DH and boundaries

[chipsandfizz]

DH reading self help books a lot recently. Asserting boundaries around wanting more sex (I knew he wanted this), more intimacy etc.

The problem is that there were often reasons why these things didn't flow in the way he would like.

My issue is that these books seem to be encouraging him down a route of asserting self and needs and boundaries and away from the work of trying to improve our actual relationship and communications etc to get both needs met.

To the point that if I now have any issue or anything to say it seems to promote a I don't want to talk/listen anymore. I judge on actions not words. A total shut down of conversation and the view that anything I have to say is hormonal on my part.

That we've said all we need to say and he is not interested in talking anymore. I'm trying to say I'm happy he has his boundaries etc but in a relationship surely you have to care what the other person thinks!

How to tackle this as to when I do it just looks to him as though I am struggling with him asserting his boundaries. Couldn't be further from the truth. I just want him to give a shit about mine too! He is midlife and under a lot of stress due to impending work situation.

Just to repeat - it's not the boundaries I have an issue with. It's the way it's all being done. I feel like I have no voice anymore and he just doesn't care. Today he actually refused to talk to me anymore after a blow up that I felt he caused.

I personally thin like his mental health is shit. He says otherwise.

Tried to talk. Just turned the tv up while speaking.

He says I'm not leaving him alone like he said to. The argument was first thing this morning. I left him alone all day. I struggle when conflict drags on. He knows this.

Interesting that his take on him 'asserting his boundaries' involves trampling all over yours. Like an alpha dog putting himself on top.

Other relationships self help books I've come across say that relationships are about what you can give, rather than what you look to receive. Obviously that has it's own potential problems but he seems to be coming at this purely from a selfish perspective. 'This is what I want, and if you don't give it to me then YOU are the problem'.

Possibly he should be looking into books geared more towards negotiation, like How to Win Friends and Influence People. Tbh though I suspect hes orchestrating this on purpose to make you the bad guy. 'I really tried, I read all these self help books and everything'

I think it's true that neither of your needs are getting met but with so much conflict it's hard to have a constructive environment to start to resolve this.
I agree with counselling, that would let you both express yourself and be heard and understand each other in a more structured and less judgemental environment and you might find a path forward.
On the other hand if he won't go to counselling then really you have to try to do the communication in your own and it's going to be hard to get through the emotion.

Are these self help books specifically aimed at men? There's a rather strange movement promoting men asserting themselves and making sure women are in service to men.
Is it that?

He's also stonewalling you. Sounds just like my ex. Sadly it sounds like you have a selfish, gaslighting t**t on your hands. It's utterly exhausting. The day I walked away I breathed out. Wish I'd gone sooner. You deserve so much better OP. Xxx

Sounds like one of those red pill loons all over Reddit. This is the kind of nonsense they come out with.

Play him at his own stupid game, and ignore. Sit and have a nice glass of wine and enjoy the evening having a bit of peace from his crap. I'd also be pondering if this was something I was willing to put up with in the long run. He sounds like an absolute headache.

Sounds like he's setting you up to fail.

If you want to give things a chance, you could write him a letter, explaining things from your perspective.

You need to back off if he's said he doesn't want to talk though. Give him what he wants. Ask him to contact you about finding a mutually acceptable time to talk. Ridiculous perhaps but asserting some boundaries of your own sounds necessary.

What's red pill?

Yes it's no more mr nice guy and practical female psychology

It seems to me that this is now moving to an inevitable end. He is behaving in an unpleasant and provocative way. You wouldn't behave like this towards someone who you liked let alone loved and was also the mother of your children. And I think you need to think about yourself and your children and how you much longer you are going to tolerate his nonsense. Once we come out of lockdown he may even look to start an affair.

There is lots of advice on Mumsnet about how to start preparing for a break up both emotionally and financially. I hope he grows up and stops behaving like a toddler, but if he does not, you will get a lot of support here.

Can I just say OP, what on Earth makes him think that behaving like this is actually going to make you feel like any kind of intimacy— you are not just a machine there to service his ‘needs’ — the way I see it is that the relationship particularly for women has to feel’right’ to feel like sex or even to feel affectionate. I wouldn’t feel remotely affectionate with this tit- never mind sex. I think he wants you to end it so he doesn’t seem the bad guy- clearly thinks the world is full of women desparate to service his needs for free. Do yourself a favour and tell him to pack his bags

Sounds like he's using these self-help guides as a coercion tool. What a manipulative bastard. And he refused to speak to you after a blow up. So he sulks too and gives you the silent treatment? He's a man baby. Poor you OP. Good luck with whatever you decide. I couldn't deal with such a twat

@chipsandfizz

What's red pill?

Yes it's no more mr nice guy and practical female psychology

It refers to taking a "red pill" (like in The Matrix) and choosing to become Mr. Macho. The main belief is that women are run by their hormones, but are also highly manipulative and therefore men have to "level up" to gain dominance over them. All about sex, getting their needs met, etc. It's actually a really disturbing community. They HATE women.

Basically just incels who lift weights (or say they do!)...only they usually have women in their lives, unlike incels.

It's creepy.

I'm not saying this is what he's definitely looking at, but it's all the same kind of rubbish and it's toxic.

I actually feel like I'm in the matrix. Incels and red pill. I'm shocked. What is this shit?

I did wonder where his reading material choices had come from. If only he had put so much effort into relationship building books!

He sounds like a real horror.

Be careful.

He's treating you like a object that needs to bend to his will.

It reads as if your marriage is over.

Protect yourself.

@chipsandfizz

I actually feel like I'm in the matrix. Incels and red pill. I'm shocked. What is this shit?

I did wonder where his reading material choices had come from. If only he had put so much effort into relationship building books!

There's a whole world of toxic nonsense out there, just ready and waiting for men with an already fragile ego - especially if they already don't have great MH.

I'm sorry he's being such an arse, OP. Always amazes me how people can be so tunnel visioned instead of working on solving the bigger issues.

I'd just let him get on with things and not rise to it. If he doesn't want to talk, then don't - don't let him see you wound up by his ignorance. You shouldn't have to break your real boundaries to build up his imaginary ones. You're worth more than that.

OP, if you had just met this ghastly man on a dating site, all of us on Mumsnet would be warning you of the red flags all over the relationship and telling you not to get involved.
It’s more complicated this far down the line, but do you seriously think this chap can possibly be rehabilitated into a decent loving partner? Because I don’t. I think you should cut your losses and move on, before he spoils any more of your life.

What are the titles of these self help books anyway? You could have a look at it yourself and decide whether it is some sort of anti women propaganda written by incels dressed up as "self help".

This relationship is over OP.

I agree with PP, you should probably get some legal advice and start to think about how you move forwards without him.

I agree with your evaluation - you're not happy and need to talk to see if there is a solution.

He's refusing to talk therefore no solution.

So unless you are OK about being unhappy (and married to someone who sounds like a complete twat) for the rest of your life you need to leave.

Errrrm wanting more sex is not a boundary. That doesn’t make any sense.

He has ended your marriage.

Ask him unemotionally how he would like to manage the separation process.

Mirror him - I also judge on actions not words.. my boundary is.. you seem to be having a mid life crisis etc etc.

Set up couples therapy. Tell him when the series of appointments is made. Tell him he can help you set the topic for discussion. Either you discuss the current stalemate and his inability to take your needs into account, or you go to discuss the strategies you’ll need for future co-parenting in different homes. Ball is in his court, just as he likes it.

A word on boundaries. I’ve had a recent revelation about them, after working with a therapist on mine for some time.

So much is spoken and written about boundaries, but it all seems to focus on one kind. The kind I call ‘negative’, where a person is setting a limit and stating it, repelling transgressors at the gate, sort of the thing. The kind that are about saying ‘No’ to other people. Of course these are important, and a key part of assertiveness.

I’ve become more interested recently in a more ‘positive’ kind of boundaries as well. The kind where you step forward in a more proactive way (than maybe you’re used to) and make things happen for yourself. Using self-knowledge to create goals for yourself (like in your relationship), and actively walking through steps to get yourself in a better place. I see it’s still connected to boundaries, because it’s based on your values, your strengths, etc. It’s about breaking with old limiting patterns in yourself. I also see that people with bad/no boundaries have trouble doing it, so it may well be connected to good boundaries?

Your partner seems to have decided that boundaries in a relationship are adversarial, putting you in opposite corners of a boxing ring. Good boundaries don’t do this, they allow people to better work through problems, if anything. Boundaries that have been weaponised? Sort of defeats the purpose.

I suspect he may have fallen down a Menz Rights rabbit-hole. Check his YouTube history, it’s rife on there. His rhetoric mirrors some I’ve heard. It’s a distinctly anti-feminist movement, and it’s destroying families. Including mine. Starts very benignly, with words/concepts borrowed from true psychology. Like boundaries. It’s like crack to certain middle aged men, especially the sexually frustrated ones. Telling them they can be King of their Castles, and fuelling their disordered thinking about how their problems are everyone else’s fault. Poor bunnies.

@chipsandfizz

DH reading self help books a lot recently. Asserting boundaries around wanting more sex (I knew he wanted this), more intimacy etc.

The problem is that there were often reasons why these things didn't flow in the way he would like.

My issue is that these books seem to be encouraging him down a route of asserting self and needs and boundaries and away from the work of trying to improve our actual relationship and communications etc to get both needs met.

To the point that if I now have any issue or anything to say it seems to promote a I don't want to talk/listen anymore. I judge on actions not words. A total shut down of conversation and the view that anything I have to say is hormonal on my part.

That we've said all we need to say and he is not interested in talking anymore. I'm trying to say I'm happy he has his boundaries etc but in a relationship surely you have to care what the other person thinks!

How to tackle this as to when I do it just looks to him as though I am struggling with him asserting his boundaries. Couldn't be further from the truth. I just want him to give a shit about mine too! He is midlife and under a lot of stress due to impending work situation.

Just to repeat - it's not the boundaries I have an issue with. It's the way it's all being done. I feel like I have no voice anymore and he just doesn't care. Today he actually refused to talk to me anymore after a blow up that I felt he caused.

Could you buy him a self help book on having better relationships?

I suspect he may have fallen down a Menz Rights rabbit-hole.

Jeez, @Nitpickpicnic, I just went to look on You Tube and now I feel sick. Some of this stuff is truly terrifying. Thanks for the heads up, but yikes!