Could you EVER Forgive your DH for this?? warning poss trigger

[Elsaandana]

Hi, I could write an essay but will try & keep this brief

Over a year ago I found myself pregnant with my 4th baby, I knew my husbands reaction probably wouldn't be good but don't think I was prepared for how bad it was, basically if I was going to have the baby then he would be leaving & we would be divorcing

Although the circumstances were not ideal & I could see some of his reasoning I went through absolute hell to make my decision because I had dreamed of 4 and thought I would be the last person in the world to have an abortion, i ended up terminating & my life turned upside down & went to a very dark place which I'm still trying to pick up the pieces

Not long after covid hit & obviously changed things , I have tried my absolute hardest to try & get over it and try & be "normal " with him but it's fucking hard

I know these are completely separate things but I also liken it to maybe when your Dh cheats & you try to forgive & move past it but it's always just there! Obviously from an intimacy point of view aswell

Any advice/opinions will be welcomed

I'd get rid of him,but after the hardest part of raising your 3 kids is done.

Why should you struggle cause he's s bastard.

In the meantime, if you choose to have sex with him, I'd get him to have a vasectomy. Or get on an implant and ideally use condoms too.

All in all there seems to be a power imbalance in your relationship, otherwise he wouldn't have had the gall to coerce you into an abortion having knowingly had unprotected sex, threatened to leave you etc. You would have said "Go then, and I'll be sure to tell people who you've gone" (and as he's confirmed himself, he wouldnt have).
I'd be aware of that power imbalance and not let him dominate any further ; you may find you'll come up against friction if you don't, though you'll see his real character more clearly.

*why you've gone

Just to say I had a contraception failure I was on the pill, after this I was sterilised as my MH was in pieces. Like others have said I can now agree I made the right decision for my family but not for me. Noone to blame and my DH accepts his part in this.

And no I haven’t had a termination but we tried for years for another baby, unsuccessfully. To see you play around with a baby’s life like you both did, that really upsets me.

@FourPillars OP hasn't played around with a baby's life. She wanted to have that baby but her husband made her have an abortion, saying he would leave if she didn't. If it was down to her that baby would be here now.

No-one in real life knows and I dread to think what they would feel about me if they did.

@Rupertpenrysmistress They wouldn't feel badly about you, they'd feel badly about your husband making you feel you had to do that when you didn't want to. Unless the people who found out were some of the rare few who are devoutly religious or something

@Rupertpenrysmistress

Hi op I could have written your post only it would have been my third. my DH issued a very similar ultimatum based around me ruining everyone's lives. I told him the effect it would have on me but still I felt pushed.

This was 10 years ago I won't go into details as I don't want to upset anyone and if I do I fear I can't come back. Anyway I have since had 2 lots of counseling and am on high dose AD, I drink to much to block it out which I am working on again. In short it changed me forever. I have told DH that I won't ever forgive him but I have accepted what I did to start to forgive myself.

I don't have wise words it eases but I do get triggered and spiral. I will never be the same person but, I have to go on with life for my 2 gorgeous DC. If you need to pm me you can. No-one in real life knows and I dread to think what they would feel about me if they did. It is so emotive and something I did not think I would ever do. For the record I don't judge people who do just didn't think it would be me (I struggle to use the terminology as it really upsets me).

Oh that's awful. Is it really worth staying with him?

OP just to offer further, I did have an abortion myself when I was 17. I felt like I was pushed into it by a few people; my step dad, my friends, my father. I do understand but I really struggled. The only way I made peace with it was to realise that child probably wouldn't of had as good a life as the child I have now does.

I think you need to imagine what life would of been like for number 4 - would it have always felt unwanted by its father? Were there any real practical reasons it wouldn't of been a good idea?

I think this is why I was harsher earlier - I know exactly how it feels to have an abortion, so for me it is pretty shocking that you and your partner allowed this situation to happen not once but twice. Number 3 and number 4. It's not a game, it's not oh fuck it, as you know it has real serious consequences that are life changing. I will say it again - sort your contraception out if you stay together. It's the least you can both do for the children you already have.

I think having an abortion can be very distressing whatever the circumstances. I accidentally got pregnant when taking a new pill (years ago, it may not be the kind they have now). Due to monthly bleeding (which Dr assured me was ok with this pill), I didn't realise until 17 weeks pregnant. It was not a good time for me - had just started my first proper job and though my bf was very nice, I realised I didn't see us being together long term. All I could see was going back to living with my parents, giving up the job (which had taken me 6 months to find) and having a restricted life.

OTOH I wasn't a teenager and I knew I really wanted children one day so I also really really wanted to keep it.

Due to late stage I only had a few days to make up my mind. My bf, my best friend and my parents all supported me - only my dad made it clear he thought I should terminate, but not in a pressuring way.

In the end I had the termination, was relieved when it was over. But grieved the loss of the child for a long time. I knew the decision was correct but it took me a long time to get over it. And was especially hard when I later had trouble conceiving.

But I did come to terms with it long ago and it no longer upsets me.

I know none of this is particularly relevant to your situation OP, but just to say that your regrets, grief etc are all perfectly normal and would possibly be very similar if you had agreed with your DH.

I suggest counselling- I didn't have it at the time, but did some years later in relation to the infertility, and I talked about it a lot then.

[quote FourPillars]@elsaandana you say “ so forgive me if I'm more fucking concerned how IM affected versus my husband”

My point was you knew your husband didn’t want another baby, he didn’t want #3 either. Yet you had unprotected sex.
I’m more fucking concerned about the baby than either you or your husband, to be honest, that’s the life you were playing with.

And no I haven’t had a termination but we tried for years for another baby, unsuccessfully. To see you play around with a baby’s life like you both did, that really upsets me.

You have a right to rage at your husband but you need to own your own decisions too.[/quote]
Absolutely shameful post.

I’m sorry for your secondary infertility, but using your own infertility as a tool to beat the OP with is disgusting.

She had every right to an abortion, she chose to terminate that pregnancy as is her legal right. Her going ahead with an unwanted (by its father) pregnancy would not provide you with a baby.

She made the best decision she could at the time. The having sex without contraception was foolish on both their parts but trying to paint it as ‘playing around with a baby’s life’ is anti-abortion emotive nonsense.

I'd also say it was a joint responsibility to ensure adequate contraception. It sounds like you didn't mind if you fell pregnant again but was that sensible knowing his reaction to the 3rd pregnancy? Yes, he obviously relied on you or good luck to avoid conceiving, and that wasn't appropriate. But your role in prevention was at least equal to his. It isnt fair to heap all the blame on him. Plus you actually made the choice - swayed by his words, but still your choice.

@Pessismistic sorry to hear your story thats awful ,how difficult it must be to live with those feelings are you still with him?

@Onelifeonly that must have been incredibly hard at that late stage but im glad you are happy with the way your life turned out & are at peace with it

@ColdBrightClearMorning thank you for that , you worded it perfectly 💗

you and your partner allowed this situation to happen not once but twice.

@CottonCandy01 I don't think OP herself was playing with anything as she was ok with the idea of possibly getting pregnant. She didn't know the intensity of how her husband would react/feel about it.

Thank you again for all your kind words & advice 💐

Just wanted to reiterate to the people that are calling me out for being reckless etc that as i have already posted previous times YES im very aware of this and I made one huge epic mistake that I will have to live with forever but I was willing to have the baby

As for my 3rd it wasnt even up for debate & I thank my absoloute lucky stars that it did happen as they have added such Joy to all of our lives & my husband 100 % agrees hes glad we did

I think due to a very unstable childhood he just blocks things out & isnt great at empathy so he just thought of his own worries & not mine, he told a family member after the abortion that he panicked and thought he might have a nervous break down if we went ahead , funny how he didnt have those feelings of panic whilst having unprotected sex isnt it . Anyways there wasnt much thought as to how it would affect me afterwards & he obviously wasnt expecting the huge emotional fallout that followed

Im not wanting people to feel sorry for me its just hard to forgive someone that willingly went ahead & then let the other person take the burden of absolutely everything , apologies dont mean much now

Honestly, did you hope that it would be the same as with your 3rd- ie, H not keen but worked out ok?

I think the fact you didn't want him to have a vasectomy is telling. At the moment of conception, your marriage was over. You resent him. If you'd kept the child, he would have resented you.

I think it's on you both to be honest and I'm not sure how you find a way back.

I'm really sorry that you have been subjected to this cruelty OP.

IMHE, once he knows an ultimatum gets him what he wants it won't stop there.

I faced ultimatum after ultimatum, even when I told my ex I would respect his decision to go and would support him to do so, eventually it took a year of reminding him his choice was made and he needed to get on with it, rebuild his life and stop punishing me and the children.
He then claimed he couldn't leave because I would not survive, even though I was not surviving the daily ultimatums.
After I insisted he leave he told me he would destroy me by making sure I had no family and no friends - this is the one promise he made good on!

I'm now estranged from my adult children which he promised he would do. He kept on telling them the marriage ended because of my bad behaviour - some of the stories he tells people about me are outrageous even 20y later.

@Rupertpenrysmistress

Hi op I could have written your post only it would have been my third. my DH issued a very similar ultimatum based around me ruining everyone's lives. I told him the effect it would have on me but still I felt pushed.

This was 10 years ago I won't go into details as I don't want to upset anyone and if I do I fear I can't come back. Anyway I have since had 2 lots of counseling and am on high dose AD, I drink to much to block it out which I am working on again. In short it changed me forever. I have told DH that I won't ever forgive him but I have accepted what I did to start to forgive myself.

I don't have wise words it eases but I do get triggered and spiral. I will never be the same person but, I have to go on with life for my 2 gorgeous DC. If you need to pm me you can. No-one in real life knows and I dread to think what they would feel about me if they did. It is so emotive and something I did not think I would ever do. For the record I don't judge people who do just didn't think it would be me (I struggle to use the terminology as it really upsets me).

This make me so sad, honestly people do not realise the consequences for the woman post A can be life changing , yes i know there is some responsibility on me but god it doesnt make it any easier

Honestly i feel your pain , cant imagine how hard this is for you 10 years on 💔, will deffo pm you if you dont mind talking about it again x

Just wanted to reiterate to the people that are calling me out for being reckless etc that as i have already posted previous times YES im very aware of this and I made one huge epic mistake that I will have to live with forever but I was willing to have the baby

I think perhaps people might be picking up on the fact that the two of you still haven't got anything sorted - maybe an unusual choice in view of the trauma this has caused

In the context of your history it's hard not to wonder if you're hoping it'll happen again, and that he won't mind so much next time so you'll get your fourth baby

OP - actually (to be a bit blunt) you weren’t willing to have the baby in those circumstances (without your DH’s support) were you ?

I can’t believe that you didn’t know your DH’s feelings about having a 4th child either. He’d made it clear before (even before your third child) and even with the jokes you said he made, it sounds to me like he was essentially saying “see, I was right. You wouldn’t cope with another”. I joke to my FH about sometimes wanting a third, but he knows I’m really joking and two are enough for us. And i know how he feels. Because we talk about important stuff (and also had those conversations early on and continually throughout our relationship before big decisions are made). How did you get into a situation where you didn’t know how many kids each other wanted before getting married / pregnant ?

In the circumstances, you both had choices to make as to contraception, sex and what would happen if there was “an accident”.

You both made many mistakes here. I just can’t believe you wouldn’t have known that he wouldn’t be happy about this. He put his position to you very clearly (and perhaps a bit bluntly) after the fact, which allowed you to make an informed decision (better than pretending it’s fine and ditching you later with a baby I’d say). You made your choice based on that.

You seem angry he didn’t think about this at the point of conception, but neither did you - not properly. You say you were happy to go ahead with a pregnancy, but clearly not in all scenarios.

You seem angry he’s not more upset over the abortion, but its what he wanted. He did not want another child (and let’s face it not many want a third, let alone fourth child). He should of course be sensitive to you, but those are his (perfectly valid) feelings.

I think there’s a lot of grief and anger to unpick here. You need to work out if you both can - there’s a reason a lot of relationship end at conception where there is a fundamental disagreement over what to do next.

@SoulofanAggron Yes she did. Neither of them did anything about contraception, and yes she did know how her husband would feel because of his reaction to number 3. I completely stand by what I said - it is shocking that neither of them thought it was important enough to get any form of contraception in place so that it didn't happen again.

And, respectfully, she was only okay with the possibility of being pregnant again if her husband was on board. Considering she knew he probably wouldn't be I can't get my head around the whole scenario. I can only think OP hoped it would be the same as what happened with child 3, and that her husband would be won over again. A very dangerous game to play as has been proven. Do I feel for the OP? Sure, abortions are mentally very taxing. But do I believe she has 0 role to play in this? Of course not. Every choice we make has a consequence, and some, like here, have very big consequences.

And, respectfully, she was only okay with the possibility of being pregnant again if her husband was on board.

@CottonCandy01 I don't think that was the case as such. She wanted the baby. She wasn't expecting her husband to say that if she didn't have an abortion the marriage was over. It's not like she thought 'ah ok, he isn't ok with it, fair enough, I'll have an abortion.' She didn't feel she had a choice. I get what you mean, but I don't think it's quite the same.

All of what we're saying is kind of moot. It's happened now so there's no point beating up OP about it.

@Elsaandana Do you think it was kind of a power struggle/stalemate, like, you didn't want to use contraception maybe partly because you wanted a baby, and he wanted you to be on the Pill/use the morning after pill or something?

How did you feel about the unprotected sex you were having? Did you want it at the time, or did you feel pushed into it?

I think you would benefit from some kind of individual counselling for yourself to help you get your head around what happened. Maybe to also consider your feelings about your husband and how he treated you.

It happened to a friend's mum. In fact, her partner hit her in the face when she said she didn't want the abortion. She said she never forgave him for making her feel she had to have an abortion. But they stayed together. She didn't forgive him for that particular thing but in some ways they get on well.

How do you feel about him/your marriage in general in other respects?

Elsaandana feel free to contact me. It may help to unpick the feelings. Myself and DH have had to have some tough discussions and ultimately he really did not want a 3rd. However being pregnant makes you emotional and it was too much I felt helpless. I remember crying my eyes out at the clinic. Whenever I see the road the clinic was on or the music playing on the way I feel sick. It is something I have to live with. On balance out lives would have been difficult, house/money my job so I just keep telling myself it was for the greater good. I cannot think about the child I feel I let down otherwise I would be lost forever.

As I said I got sterilised as my MH was so bad GP okayed it. I do feel better that I would never be in that position again.

Obviously its a contraversial subject everyone is going to have different opionions i do understand that

The part about willing to have the baby Is more that I wasnt having unprotected sex thinking oh well if it happens i will just get an abortion , I was willing in every aspect but I felt like I was utterly alone

Im sorry but does everyone have an agreed amount of exactly how many children they want pre marriage? who knows what direction peoples lives go in i think thats an odd think to say

For the record my first two were planned & he never ever said he just wanted two , we had extremley different upbringings so maybe he didnt have an idea of what he really truly wanted

I have taken fucking responsibilty , ive never experienced mental health like this before , I was having suicidal thoughts & have worked my arse off in counselling every week for a year bearing my soul to try & be at peace with it , my kids arent suffering, my husband certainly isnt suffering but I sure as hell am so what more responsibilty do you want me to take ? I put everybodys needs in front of mine despite how much I wanted the baby if thats not responsibilty I dont know what is

You asked for opinions OP, i know some of them probably seem harsh but it is relevant in this case, after you mention that his reaction was not good to number 3 initially, to ponder why contraception was not an important enough issue for either of you to sort. It's relevant here because you are angry at him for the ultimatum. You are angry at him for having unprotected sex with you when he didn't want another child. You are probably angry at yourself for allowing this situation to happen too.

All you can do is make peace with the decision you made and for the reasons you made them at the time. It isn't going to be an easy process - abortions are a hard thing for most people and it can take years. Anger is a normal emotion, only you know if you can move past this with your husband or not.

My opinion is, and will remain, that you were both irresponsible and foolish.

The thing that strikes me from your post, is your lack of value for yourself. Why are you letting DH call all the shots?
Take some responsibility for yourself and book yourself an appointment for long-term contraception, but also I personally would insist he has to wear a condom alongside whatever you have put in place. Play him at his own game, insist he either wears condoms, or has a vasectomy or NO SEX.

I can totally understand the feelings you are experiencing, betrayal and hurt. He abandoned you when you needed his support. That's a really, really hard thing to get over.
You could attend couples counselling, learn to communicate better, grieve the baby you lost [and yes you are entitled to do that, despite having had an abortion, you don't need to act like you didn't care just because he doesn't]
I think ultimately, men and women are different emotionally. Men are very good at detaching/burying their heads in the sand.

So turn it around, take responsibility for yourself, accept you are done have babies and become empowered and responsible.
Because without sounding harsh, your relationship sounds like it's up shit creek anyway..and the added anxiety of not being able to have sex safely [background worries of a condom failing, i bet] are a total passion killer too.

Stop making excuses and take steps to protect yourself. If he's worth it, he'll still be there as you get stronger and find your voice x

@Elsaandana

Obviously its a contraversial subject everyone is going to have different opionions i do understand that

The part about willing to have the baby Is more that I wasnt having unprotected sex thinking oh well if it happens i will just get an abortion , I was willing in every aspect but I felt like I was utterly alone

Im sorry but does everyone have an agreed amount of exactly how many children they want pre marriage? who knows what direction peoples lives go in i think thats an odd think to say

For the record my first two were planned & he never ever said he just wanted two , we had extremley different upbringings so maybe he didnt have an idea of what he really truly wanted

I have taken fucking responsibilty , ive never experienced mental health like this before , I was having suicidal thoughts & have worked my arse off in counselling every week for a year bearing my soul to try & be at peace with it , my kids arent suffering, my husband certainly isnt suffering but I sure as hell am so what more responsibilty do you want me to take ? I put everybodys needs in front of mine despite how much I wanted the baby if thats not responsibilty I dont know what is

Yes we did. I don't know anyone that didn't. It didn't go according to plan as I already said.

I am sorry that you are suffering, truly. It is a sad place to be and I think it will take a lot more work for you. Part of that is taking responsibility. You are not a passive party in your life.

If you were having unprotected sex, you should have had a discussion about consequences. We have many discussions and plans about all kinds of things. Of course they have to be flexible, but we discuss them.
I get the impression that you and your DH are not capable of having these types of discussions and just bumble along hoping for the best. This has led to the situation in which you now find yourself, and you are feeling hurt.

@Elsaandana

Obviously its a contraversial subject everyone is going to have different opionions i do understand that

The part about willing to have the baby Is more that I wasnt having unprotected sex thinking oh well if it happens i will just get an abortion , I was willing in every aspect but I felt like I was utterly alone

Im sorry but does everyone have an agreed amount of exactly how many children they want pre marriage? who knows what direction peoples lives go in i think thats an odd think to say

For the record my first two were planned & he never ever said he just wanted two , we had extremley different upbringings so maybe he didnt have an idea of what he really truly wanted

I have taken fucking responsibilty , ive never experienced mental health like this before , I was having suicidal thoughts & have worked my arse off in counselling every week for a year bearing my soul to try & be at peace with it , my kids arent suffering, my husband certainly isnt suffering but I sure as hell am so what more responsibilty do you want me to take ? I put everybodys needs in front of mine despite how much I wanted the baby if thats not responsibilty I dont know what is

I discussed how many children I wanted with DH before we married, we both felt we wanted two, but with the understanding that you can’t know that until you’ve had one!

We also both understood however that in order to proceed with trying for a baby (and unprotected sex is a form of TTC), both people have to be 100% on board at that time. That it would suck to be on different pages, but you can’t hold someone to what they believed they wanted months or years ago: a new baby is too big a commitment for that. You have to both still want it, because like you say things do change.

We had one and then when it came to discussing a second DH explained he was actually happy to stick with one and didn’t want more. I was upset initially of course but recognised that was his right not to have a child he didn’t want. My options then were to either accept that, or leave and hope for a second child with someone else. That wasn’t an option I wanted to take so I reconciled myself to sticking with one and I’m happy with that. If we both change our minds again in the future then we can try but this is our decision for the foreseeable.

Both people have to want a child for it to be fair to everyone to try for one imo. I think it’s far more strange not to discuss things like how many kids you want before getting married, certainly the vast majority of people I know closely had that conversation. Otherwise you’re opening yourself up to a lot of pain if you marry and it turns out one person wants one and the other wanted six.