DH and boundaries

[chipsandfizz]

DH reading self help books a lot recently. Asserting boundaries around wanting more sex (I knew he wanted this), more intimacy etc.

The problem is that there were often reasons why these things didn't flow in the way he would like.

My issue is that these books seem to be encouraging him down a route of asserting self and needs and boundaries and away from the work of trying to improve our actual relationship and communications etc to get both needs met.

To the point that if I now have any issue or anything to say it seems to promote a I don't want to talk/listen anymore. I judge on actions not words. A total shut down of conversation and the view that anything I have to say is hormonal on my part.

That we've said all we need to say and he is not interested in talking anymore. I'm trying to say I'm happy he has his boundaries etc but in a relationship surely you have to care what the other person thinks!

How to tackle this as to when I do it just looks to him as though I am struggling with him asserting his boundaries. Couldn't be further from the truth. I just want him to give a shit about mine too! He is midlife and under a lot of stress due to impending work situation.

Just to repeat - it's not the boundaries I have an issue with. It's the way it's all being done. I feel like I have no voice anymore and he just doesn't care. Today he actually refused to talk to me anymore after a blow up that I felt he caused.

Have his political beliefs changed/become more extreme in the last few years too?

@Leafpile

Have his political beliefs changed/become more extreme in the last few years too?

More vocal. Not different. Not that he has said anyway.

But I've got sick of bloody listening to him. I thought he was just becoming middle aged and grumpy.

He mainly just moans constantly about politicians.

I think one book you could both read is Five Languages of Love. Much better for improving relationships and understanding different wants.
The books he is reading sound damaging.

Oh dear, this sounds like he's been taken in by some Reddit red-piller crap. I think the only thing to do is to ask him why he thinks red pill will work on you? Just say it out of the blue, let him realise you know exactly what it's up to. If I were you I'd let him rant and rave all he wants for quite a while so he can say his piece. Then tell him in no uncertain terms you have listened, and you disagree.

The bottom line is that this will not work with him if he is into all the red pill stuff. You need to be willing to work together, maybe find another book together( that you both agree on) that you can read separately. You each (mostly him tbh) need to agree to work on it in a way that is okay for you both, as you can't carry on like this.

They say you should never do couples counselling with an abuser

Because the abuser will use what the counsellor has said & twist it against you

Basically counselling trains the abuser on how to manipulate even better

Essentially that's exactly what is happening here with the "self help books"

OP am feeling really creeped out on your behalf that he is using self help books to manipulate/coerce you into sex you don't want, because your subconscious knows he is abusive & doesn't want sex with an abusive person.

He sounds utterly nasty & cunning.

Red pillers - moaning about why women don't want to fuck them & wonder why they're at the bottom of the dating well

Bottom dwellers - to be married to a red piller must be a total mindfuck

Ugh the red pill men are vile.

They hate women.

They are angry when women who they want to shag don't want to shag them.

They would rather a woman had sex with them under duress or coercion than say no to having sex with them.

There's a word for men like that.

Can you imagine enjoying having sex with someone you know doesn't really want to have sex you? No. Me either. Because it's absolutely wrong to enjoy that. Again, there's a word for men like that.

I've read one of those books and I thought it was quite helpful for people pleasers who struggle with asserting themselves.

However,The red pill books and sites tell men that they are a catch and if their wives don't want them there are many twenty somethings who would.

They also tell them not to talk about problems. Most of them get divorced.

@chipsandfizz He's very bloody stupid. It's a world away from reality, isn't it? Toxic masculinity at its most poisonous.

You're a step ahead of the game now that you know, though. Take some time to consider how to want to move forward - let him wallow however he wants. He isn't worth your wasted energy at the moment.

Take your time to think what you want to do next through, and move on to the next step on your own terms. The good thing is, now you know this is the crap he's spouting you won't doubt yourself if he comes out with gaslighting bullshit when you do decide what's best for you. He's see through now. You have clarity.

If he won't talk to you, then this will never get resolved. I'd quit now and leave him to it.

I would let him become a red pill alpha male. Alone. In an empty house.

There's no way my marriage could come back from something like this. I wouldn't want to be married to someone so malleable as to be taken in by this incel bullshit online. Especially as it all started because his wife is so tired from wifework she wouldn't put out a few times.

Normal men would take a bit of the load off and show love. This one is going down the incel/red pill/hate route. Quite why they think that will work to make you want to have more sex is a massive mystery. I bet their hit rate is as low as a Jack Russell's balls.

OP you need to get legal advice. This isn't going to go into reverse because if you decided to try and have more sex, he will see it as a win and escalate. He has set it up so you cannot feel anything but manipulated by him and that is not sexy.

The thing with the incel crap online is that although it is dressed up as advice and information for each other, these characters are mostly genuine total nohopers. They have never had any female contact past their mothers. The websites etc. are where they vent their rage and that is 'a good thing'. These are men that are nasty pieces of work or so ugly (sorry to be politically incorrect but it's true) they can't get female interest or they don't wash or there is something else that repels women. The fact that your DH is a DH and has a wife means that he isn't one of these. He must be too thick to realise this.

I suspect he has Googled, 'how to get more sex' and has gone down the 'levelling up' rabbit hole to shitontheinternet land.
It's terrifying as men are told that they have the right to shag women. It's a coercives charter in the hands of a man with a woman in his life.

He’s now a full blown misogynist. There is no way to coexist with that.

I've read one of those books and I thought it was quite helpful for people pleasers who struggle with asserting themselves.
Is this how your dh sees himself, OP? As having been under your thumb until now? My exh used to paint an image himself as being under my thumb, and it kept me feeling bad for years. Only realised later on that actually, I was always the one making the compromises.

I think he has got to a point where he thinks he deserves more from you. Maybe he has been the one to “bring home the bacon”, therefore he deserves more from you. He keeps a roof over your head and you need to conform.

He is possibly now of the opinion that if you don’t conform, then he may as well be single.

I think you have two options. Ignore him and start living a more single life distancing from him or leave. If you leave though, he will make out you’re the bad one.

He’s being a twat. Conform or leave.

God this is awful! But at least you know what you're dealing with op. It's great when mumsnetters can spot this shit. Unfortunately I just Googled one of the book and looked at a thread with men talking about it and women. You've probably looked, but I would advise having a good look so you know what you are dealing with.

I know about incels, MRAs and red pullers but actually reading the shit they say was still shocking. But it really will give a picture of his views!

As pp's have said once someone won't talk or compromise there's not much you can do. So in practical terms I don't know how you can progress with the relationship and be happy. However with his views I do wonder if he would make separation very difficult.

I think you would really benefit from reading Why Does He Do That?: Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men by Lundy Bancroft. It covers so many of the behaviours you have written about. There is a section on how dangerous it is for these men to go to counselling because they distort everything they are told and will use it against their partners to get what they want, just as your partner is doing with the self help boundaries information.

I would stop trying to figure out why he is a full-blown misogynistic and work out why you still want a relationship with this utter fuck wit.

I would shove that red pill up his misogynistic arse and then kick that arse out of the door.

@chipsandfizz

The way of the superior man.....:

Ah I knew that one had to be in there 😬

My ex had a copy on his shelf when I met him and I thought it was funny. I read it and just laughed at the silly menz having funny ideas like that...

What I very stupidly didn’t realise is that he 100% believed in it all.

Your husband is a confirmed misogynist now (whether he was before or not is sadly irrelevant). He lives by a belief system where you are a lower being of limited intellect and therefore should be dealt with firmly like a troublesome dog.

There is nothing that can help your situation and you will be safer and happier without him x

(P.a: my ex started openly posting men’s rights/incel/mgtow stuff on his Facebook after I left him... like YouTube clips titled “why giving women rights destroys civilisations” 😂😂😂

I had to look it up to see what the Superior Man was all about. Seems to be saying what you should do to be a better man, hence the "superior" - not actually about men being superior to women? What a title, though.
Also just browsed a couple of pages online and it was all about how to treat "your woman". I was amazed to see it was first published in 2004! Would have thought 30 years earlier.

@ravenmum

I had to look it up to see what the Superior Man was all about. Seems to be saying what you should do to be a better man, hence the "superior" - not actually about men being superior to women? What a title, though. Also just browsed a couple of pages online and it was all about how to treat "your woman". I was amazed to see it was first published in 2004! Would have thought 30 years earlier.

Nah I’ve actually read it. The disguise is thin and you’ve bought it 😅👍

What did I buy? I could see it was sexist; that's what I meant about the use of "your woman" and it being more like something from the 1970s. Do you mean that it is about men being superior?

@ravenmum

What did I buy? I could see it was sexist; that's what I meant about the use of "your woman" and it being more like something from the 1970s. Do you mean that it is about men being superior?

Yes, it absolutely is 👍

The language is veiled throughout but men are superior in every way according to David Deida.

Men have a higher purpose that they must find and achieve. Women can’t see beyond the mundane desire to have children.

Men are in control of themselves and their destiny, they can self reflect. Women are “deep as the ocean” confused and unknowable even to themselves.

Men can rationalise and think about the greater good. Women can’t help but be petty, spiteful and manipulative because it’s just our nature, so men should try and be patient but not permissive with us.

He really does think we’re lower beings. He just says it very carefully.