To think this is financial abuse/control

[Oldat40]

As briefly as I can...

Left my controlling ex-husband seven years ago. He changed the locks to the large family home within hours of me going and I never was able to return. I got a settlement in court but, despite working ft, the settlement combined with my earnings was not enough to get a mortgage for a three-bed property (boys are 11 and 13, both with additional needs).

I spent 6k on a car as mine was going up it, and returned 4k to my parents for loan of legal fees. The rest I saved for when I could afford to get on the property ladder.

My ex was awarded 50/50 shared care by the courts as my years of abuse could not be "evidenced."

To date he has taken me to court on around five separate occasions and so has drained almost all of money in legal fees. I do not qualify for Legal Aid. On repeated occasions he had applied to gain more custody of the children but has so far been unsuccessful. He is currently taking me back to court again for another try. Should he win I will be required to pay him maintenance.

As it is 50/50 currently there is no maintenance due by either party. He refuses to pay costs for any extra-curricular activities so I end up picking up the bill for those.

He won't share clothes or school uniforms, anything like that. We are still privately renting seven years on. One bathroom between us all is not fun!

So now we are at a point where nearly all of the money I had saved has gone on legal fees fighting for the best interests of the children. We are not in a position now to get a mortgage.

Ex earns in excess of £115k pa, I earn around £15k pa. I have a partner who earns a small amount more than me, also working ft. He lives with a partner who does not work.

AIBU to think this is financial control/abuse?

It happened within our marriage very frequently but it hasn't ended up on divorce.

Not read everyone else's replies so sorry if I am repeating.

It is not financial abuse - but him wanting more than 50/50 custody is unacceptable!
What grounds is he basing this on?

Surely if you go to court and they have said 50/50 access he can't keep taking you back there?

Totally disagree with this. If one parent earns £100K and the other £10K then the higher earner should absolutely be required to contribute to extra curricular activities. They are not that expensive for someone earning that much. Even expensive swimming lessons would only be about £80 a month for two children. He's obviously saying no to get back at the mother.

Any parent has the right to decide whether or not they want to pay for extracurricular activities for their children, whether they are rich or on the breadline.

Some people have clearly no idea about coercive abuse and mental cruelty.

@toocold54

Not read everyone else's replies so sorry if I am repeating.

It is not financial abuse - but him wanting more than 50/50 custody is unacceptable!
What grounds is he basing this on?

Surely if you go to court and they have said 50/50 access he can't keep taking you back there?

Why is it unacceptable that a parent would want more than 50/50. Many parents, particularly mothers, have more than 50/50. I understand the OP doesn’t agree and no reason why she should, but that doesn’t make it unacceptable for the other parent to want it, particularly as the children have expressed this wish.

You lost me when you complained about the “one bathroom”. It’s normal for people to have only one bathroom. There are five of us with only one bathroom and no extra downstairs loo.

Parental alienation is counter intuitive
The problem is that at times, the voice of the children IS indeed their own and denying them their voice can do more damage than anything.

Even amongst siblings you will have different views. My eldest has remained in some contact with my ex and even though they are not close, they have an emotional bind with them. They are the least likely to be influenced of the three. The youngest wants nothing to do at all with him since 14, and the middle doesn't see him but will speak with him on the phone occasionally and during family gathering.

Parental alienation is an extremely subjective notion hence why it is dismissed by the court. Professionals though will pick up when a child speaks out of fear.

We've had a few reports about this thread and while we can see that the OP's getting some good advice and support, we're also concerned that some of the responses are pretty harsh so we're just posting a link to our Talk Guidelines and reminding everyone that Mumsnet is meant to be a place where parents support each other.

A few posters have suggested that we move this thread over to our Relationships topic so we're doing that now.

Its not Unreasonable to think the children are saying they want more contact with dad to shut him up

Why is it unacceptable that a parent would want more than 50/50. Many parents, particularly mothers, have more than 50/50.

Because unless there are reasons why they are better off with their dad, then 50/50 is best for the children.
So if there are no other reasons then it is unacceptable for him to want more and I would say that if it was the other way around too and OP was asking for more.

I’m sorry you are receiving horrible responses from people on here.
I understand parental alienation having been a victim of this myself. I believe you and I believe you are doing the right thing by your children by not giving up on them.

Its not Unreasonable to think the children are saying they want more contact with dad to shut him up
Of course not but it's for professional to judge.

As it is, it seems that his cases have gone nowhere so far, so clearly it's been dealt with appropriately.

What remains unclear is on what grounds he is taking it to court get again when he has been unsuccessful so far.

I commented on this thread early this morning and have only just come back. I know AIBU can be a dangerous place to post but I'm really shocked at some of the replies. People should feel ashamed.

So sorry for you OP. As the ongoing victim of someone who manipulates DC, their life with me and my relationship with them you have my sympathy for the situation you are in, as well as for the vicious reactions you've had on here.

I did go through family court with an abusive ex, and represented myself. Our income was £3 per month over the legal aid limit.

He wanted full custody and some other stuff, and had social services on his side, but he did not get most of what he wanted (and I knew he would get the things he did end up with anyway).

My Ex also kept all our children's photo's and wouldn't let me have any. This kind of shit just shows you how fucking horrible some people are.
I'm sorry you're going thru this, and yes, I do believe that you have been abused by this "man" in every way possible. It's hard to comprehend how nasty some people can be, until you're on the receiving end.

@eightxmaspaws, good post.

Op, I feel for you as understand how unfair it feels but you may have to get to the stage of acceptance as Courts don't deliver justice, just judgements that meet current laws.

I understand the desire to fight for your sons but if they are expressing a desire to spend more time with their dad then that is likely to be the end result...whether or not you spend money on a barrister or if you self rep. Cafcass is likely to listen to whatever the boys say, due to their ages. They may resent that you are not listening to them and forcing Cafcass. Speak to them, explain that you think 50:50 is best but that at their ages you respect their views. If it's an informal arrangement then you are more likely to be able to reverse it, should the boys want to change their minds.

Could you agree with Ex that it would he informal arrangement, you pay CMS if needed? Upshot is you avoid stress & money of court for all involved, you listen to your sons and it's informal so can go back to 50:50 if/when the boys want to come back.

Btw, I have no doubt your Ex is plausible but the threshold for abuse is very high, as you know...being a thoroughly unpleasant person, a manipulative Dad and toxic ex partner doesn't mean a court will stop your dc from living there.

I seem to recall you have a new baby and I guess that will be used against you. All I can advise is to not fight battles you won't win, spend your energies on good times with your dc and build a strong relationship with your partner so you can enjoy your baby.

www.theguardian.com/society/2016/dec/22/revealed-how-family-courts-allow-abusers-to-torment-their-victims
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/family-courts-domestic-abuse-child-custody-a9632361.html
www.insider.com/psychological-abusers-use-the-courts-to-control-their-victims-2018-7

It is Not finacial abuse, it is abuse through the court system. A very common strategy that abusive men use to continue their abuse and control of ex-partners and their children after they have gathered the strength to leave them. it is wrong and you have my deepest sympathies OP. The people saying "but he ha a right to try to extend contact with his children" are either idiots or being deliberately obtuse for their own ends. It is not about that. It i about control and revenge.

If he is constantly taking you to court for frivolous or malicious reasons, you can ask the court for a Section 91 order which says he can't take you to court any more unless he first gets the court's permission.

@toocold54

Why is it unacceptable that a parent would want more than 50/50. Many parents, particularly mothers, have more than 50/50.

Because unless there are reasons why they are better off with their dad, then 50/50 is best for the children.
So if there are no other reasons then it is unacceptable for him to want more and I would say that if it was the other way around too and OP was asking for more.

OP has another thread about her fiancé swearing at her because she’s having problems bonding with their baby & that makes him “frustrated” apparently.

Now, OP’s children obviously tell her what’s going in their father’s house so it’s not outside of the realms of possibility that information travels both ways & the children also tell their father what’s going on in OP’s house i.e. that step dad is swearing at mum. It can’t be a very pleasant environment for the children hence why they maybe want to spend more time with their father. I assume OP’s ex is going back to court because he thinks he now has more / new information that will influence residency.

I agree it’s not financial abuse but he’s an abusive arsehole who will bleed you dry of any money you have left, if you let him (through legal engagement)

You made a mistake by mentioning the one bathroom which got some posters’ backs up.

What’s your plan about safeguarding the rest of your settlement? Because you’re very likely to lose it all if you keep battling him with lawyers, his pockets are much deeper than yours. I really feel for you, but please look at this as pragmatically as you can

I thibk you should talk to your children if they really want to live at there dads so be it keep the 50/50 order but allow it to happen however stop paying for the after school activities that will become his responsibility and you can have the children for a reduced amount of time agree this to be temporary arrangement with no child maintenance changes in reality he would only get minimal support off you anyway less than 16% as you have another child and he isnt entitled to any inheritance money work bonuses or your partners money

He will only keep trying to win if you keep fighting

Wait is there another baby in all this? And a fiancé who is being angry, and other issues too?

It does change matters a bit, not beyond the realms of possibility that two teen boys might be keen to spend more time with their dad and less with a baby under the circumstances? It sounds like you’re in quite a stressful situation with your new child and partner OP, have you given any thought that your sons might be struggling to tell you that it’s not ideal at the moment, that they still want to see you loads but it’s easier to use their dad’s as a base now?

I think you need to listen to what the professionals say they are saying, and give serious consideration to their thoughts. If the boys think one thing and the professionals say what they are saying is their thoughts is true, i wouldn’t be jumping to assume parental alienation.

Many wealthy men seem to play this sort of game when their partner dares to leave them Im afraid.Our friend is married to a millionaire ,and he is also being financially abusive .These kinds of men seem to treat everything as a business deal .Your DC are possibly in awe of his lifestyle .However as they get older they will realise it is all for show and sadly their dad is not nice man! Maybe see if another Solicitor may be able to help?Some give an hour or so free .Take Care OP xx

@Oldat40

I think some of you are missing the point. Yes his money is his own, but is it reasonable of him to take back the settlement awarded in court so we can't buy suitable housing (which is what it wss meant for). As these savings are now going on legal fees.

But you're equally missing, that you're CHOOSING to spend the money on representation, when really you'd probably have been better off selfrepresting with the assistance of a McKenzie friend. Sad, but true.

You cannot hold him liable for that.

Yes, he's an arse and if parental alienation is at play that needs addressing. Have you spoken to the school? Asked for them to support the children? Spoken to ss regarding potential emotional abuse?

@Onjnmoeiejducwoapy

Wait is there another baby in all this? And a fiancé who is being angry, and other issues too?

It does change matters a bit, not beyond the realms of possibility that two teen boys might be keen to spend more time with their dad and less with a baby under the circumstances? It sounds like you’re in quite a stressful situation with your new child and partner OP, have you given any thought that your sons might be struggling to tell you that it’s not ideal at the moment, that they still want to see you loads but it’s easier to use their dad’s as a base now?

I think you need to listen to what the professionals say they are saying, and give serious consideration to their thoughts. If the boys think one thing and the professionals say what they are saying is their thoughts is true, i wouldn’t be jumping to assume parental alienation.

This ^^ with bells on it. I knew I'd read there was another baby involved. Totally understandable two teens would rather be with their dad and not with a baby and a sweary stepdad.

OP has another thread about her fiancé swearing at her because she’s having problems bonding with their baby & that makes him “frustrated” apparently.

I didn't realise OP had another thread. Obviously now I can understand the ex taking her to court and wanting more custody of the DCs if they are unhappy with the OP.