kids were downstairs, I asked him WTF? Apparently it was just a joke??!! Came from nowhere.

I said that sounds like that red pill shit.

He walked down the stairs (was already on the way out). No eh? What's that? What do you mean?

I said so I take it as yes you are reading that shit?

What I read is nothing to do with you was the reply. I'm reading books to help me not tolerate the shit you have put me through. To not accept it.

I told him he isn't my alpha and I don't need him leading me.

Row ensued. I swore (a lot). Various texts. Now claiming he knows nothing about red pill.

I said we need to talk. Do we now? was the response.

But I made it abundantly clear I don't want to talk to him yet and I couldn't actually give a shit if it was in 3 months time.

He is adamant he hadn't manipulated me.

I've read it all. I recognise so many of the techniques he has played out and told him so. Called him on his bullshit (many many previous lying issues even when caught red handed).

Apparently he is the victim? It's my fault. He's not putting up with my shit

It's just mind blowing bollocks.

Honestly start the divorce.

I think I would be inclined to play along and show some interest. I would buy a copy of Red Pill Woman and see if he's comfortable with that.

I HESs

Of course he’ll deny it but the techniques are very very obvious once you know them. On the plus side you’ll never get hooked into it again. But the huge downside is obviously now you have to deal with knowing he tried to train you like a silly little lady dog. And tried to use what these men believe are women’s weaknesses to do it. It’s sick, the whole red pill, PUA, incel type stuff is terrible and more and more men are accessing it and using this stuff as a weapon to manipulate women.

Red pill woman? There's more

@SilverRoe

Of course he’ll deny it but the techniques are very very obvious once you know them. On the plus side you’ll never get hooked into it again. But the huge downside is obviously now you have to deal with knowing he tried to train you like a silly little lady dog. And tried to use what these men believe are women’s weaknesses to do it. It’s sick, the whole red pill, PUA, incel type stuff is terrible and more and more men are accessing it and using this stuff as a weapon to manipulate women.

Agreed.

What a fucking arsehole. He's manipulating you, giving you the silent treatment, sulking, expecting you to change and him stay the same. You're being trained to be the perfect wife, but he'll constantly change what makes him happy, so you can't win.

I think there are only two outcomes in this scenario -

1. you adapt and bend to his will, continually, as the goal posts will constantly move. When you 'behave' there will be rewards, to further train you, when you don't there will be punishments (like you're getting now). He'll threaten to leave if you stop complying, you'll be coerced in to intimacy and sex and live the rest of your life walking on egg shells, a shadow of who you could be, and your children will see a shocking example of a relationship. Pavlov's wife.

2. you tell him to just fuck off, stop engaging in the games he's playing and divorce him.

For the sake of to and your children please go for option 2. Do you really want to still be going through all this when you're old and grey and he's incontinent and you're having to wipe his arse?

I know this will be a shock and seem drastic but honestly he's controlling and emotionally and mentally abusive. It's subtle and insidious, so subtle we can be blind to it for decades. Once the blinkers come off though it's a horrifying wake up call.

Read "Why does he do that" by Lundy Bancroft. Recommended to me on here 6 years ago (several name changes ago) and changed my life. Completely turned the world as I knew it upside down, but showed me exactly what a nasty, abusive arsehole my (thenD)H was. I'd been led to believe - totally fucking convinced - it was all my fault, but thought deep-down he was at fault, I just couldn't see how, as everyone liked him etc.

Happily divorced now. I'm without many of the material comforts the marriage allowed and the (perceived) future security but my mental health is FAR stronger and that's priceless. My now-adult children are happy and well-balanced and whilst they love their dad, they don't really 'like' him very much.

Please read “Why Does He Do That” by Lundy Bancroft. If you google it there is a free PDF version online which has been shared with & helped countless people in abusive relationships.

You can’t fight with this person to make them respect you. He resents you for anything that is not right in his life. It’s like conspiracy theorists - they are obsessed with the evil illuminaughi bringing them down and being above the simple minded sheep.

You can’t argue with a conspiracy theorist or red pill lunatic. You just have to cut them out like a cancer.

It would be easiest to just play him at his own game - let him think you’re just a simple silly woman. Act generally confused & vague. While you lay low get all the finance & documents together then divorce him

It will be the final nail on this red pill coffin - the whole “she took me to the cleaners” bullshit with zero self reflection for the part they played in their own demise.

Oh and in my experience red pillers also dislike childfree women.

Errr....what's this talk of 'boundaries'? I think he's wildly misunderstood the meaning and mistaken it for 'ultimatums' or 'demands'.

Could you give us examples of books he's been reading?

@EarthSight

Errr....what's this talk of 'boundaries'? I think he's wildly misunderstood the meaning and mistaken it for 'ultimatums' or 'demands'.

Could you give us examples of books he's been reading?

She has!

@EarthSight he doesn’t misunderstand the term boundaries. Abusive & toxic people twist things around, they are always the victim // hero in their narrative. That is what they do.

It wouldn't surprise me if he wants you to divorce him, so he can make out like he tried to work on the marriage and not be the bad guy, so to speak. And if not, he has some time to try to bend you to his will, basically.

I think you've realised that this man is not on your side, at all any more. He sees you as his enemy I think. This has become a toxic environment and I think you need to deliver on his 'actions not words' and serve him some divorce papers once you've got some legal advice.

@SixesAndEights

OK! Christ, chill out.

God I was thinking this sounds like my ex, then I read "well why don't you leave then" and it is 100% my ex. Same old carry on, being more assertive etc but actually just being even more controlling. We went to Counselling and I wasn't allowed to speak about my relationship disappointment as it was "too upsetting" and the Counsellor stopped me. I still roll my eyes about that to this day. Reading the rest of this post with interest.

I’m in the process of separating from a ‘red piller’.

I honestly worried for a couple of years that he’d had a minor stroke, or some early dementia cognitive decline. I actually organised medical tests. His personality underwent a complete turnaround.

He was always angry, or sneering. He went from volunteering at a refugee centre to being a huge Trump fan (we don’t live in the US). He went from being a life-long church attendee/volunteer to ranting against how his religion was selling out and being diluted by progressives.

He started wearing headphones 24/7, listening to (equally) podcasts on US politics, fundamentalist religion, men’s rights. By this point he had been kicked out of my bed, so he listened to it all night too, in the spare room.

He started being weird with our daughter, talking about ‘modesty’ and ‘preserving her innocence’. He started hiding money. He lost all our (and his) friends- would rant on at them in any social situation. He started making garbled lists of his ‘concerns’ in life. Things that ‘needed to change’.

It wasn’t a stroke. What happened in my household is happening all over the world. Men shooting themselves in the foot, ruining their own lives, and those around them. Encouraging, and being encouraged by, other men on the internet. A toxic echo-chamber of disordered thinking and misogyny.

The only solution is leaving them to it. Maybe they can live in colonies of motorhomes, sharing the wifi costs. Live in their own isolated filth and loneliness, wondering how it all went so wrong.

Bitter, me? Nah.

OP, he sounds awful. It's like reading their "script" word for word when you wrote out what he'd been saying today.

This kind of thinking of his is dangerous - if you aren't happy in your relationship anyway, I'd honestly say to take this discovery as the final death knell and get away from the madness. Like a PP has said, it's like this madness changes their personality - their brain chemistry. It's utterly bizarre. Or maybe it just brings out the misogyny that was already there...who knows. Disgraceful that he's using phrases like "alpha parent" around the kids too, whether he says it was a joke or not.

Oh, and yes, there are red pill women too. They want a "strong" man that they can be a housewife for. They have a drink and dinner ready for them when they get back from work, sex on tap, and endless housework and gymwork to stay in perfect shape.

I've browsed their Reddit posts and while I think some of them are (very unwell) young women, it wouldn't surprise me if most of them were actually men. Lots tend to be very hyper religious too.

No more Mr Nice Guy
Dr Glover

This is quite long but the first 15 minutes I listened to basically sell men a dream of the author's life experience which wasbof being divorced from two unappreciative wives who disliked him because he had been 'too nice' (no evidence provided). He then dates loads of new women who love his new air of emotional tension i.e. moodiness and are attracted to him, his tough guy stance leads to more money too, and all-round success for men who follow him and his teachings.

www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Dr.+Robert+Glover&docid=608007283486427566&mid=235064705540665A500A235064705540665A500A&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

That would put me off sex, off a relationship with anyone like that. He sounds like he is really trying to corner you so he can get what he wants. If this was a work setting, would he find this reasonable? Maybe he is building up an excuse to cheat seeing you don't listen, you don't respect his boundaries, you don't want sex you don't want affection, etc etc

Off he fucks to find a surrendered wife then.

@Nitpickpicnic

The only solution is leaving them to it. Maybe they can live in colonies of motorhomes, sharing the wifi costs*