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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Thousands of messages between them

238 replies

Shockedupsetscared · 28/01/2021 16:30

It's such a fucking cliche. I found out yesterday my DH has been messaging a woman. He doesn't know I know, I saw his phone while he was using his indoor bike. Some app I'd never even heard of, I looked at it because I was curious. I don't know how long it's been going on, I couldn't even scroll back far enough to the beginning but it's months. There are literally thousands of messages between them. Lots of them explicit, photos and videos, but lots of them not. In a weird way it's the ones that aren't that are worse, is that stupid? They're messaging every single day, there are dozens of messages between them while he's at work. He's told her about stuff going on at his office that he hasn't told me yet, mundane stuff. Stuff about the kids, we have two teenage DC. I work a couple of evenings a week and he tells her when I'm due to work so they can plan their "playtime" together when they swap photos and videos. From what I can see they're planning to meet when Covid allows. He's told her he loves her but they talk about not breaking up their marriages. I've pretended I have a migraine since yesterday because I can't face him but I don't know what to say or do. What the fuck do I do?

OP posts:
MrsWindass · 29/01/2021 10:29

How did he meet her ?

ravenmum · 29/01/2021 10:29

Saying that OP should have addressed this problem herself is saying that sex every few months in a long-term relationship with children is a really, really obvious sign that the relationship is in great difficulty. It's saying that OP should have known her dh wouldn't be able to live like that in the long term.

If you have a strong sex drive, that might be an obvious statement to you. But if you have a lower sex drive and are fine with that much sex, presumably that is hard to imagine and thus not very obvious at all? You might realise your partner would like more, but not be aware of quite how bad things are.

In my experience, i fact neither partner might be consciously aware that things have reached breaking point - until it actually happens.

This is also why the dh does not come to his wife beforehand and say "Look, Sally, if we don't change things soon, I think I'm likely to have an affair in the next few months, so we'd better really address our problems properly now and prevent that."

ravenmum · 29/01/2021 10:39

I don't know what I want. The thought of us not being married makes me panic. We have a nice life, we get on, we laugh, the kids are happy.
I wasn't as happy as you, but the thought of breaking up still made me panic. I don't think the panic is very informative.

I do agree that a partner who is also a friend is a great thing. But it is not unique - if you break up, you can still have that again. And yes, it does need to be "a partner who is also a friend", not just a friend.

You've been feeling unhappy about yourself for a long time - probably not just about your body? Whether this means the end of your marriage or not, I do hope that this crisis will be what you needed to get your confidence back. (Worked for me.)

Shockedupsetscared · 29/01/2021 10:39

MrsWindass I have no idea. The messages I saw don't give any clue to how they met but judging by some of the questions they've asked each other, they don't know each other in real life. So online somehow, I suppose.

OP posts:
chemicalworld · 29/01/2021 10:41

You still aren't acknowledging the sex issue OP

pleasegodno · 29/01/2021 10:44

If you have a strong sex drive, that might be an obvious statement to you. But if you have a lower sex drive and are fine with that much sex, presumably that is hard to imagine and thus not very obvious at all?

I do agree this is part of the problem, from comments the no-sex partner makes, such as OP's ' I thought he would just sort him out with porn' it does seem that they just have a different experience of sex, that it is not an enjoyable or bonding or emotional experience for them and so they don't really get that it is for their partner, and think that wanking to porn will suffice.

Having said that though, given how common affairs are, and given if a partner has tried to address this, I do think there is still quite a lot of head-in-sand going on. It doesn't take much to connect the dots between 'affairs are common' and , 'my husband wants sex I am not having sex with him' to realise your marriage could soon be running into trouble.

Shockedupsetscared · 29/01/2021 10:45

What am I not acknowledging? I've said it's not great that it's dwindled and that's mostly down to me, I've said he did try, that we talked. I've evn said I could almost understand if he'd just had a sexual fling.

OP posts:
pleasegodno · 29/01/2021 10:46

@Shockedupsetscared

MrsWindass I have no idea. The messages I saw don't give any clue to how they met but judging by some of the questions they've asked each other, they don't know each other in real life. So online somehow, I suppose.
My guess then is that he went onto one of the married peoples dating sites after he realised there was not point trying to revitalise his sex life with you, as you never responded to this.
pleasegodno · 29/01/2021 10:48

I've evn said I could almost understand if he'd just had a sexual fling

You're still not getting it. Sex to him appears to not just be physical.
As PP said, many men want the full emotional, relationship that comes with a physically intimate relationship. And your husband appears to be one of them.

slidingdrawers · 29/01/2021 10:49

I'm sorry OP. This woman has offered him newness, excitement and a good deal of confidence in herself. Your relationship albeit a good one from what you write is not based on that, rather companionship, duty and child rearing. In a long term relationship that is completely normal and understandable. Regardless he has had his head turned. It is salvageable, yes quite probably but first and foremost I would start to prioritise you, build your own confidence. Is the sex issue possibly due to peri/menopause (I'm making an assumption due to the age of your DC)? HRT may be a good starting point if so to get you back on track.

ravenmum · 29/01/2021 10:51

Having said that though, given how common affairs are, and given if a partner has tried to address this, I do think there is still quite a lot of head-in-sand going on. It doesn't take much to connect the dots between 'affairs are common' and , 'my husband wants sex I am not having sex with him' to realise your marriage could soon be running into trouble.
We were still having regular sex when my exh had his affair, so I didn't have that extra tip, but even when there were huge red flags waving in my face saying "HE'S HAVING AN AFFAIR", I still couldn't believe it, as I had this image of him as being the morally more upright one in our relationship - the goodie-goodie who would never do wrong, the guy who got all As in school, was universally loved, etc. Even when it was very "obvioous", I still thought he just wasn't the type. Now I know there's no such thing as a type - but it's a lesson not everyone has learned.

MrsWindass · 29/01/2021 10:52

@Shockedupsetscared

MrsWindass I have no idea. The messages I saw don't give any clue to how they met but judging by some of the questions they've asked each other, they don't know each other in real life. So online somehow, I suppose.
As has been said already , looks are not the drive here . She is however fulfilling his feelings of being appreciated , fun , valued etc . Once guys get hooked up in a situation like this they get the "rush" and find it very difficult to stay away . You are certainly going to have to tackle this head on and tell him you know . You don't need to know right now what you want to do and any decision is not "forever". His attitude and behaviour will aid you in your way forward . You know there are issues in your marriage so you both need to be brutally honest .
ravenmum · 29/01/2021 10:56

@Shockedupsetscared

What am I not acknowledging? I've said it's not great that it's dwindled and that's mostly down to me, I've said he did try, that we talked. I've evn said I could almost understand if he'd just had a sexual fling.
I think what pleasegod may be trying to say - that I've seen mentioned on MN a few times - is that some people see sexual refusal as a rejection of their love; that for some people, sex and love are inextricably linked.

Plus - would you really prefer him going to a prostitute or treating a woman like one?

StartupRepair · 29/01/2021 11:06

I think oP needs support to process the shock and betrayal rather than an analysis of how she may have contributed to events. Her husband has taken the decision to be unfaithful.

daddyshark1976 · 29/01/2021 11:07

hackspirit.com/what-makes-a-man-leave-his-wife-for-another-woman-the-brutal-truth/

  1. Dissatisfaction with their marriage

It doesn’t take a genius to figure this out. If he is dissatisfied with his marriage, then he’ll seek to find satisfaction elsewhere.

This is just one of the reasons a married man can develop feelings outside his relationship.

For example, if sex with his partner has become tiresome, and the partner is showing no signs to improve or make it better, then he may search for sexual satisfaction elsewhere.

It may have nothing to do with sex, either. Perhaps his wife is neglecting him emotionally, making him feel empty and hollow.

Subconsciously he has worked out that he needs to fill that emotional void somewhere else.

Getting to a point where you want to cheat can be an incredibly difficult and hopeless path, and for many people, the dissatisfaction forces one to travel down this path must be long-term and immense.

We all have needs, and keeping those needs satisfied is an important part of keeping a happy relationship.

  1. They feel a lack of emotional connection

A key factor for leaving a relationship is feeling unvalued and neglected.

He may want to leave and find someone else to connect with to feel a sense of value within himself.

We all have feelings, and if his wife is not validating those feelings, then staying in the marriage may make him feel worse. Men want to feel appreciated and loved as well.

According to social psychologist, Dylan Selterman “lack of love is a powerful motivation — it’s definitely one of the stronger ones.”

It’s a good idea to talk to your husband about how they are feeling in the relationship.

You might think things are great, but how does your partner really feel? Are there areas of your relationship that could be filled by someone else?

You don’t have to be all things to your partner, but a sense of support, love, and understanding is important.

If your partner is in a situation where they unload their feelings on someone else because they feel like they can’t talk to you, the likelihood of that relationship progressing into infidelity increases.

  1. He doesn’t feel needed or essential

A surefire reason that a husband may leave their wife for another woman is if he no longer feels essential to his wife.

Perhaps his wife is an independent woman that has her own life on lock and doesn’t need a man in her life to make it complete.

You’re probably wondering: How could this possibly be a problem for a man?

According to the “hero instinct” theory coined by relationship expert James Bauer, men have an innate desire to feel needed and essential to their woman.

In other words, they want to feel like a hero to their woman.

But if his wife isn’t giving him this feeling, then he may seek that feeling elsewhere.

I know it sounds ridiculous. Women these days don’t need a man to be her hero.

And I couldn’t agree more.

But the truth is, this is deeply rooted in male biology. Men have a thirst for the respect and admiration from their woman.

They want to step up to the plate for the woman in their lives and provide for and protect her.

James Bauer says that it’s up to women to bring this instinct to the fore in men.

While this desire is usually innate in a man, if his wife isn’t providing him any opportunity to act like a hero to his wife, then he may lose interest.

To learn how to trigger the hero instinct in your man, check out his free video here. James provides several unique tips to make him feel like a hero.

Yes, you’re an independent woman and that’s great. This isn’t about losing that side of you.

In a completely authentic way, it’s just about making the man feel more needed and essential in the relationship.

Here’s a link to Jame Bauer’s video again.

Some ideas are game-changers. For relationships, I think this is one of them.

  1. Different drives in the bedroom

This is a common reason relationships end.

After all, if one partner finds themselves wanting it all the time, and the other doesn’t want it at all, then that’s obviously a problem.

According to Dr. Rachel Sussman, a licensed therapist and relationship expert, “action in the bedroom is really important, and it shouldn’t be something you avoid having”.

If you’re in the early days in your relationship, then it’s normal to want each other all the time.

After that period wears off, it’s natural for that desire to taper off, but it shouldn’t taper off completely.

According to Sussman, “sex is a good barometer for how the relationship is going” and that “either side of the spectrum isn’t good.”

So, how can you work out whether your sex life is the real issue in your relationship?

According to Carol Queen in Bustle, your relationship shouldn’t be too dependent on sex that “you don’t seem to have a connection beyond the sexual.”

But on the other hand, lack of attraction shouldn’t cause emotional issues in the relationship, either. If it does, then clearly there’s a problem.

However, if you’re experiencing issues in the bedroom, it doesn’t mean that you must end the relationship right away.

It’s important to try different things to see if you can work through it.

But if you feel like you have tried all that you can and the issues aren’t improving, then he might be thinking that it’s time to end the relationship.

ravenmum · 29/01/2021 11:10

Umm, I think OP has probably got the point now... Also not sure what the point is of telling OP it is her fault?
Even if it was, what's she meant to do, turn back time?

MrsWindass · 29/01/2021 11:11

@daddyshark1976

hackspirit.com/what-makes-a-man-leave-his-wife-for-another-woman-the-brutal-truth/
  1. Dissatisfaction with their marriage

It doesn’t take a genius to figure this out. If he is dissatisfied with his marriage, then he’ll seek to find satisfaction elsewhere.

This is just one of the reasons a married man can develop feelings outside his relationship.

For example, if sex with his partner has become tiresome, and the partner is showing no signs to improve or make it better, then he may search for sexual satisfaction elsewhere.

It may have nothing to do with sex, either. Perhaps his wife is neglecting him emotionally, making him feel empty and hollow.

Subconsciously he has worked out that he needs to fill that emotional void somewhere else.

Getting to a point where you want to cheat can be an incredibly difficult and hopeless path, and for many people, the dissatisfaction forces one to travel down this path must be long-term and immense.

We all have needs, and keeping those needs satisfied is an important part of keeping a happy relationship.

  1. They feel a lack of emotional connection

A key factor for leaving a relationship is feeling unvalued and neglected.

He may want to leave and find someone else to connect with to feel a sense of value within himself.

We all have feelings, and if his wife is not validating those feelings, then staying in the marriage may make him feel worse. Men want to feel appreciated and loved as well.

According to social psychologist, Dylan Selterman “lack of love is a powerful motivation — it’s definitely one of the stronger ones.”

It’s a good idea to talk to your husband about how they are feeling in the relationship.

You might think things are great, but how does your partner really feel? Are there areas of your relationship that could be filled by someone else?

You don’t have to be all things to your partner, but a sense of support, love, and understanding is important.

If your partner is in a situation where they unload their feelings on someone else because they feel like they can’t talk to you, the likelihood of that relationship progressing into infidelity increases.

  1. He doesn’t feel needed or essential

A surefire reason that a husband may leave their wife for another woman is if he no longer feels essential to his wife.

Perhaps his wife is an independent woman that has her own life on lock and doesn’t need a man in her life to make it complete.

You’re probably wondering: How could this possibly be a problem for a man?

According to the “hero instinct” theory coined by relationship expert James Bauer, men have an innate desire to feel needed and essential to their woman.

In other words, they want to feel like a hero to their woman.

But if his wife isn’t giving him this feeling, then he may seek that feeling elsewhere.

I know it sounds ridiculous. Women these days don’t need a man to be her hero.

And I couldn’t agree more.

But the truth is, this is deeply rooted in male biology. Men have a thirst for the respect and admiration from their woman.

They want to step up to the plate for the woman in their lives and provide for and protect her.

James Bauer says that it’s up to women to bring this instinct to the fore in men.

While this desire is usually innate in a man, if his wife isn’t providing him any opportunity to act like a hero to his wife, then he may lose interest.

To learn how to trigger the hero instinct in your man, check out his free video here. James provides several unique tips to make him feel like a hero.

Yes, you’re an independent woman and that’s great. This isn’t about losing that side of you.

In a completely authentic way, it’s just about making the man feel more needed and essential in the relationship.

Here’s a link to Jame Bauer’s video again.

Some ideas are game-changers. For relationships, I think this is one of them.

  1. Different drives in the bedroom

This is a common reason relationships end.

After all, if one partner finds themselves wanting it all the time, and the other doesn’t want it at all, then that’s obviously a problem.

According to Dr. Rachel Sussman, a licensed therapist and relationship expert, “action in the bedroom is really important, and it shouldn’t be something you avoid having”.

If you’re in the early days in your relationship, then it’s normal to want each other all the time.

After that period wears off, it’s natural for that desire to taper off, but it shouldn’t taper off completely.

According to Sussman, “sex is a good barometer for how the relationship is going” and that “either side of the spectrum isn’t good.”

So, how can you work out whether your sex life is the real issue in your relationship?

According to Carol Queen in Bustle, your relationship shouldn’t be too dependent on sex that “you don’t seem to have a connection beyond the sexual.”

But on the other hand, lack of attraction shouldn’t cause emotional issues in the relationship, either. If it does, then clearly there’s a problem.

However, if you’re experiencing issues in the bedroom, it doesn’t mean that you must end the relationship right away.

It’s important to try different things to see if you can work through it.

But if you feel like you have tried all that you can and the issues aren’t improving, then he might be thinking that it’s time to end the relationship.

While I agree that there are certain truths in there , I really don't like the tone or the wording of that article . It suggests that it is for women to pander to a man's every need .
daddyshark1976 · 29/01/2021 11:12

I agree the article doesn't have the best wording, and I should have maybe balanced it out with alternative views from other similar articles, but the underlying issues are valid.

ravenmum · 29/01/2021 11:14

@daddyshark1976 I understand why you want to explain to the world why you're having an affair, but - maybe open your own thread? How is it going to help OP on this one?

daddyshark1976 · 29/01/2021 11:19

[quote ravenmum]@daddyshark1976 I understand why you want to explain to the world why you're having an affair, but - maybe open your own thread? How is it going to help OP on this one?[/quote]
I am attempting to help, by providing a male perspective, rather than have my pitch fork out and wearing a we hate all men t-shirt.

ElspethFlashman · 29/01/2021 11:19

Also, I hate to say it, but sex twice a year with someone who doesn't want to be having sex is actually pretty soul destroying.

I see this so much on here. Low libido partners absolutely shocked when their lovely husband starts an emotional affair. I remember one long running thread where this lady came on incandescent, blindsided, shocked that her husnand had started an inappropriate friendship with a neighbour. I mean, everything was fine! They were perfect! They still laughed and went on holiday! I mean sure she hadn't wanted any intimacy in years but so what??

When an integral part of a marriage goes, don't be suprised if it leads to a crumbling of other parts of the marriage.

And we have female posters on here regularly who have been denied sex by their partners for years and are so bitter about it. Possibly their partners have no idea, or don't really care. But the posters are always saying "I'll stick it out until the kids go, because we get on OK, but I'm not living like this for the rest of my life, I'm too young".

This guy has been far far far unhappier than you realised OP.

ravenmum · 29/01/2021 11:22

I am attempting to help, by providing a male perspective, rather than have my pitch fork out and wearing a we hate all men t-shirt.
I meant: what practical help are you providing regarding OP's specific situation? As I pointed out upthread, 1) she must have got the idea now, 2) she can't turn back time and 3) this thread is asking for support for her.

There are ways to be fair to men without dropping in a wall of text about how women have to behave better.

gaijinetal · 29/01/2021 11:24

He could have said, having tried to improve your sex life a couple of times, that he would consider separating of you two couldn't improve it, with counselling or whatever. He could've been upfront, honest and decent.

Instead he's chosen to do the sleazy, dishonest thing.

How would he feel if you were doing this behind his back (if he had a low sex drive and lack of body confidence (not that most men let that bother them or affect their sex life!)?
It's a huge betrayal of you, your marriage and family (even if they haven't physically had sex yet).

I'd be tempted to call his bluff (no matter what you actually end up doing) and tell him to the get the fk out and go and set up house with his other woman ...oh bug she's not even single, is that right (?) And is taking the piss out of her partner too. Let them.blow their stable, cushy, respectable lives apart .. and see how enthusiastic they are to really be together. (I'm guessing not).

They're operating in a fantasy, parallel world .. but have overlooked the fact that what they're doing would devastate their partners and wreck all trust etc.

Is also find out who her partner is and tell him; just because of how angry of would make me that she knows that my husband she's messing with, waiting til I go til she sexts him etc. That's not to say I think she owes me anything, he's the one who's in a relationship,but she's still treated me with utmost disrespect and disdain; so I'd return the favour for her in her life.

daddyshark1976 · 29/01/2021 11:27

@ravenmum

I am attempting to help, by providing a male perspective, rather than have my pitch fork out and wearing a we hate all men t-shirt. I meant: what practical help are you providing regarding OP's specific situation? As I pointed out upthread, 1) she must have got the idea now, 2) she can't turn back time and 3) this thread is asking for support for her.

There are ways to be fair to men without dropping in a wall of text about how women have to behave better.

I was not attempting to do what you are saying at all.

I am trying to present a number of possible reasons why this situation occurred. There are some people who have posted on this thread who have the emotional intelligence to know exactly how things like this occur.

How can things be fixed now?

be honest with your husband and communicate. talk talk talk, and talk some more. decide what kind of marriage you both want, and compromise, and if compromise isn't possible then be honest and make a plan to go your separate ways. Your old marriage has died, you need marriage 2.0 now which for him will include emotional connections and intimacy/sex. I have presented a few arguments on this thread which state most men (not the shit ones) want to be intimate with their wives, and only them, however if they are rejected by their wives then they look elsewhere for that emotional connection and sex/intimacy, rightly or wrongly.

gaijinetal · 29/01/2021 11:30

Also, I hate to say it, but sex twice a year with someone who doesn't want to be having sex is actually pretty soul destroying.

Then discuss it, highlight that it's actually really important to you, and if it doesn't change consistently ... Separate.

You don't have to cheat.

Yes he'd be breaking up his marriage, but how is this not breaking up a marriage anyway. He'll be v lucky if his marriage survived this.

And perhaps he meant to leave when circumstances allowed anyway, it's not clear.

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