Do I expect too much? Sex and relationship advice for a male

[Ac198]

Hi

I am a 35 yo male. Been with my female partner for about 10 years. No kids. Both work. We have a nice house.

We have sex maybe 2 times a week. But its boring. I can tell my girlfriend is not enjoying it and doing it as a favour to me which I have.

We do the same position and she wants it over ASAP.

I have a strong sex drive and lots of sexual fantasies. For instance I would like her to give me oral sex and then kiss me, I would like to have sex on the sofa and around the house. Maybe dress up or wear sexy underwear.

We have regimental boring sex. I would do anything sexual for her, so I'm not selfish in that respect. But she does not want me to touch her that way. If I rub her she says she doesn't like the feeling. She is happy to cuddle.

Am I expecting to much? Is this how life is? I feel totally unsatisfied everyday. I have previous partners where sex was great and we both had freedom to express ourselves.

We argue a fair bit about various things. For me it boils down to serial frustration. But I can barely mention it to her. She says I'm lucky to have sex 2 or 3 times a week. But its over too quick. No foreplay and no after play.

If I could walk out and not have a messy split with the mortgage and be set up in a new home I would.

But our friendship, lovely home, fear of being single and covid keep me here.

I love her as a person still as well. But my attraction to her is less as I feel she is not attracted to me.

Please offer your thoughts and advice?

@tigerlily20

Art and music is created with the sole purpose of gratification for the viewer/listener. Likening a beautiful women to a piece of art or music suggests that the sole purpose of that woman is to be appreciated by the 'male gaze' her sole purpose is for the gratification of men... objectification. Surprised I needed to explain that one.

?? I think the main purpose of the art/music is the expression of something creative that is inside the artist/musician/composer ...

Thanks for clarifying that so much better than I could have, Bumpsadaisie. I wanted to RTFT before commenting, but there ye go, I'm always late to the party

Hi @LouJ85 and the OP if reading

I just wanted to mention that I completely agree that the OP shouldn't feel like he has to have unsatisfactory sex for the rest of his life. I am really glad you can represent a perspective of a women who has a full and fulfilling sex life that she values. I wish more women could feel the same, it is absolutely something to aspire to.

But I think a lot of us reacted strongly to your posts because you are representing that view from what appears to be a position where you are really happy and satisfied in your relationship, with a partner who is meeting your emotional and sexual needs.

As it happens, I am also in a relationship where I'm really happy and my partner meets my emotional and sexual needs. It's fantastic and rewarding in both sexual and non-sexual ways.

But from what the OP has written, his girlfriend is in a relationship where her emotional needs are not being met. As he said, they argue frequently and emotional empathy is something she says is lacking.

If my emotional needs were not being met in my relationship, I would be much less happy and much less keen on frequent (or possibly any) sex. I think that is the same for many women. I am not sure whether that might also be the case for you, but it is certainly true for lots of us.

So even putting aside the question of whether the OP's girlfriend is traumatised by her past experiences:

The question the OP asked is is he expecting too much to have a frequent and varied and mutually enjoyable sex life in his relationship.

If both people in the relationship are happy, fulfilled and having their needs respected and met - then he is quite possibly not expecting too much.

In the case where his girlfriend feels like her partner lacks empathy and doesn't emotionally support her, then I'd say yes. He is expecting too much.

If he leaves this relationship and finds another one where his new girlfriend also feels unsupported emotionally, then he will be expecting too much there as well.

Anyway- I don't want to be combative. But just wanted to say that as I thought it might explain why some posters have thought your answers were a bit dismissive.

I wish you really well with the baby. (Also - my sex life is the best it's been this year and I've got 3 kids now and been married for over 10 years, so I think you've got a pretty good chance on that front too!)

I can appreciate your points, and thank you for expressing them so articulately and respectfully. Which is far more than many have managed.

I do disagree entirely that I was dismissive, however. I repeatedly stated, numerous times, that the OP needed to communicate with his partner about the issues to hear why she feels that way, and what he can do differently to help. If she repeatedly shuts down this communication, that's not on him. It takes two people to be responsible for the success of a relationship and the minimum expectation, surely, is verbally communicating if you are unhappy to help your partner understand why. So I felt the OP was getting an awful lot of flack for "not understanding" his partner when to me, it didn't feel like she was in turn offering much by way of helping him to do so. He's not a mind reader any more than you and I. In my view that was dismissed by many posters. Many of us have encountered traumatic experiences in our lives - myself included. But that isn't my partner's fault unless he is the cause of that trauma directly, and therefore he deserves as a minimum for me to be openly communicating with him about how that affects me and what he can do differently. I do hope OP has made some headway with it, anyway.

Thank you for the well wishes regarding baby - and definitely encouraging to hear that all is not lost afterwards!

@PistachioPudding - sorry, didn't tag you!

OP, take into account everything @LouJ85 has said on this thread. This girl knows what she's talking about!

Many of us have encountered traumatic experiences in our lives - myself included. But that isn't my partner's fault unless he is the cause of that trauma directly, and therefore he deserves as a minimum for me to be openly communicating with him about how that affects me and what he can do differently.

I especially love this part.

@Ac198 - Please do come back and let us know how things went after giving her the letter. I hope it opened up the channel of communication you were hoping for.

@MaLarkinn

Run, run very fast op.

You've spoken to her, nothing changes. You will keep repeating this pattern and get nowhere, it's soul destroying.

Someone will be along in a moment to ask if you're pulling your weight around the house

You're so young, you should be having loads of great sex.

Definitely! She may not want to but is it a control or power play?! Probably! Some of the replies are ridiculous

I think it's crucial to understand the context of what OP's partner did explain. I'm hesitant to think she was "traumatised" by a former partner trying the anal route. If it was tried in a fun, loving context and she just didn't like it, there is no trauma. If that former partner didn't take her wants and desires into consideration, it's a completely different story (as well as with binge drinking and sexual encounters). However, that is not OP's fault and she cannot pin that on him.

I do believe OP's partner has no intention of increasing the experimenting/quantity/quality of sex. Maybe there is something else that needs to be spoken about. It would be in both their interests to be honest and open, to have a clear view on mutual goals in their future. Otherwise, OP will be left guessing and blaming himself.

But, OP, if she doesn't talk about anything important, her ambitions, desires, kinks and turn offs, how deeply connected are you really? In my relationship, stuff gets talked over, there is an interest and a desire to understand what exactly is a turn on and what not for my partner and vice versa. We don't just say "no" in advance.

I wish you well, OP, I hope it's possible to get through this with your partner.

Hi again @LouJ85

Thank you for your reply. I hope you take this response also in the spirit of respectful debate. I also trust that since theOP has signed off, he won't mind me hijacking the thread to respond again!

I don't think you intended to be dismissive. I think you were expressing a view about the moral obligations on each of the two parties in the relationship.

You said:
Many of us have encountered traumatic experiences in our lives - myself included. But that isn't my partner's fault unless he is the cause of that trauma directly, and therefore he deserves as a minimum for me to be openly communicating with him about how that affects me and what he can do differently.

I of course agree that where someone's new partner didn't cause their past trauma, the consequences of the trauma are not their partner's fault. But what I find difficult about what you have said is that it doesn't seem to apply the same logic to the person who suffered the trauma. A person who suffers sexual assault doesn't cause it either. It isn't their fault. And they don't get to choose the consequences of it.
The consequences are different for everybody. Sometimes, a person is capable of talking about it. Sometimes, even doing that is too retraumatising.Sometimes, a person is capable of remembering the assault event. Sometimes they aren't. Sometimes, a person is capable of explaining the effect the trauma has had on them. Sometimes they are too traumatised to be able to even be able to identify the effects let alone articulate them.

So what I find difficult about your statement is that it assumes that each partner is capable of openly communicating about their past trauma and its effects and how they can be mitigated. In that sense, this viewpoint is dismissive of the possibility that perhapsthey are not capable of doing so.

I am not saying that the responsibility for fixing the absence of communication lies with the new partner. Of course it doesn't. But saying that anyone who has suffered sexual assault has morally failed if they don't openly communicate about it seems - and I'm sorry, because I don't think you meant this, but it seems to be the logical consequence - to be victim blaming. And I am not at all comfortable with that position.

In relation to the OP and his girlfriend, this may be irrelevant. Perhaps she is not traumatised. Perhaps she is just choosing, with full autonomy, to be obtuse and to leave him in the dark. Perhaps she is in fact quite selfish. We of course cannot know. But the way the thread panned out, it seemed that the OP had previously been aware of the sexual assault and drink spiking, but oblivious to the possibility that sexual assault trauma could have behavioural and emotional consequences of the type that she seems to have been displaying. Now that he is aware of that - through other poster's explanations - it would seem incredibly insensitive for him to doggedly maintain a position that she is at fault for failing to communicate to him about their sexual relationship, and her issues relating to physical intimacy,without him acknowledging at least the possibility that she may not be capable of doing so.

Anyway. Again, I really hope that this isn't what is going on. If it is, of course it doesn't lessen the OP's frustration - he has been in a difficult position for a decade. And of course there is no moral obligation for him to stay if he is unhappy, or to attempt to fix anything even if he was able to do so. But I was just very uncomfortable with a blanket position that everyone should be able to discuss openly their past trauma, how it affects them and what their partner can do to help manage it. Because while I agree that should be the case, in an aspirational sense, Ijust don't think that that is always possible and that is just one of the many tragedies of sexual assault.

I really don't think this is so deep.

I think the entire thread was just assuage his guilt so he could dump her .
He had already detatched , she initiated all sex, he went along for the ride, knowing full well he want's rid of her.
He never tried with this woman.
Him bringing up the adoration of her body was to gain sympathy as though he had really tried to fix their problems, and still loved her.
Also mentioning her past awful experiences was him basically saying "at least I'm not as bad as the people who she had before me"

This man came across as quite eloquent, but it was just a diversion.

The real question he was asking was "Is it ok to dump my partner, even though she doesn't deserve it because I'm bored and need to try other women"

Not complicated, he was a git, and probably will never settle longer than x ammount of years due to his low boredom threshold and self entitlement. He will still be in this cycle till he is in old age.

As one poster recently said 95% of divorced and separated men are just circulating trash maybe he's going to be one of them.

Fine.

@PistachioPudding

Hi again *@LouJ85*

Thank you for your reply. I hope you take this response also in the spirit of respectful debate. I also trust that since theOP has signed off, he won't mind me hijacking the thread to respond again!

I don't think you intended to be dismissive. I think you were expressing a view about the moral obligations on each of the two parties in the relationship.

You said:
Many of us have encountered traumatic experiences in our lives - myself included. But that isn't my partner's fault unless he is the cause of that trauma directly, and therefore he deserves as a minimum for me to be openly communicating with him about how that affects me and what he can do differently.

I of course agree that where someone's new partner didn't cause their past trauma, the consequences of the trauma are not their partner's fault. But what I find difficult about what you have said is that it doesn't seem to apply the same logic to the person who suffered the trauma. A person who suffers sexual assault doesn't cause it either. It isn't their fault. And they don't get to choose the consequences of it.
The consequences are different for everybody. Sometimes, a person is capable of talking about it. Sometimes, even doing that is too retraumatising.Sometimes, a person is capable of remembering the assault event. Sometimes they aren't. Sometimes, a person is capable of explaining the effect the trauma has had on them. Sometimes they are too traumatised to be able to even be able to identify the effects let alone articulate them.

So what I find difficult about your statement is that it assumes that each partner is capable of openly communicating about their past trauma and its effects and how they can be mitigated. In that sense, this viewpoint is dismissive of the possibility that perhapsthey are not capable of doing so.

I am not saying that the responsibility for fixing the absence of communication lies with the new partner. Of course it doesn't. But saying that anyone who has suffered sexual assault has morally failed if they don't openly communicate about it seems - and I'm sorry, because I don't think you meant this, but it seems to be the logical consequence - to be victim blaming. And I am not at all comfortable with that position.

In relation to the OP and his girlfriend, this may be irrelevant. Perhaps she is not traumatised. Perhaps she is just choosing, with full autonomy, to be obtuse and to leave him in the dark. Perhaps she is in fact quite selfish. We of course cannot know. But the way the thread panned out, it seemed that the OP had previously been aware of the sexual assault and drink spiking, but oblivious to the possibility that sexual assault trauma could have behavioural and emotional consequences of the type that she seems to have been displaying. Now that he is aware of that - through other poster's explanations - it would seem incredibly insensitive for him to doggedly maintain a position that she is at fault for failing to communicate to him about their sexual relationship, and her issues relating to physical intimacy,without him acknowledging at least the possibility that she may not be capable of doing so.

Anyway. Again, I really hope that this isn't what is going on. If it is, of course it doesn't lessen the OP's frustration - he has been in a difficult position for a decade. And of course there is no moral obligation for him to stay if he is unhappy, or to attempt to fix anything even if he was able to do so. But I was just very uncomfortable with a blanket position that everyone should be able to discuss openly their past trauma, how it affects them and what their partner can do to help manage it. Because while I agree that should be the case, in an aspirational sense, Ijust don't think that that is always possible and that is just one of the many tragedies of sexual assault.

I'm aware that not everyone can discuss past trauma easily and I do not regard it as a "moral failing" if you cannot. So no, that's not what I meant

(FYI - in my job I work with trauma victims all of the time. I'm very aware of how it can manifest differently for different people).

However, you're absolutely right in that we just don't know, at all, if that's what's going on for OP's partner. We know absolutely nothing of the circumstances of the previous sexual encounters in terms of their direct and ongoing effect on her. And many posters had jumped to "well she's clearly traumatised you awful man". We just don't have that information available to us, to make that judgment. So I felt that a little unfair to the OP.

I'm signing off from any further debate on here now to focus on other priorities (not least my pregnancy).

Again, thank you for being one of few posters able to debate and challenge respectfully.

@PistachioPudding

I'll just add that, part of my job where I work with people with history of trauma, is to try to access these memories safely if they are able to and explore and assert how these might be impacting their life currently. As part of that, if a person was in a relationship and their partner's behaviour was somehow re traumatising for them, I would be supporting them to find ways to communicate that so they can gain their partner's support.

So - I do understand your point. Perhaps more so than you realise.

But in the context of this particular thread, where we don't know for sure that a significant trauma response is the reason for the OP's partner's behaviour (as you also acknowledge yourself, there are indeed other possibilities), I didn't think it appropriate that a blanket "she's clearly traumatised and you are a repellent person" (which was one comment directed at OP), was particularly constructive or fair. Perhaps - "OP, she may be traumatised and struggling to communicate that to you", would have been a more balanced response given we just don't know. Had the OP's partner come on here to start a thread along the lines of "I'm traumatised and my partner wants more sex and I can't cope", my angle would have been slightly different (albeit the key message would still have been for her to seek support to help her find ways to open up to her partner about it). But my approach would have been slightly different where there was definitive evidence of trauma (ie a person saying themselves that that's what's happening for them).

I'm not sure I've made that very clear! But hopefully it makes some sense.

But what I find difficult about what you have said is that it doesn't seem to apply the same logic to the person who suffered the trauma. A person who suffers sexual assault doesn't cause it either. It isn't their fault. And they don't get to choose the consequences of it.
The consequences are different for everybody. Sometimes, a person is capable of talking about it. Sometimes, even doing that is too retraumatising.Sometimes, a person is capable of remembering the assault event. Sometimes they aren't. Sometimes, a person is capable of explaining the effect the trauma has had on them. Sometimes they are too traumatised to be able to even be able to identify the effects let alone articulate them.

Having worked with many survivors of childhood sexual abuse, I understand all of this more than you know, and I don't dispute any of it. But until we know for sure that trauma is what is causing the OP's partner's behaviour (and in the absence of being able to talk directly to her), I don't see the precise relevance at this stage. The OP isn't a therapist and as you say, it's not his job to unpick all of this. He's offered to a write a letter to see if that opens up the channels of communication in a different way, which I do think is a sensible idea. Hopefully it helped (I do wish he would come back and update!). And I don't dispute that awareness of the above might be useful for the OP, just in case that's the reason underlying his partner's behaviour. But like I say, we don't know at this point, and I felt there was a lot of assumption, that ended up being directed in a quite rude and unfair way towards OP.

I can’t sit and RTFT because it would take me hours so I’m unsure whether you’ve had a serious, sit down conversation with her about this but it needs to happen. You are only 35, you can’t go on feeling bored and unsatisfied forever and you have plenty of time to find someone who will satisfy you.

It’s normal to have less sex in a LTR, it simply isn’t reasonable to expect someone to still have sex every day after ten years. Having said that, the times when you do have sex shouldn’t feel tedious and forced at all. You don’t have children so I’d expect you to definitely still have quite a wild sex life, I know children dilute things a lot because it isn’t practical to have sofa sex on a Sunday morning anymore .

Have a conversation with her, if she still fobs you off then you need to consider separating. I know it hurts because you clearly love her but you’re so young, too young to ditch your sex life.

Thanks @LouJ85, it feels like we are on the same page now (33 pages in!). Thanks very much for considering and responding to my post, I appreciate it. Best of luck with the pregnancy and beyond

Sex should be mutually enjoyed and is a big part of a happy relationship. I am 36 and my partner is 39. We have been together for nearly 10 years and we have two children. Our only frustration is that we can't get our hands on each other often enough! Family life gets in the way and puts a massive strain on any relationship. If you are having intimacy problems now, they will be amplified in the future and with children in the mix it will be even harder to break away. To be honest it already sounds like you want to leave but just need to be told to go and that's ok, sometimes it takes a bit of encouragement to do what your heart already wants to do. Just make sure you do it all in the right order... make sure you leave before someone turns your head and can offer you the intimacy you need.

@Onthedunes

I really don't think this is so deep.

I think the entire thread was just assuage his guilt so he could dump her .
He had already detatched , she initiated all sex, he went along for the ride, knowing full well he want's rid of her.
He never tried with this woman.
Him bringing up the adoration of her body was to gain sympathy as though he had really tried to fix their problems, and still loved her.
Also mentioning her past awful experiences was him basically saying "at least I'm not as bad as the people who she had before me"

This man came across as quite eloquent, but it was just a diversion.

The real question he was asking was "Is it ok to dump my partner, even though she doesn't deserve it because I'm bored and need to try other women"

Not complicated, he was a git, and probably will never settle longer than x ammount of years due to his low boredom threshold and self entitlement. He will still be in this cycle till he is in old age.

As one poster recently said 95% of divorced and separated men are just circulating trash maybe he's going to be one of them.

Fine.

All of this!

Well said.

I massively got the feeling we were maybe only hearing one side of the story. There are many reasons people are disconnected we really cannot judge if he’s being unreasonable or not as none of us know the 2 people concerned.

@yetmorecrap

I massively got the feeling we were maybe only hearing one side of the story. There are many reasons people are disconnected we really cannot judge if he’s being unreasonable or not as none of us know the 2 people concerned.

Precisely.

@PistachioPudding

Thanks *@LouJ85*, it feels like we are on the same page now (33 pages in!). Thanks very much for considering and responding to my post, I appreciate it. Best of luck with the pregnancy and beyond

Thank you!

The reason I said as I did above about 2 sides to many stories , is that my H could easily have written this post , but fail to mention his past emotional affair (at a point when I still felt 100%) or his cracking secretive porn habit ,none of which make me feel particularly affectionate or adventurous- to be frank I feel he should think he’s lucky I’ve stayed , still care, am kind and supportive and look after him very well and if thats not enough then as far as I’m concerned the ball is in his court to do something about it- maybe OPs wife has similar issues- who knows!!