Think I may need to choose between ds and dh....

[Dickorydockwhatthe]

I've put many threads on mumsnet about their relationship. Dh and massively ds clash and this has worsened as ds has got older. It has led to some awful rows with me in the middle and even telling dh he's pushing his son away and I may have to choose. Dh is very authoritarian as a parent and doesn't know when to choose his battles which has resulted in ds 16 rebellion, lashing out, having no respect for dh and now wanting to go into Foster care. I've spoken to dh many a times and he's tried but it goes back to how it was. Now ds is 16 and rebelling his authoritarian approach is having no effect because he's so accustomed to dh shouting or getting annoyed nothing works. I feel like I've failed ds massively as he's so anti dh right now and I think I've let him down😔. Dh is a good man in many ways and a good husband. But for some reason he thinks kids should do as they are told and be respectful and ds isn't like that. Ds 2 on the hand is completely different. School are now involved and we are planning to have a family conference for meditation. Ds has expressed he wants to leave. I've looked into leaving dh not because I don't love him but because of the toxic relationship between him and ds. But coming from a broken home myself I felt we could try and work on it as we are a family and ultimately we love each other very much. But I've let ds down and now I may lose him. If I leave dh we have no where to live, I can't afford the mortgage on my own as only work part time and my pay isn't great. I'm financially dependent on dh and have no idea where I stand with raising two children alone. I just feel like this is going to break out family apart and have no idea what to do 🙁

I would suggest everyone running down THE CHILD in this situation and calling him disgusting names should look at the OP’s other threads before galloping around on their high horses.

Choose your son OP, or lose him.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

Considering your previous posts about DH have included him going to strip clubs, getting lap dances, binge drinking and being sick in your bed due to that drinking he might want to be a bit less of a hypocritical wanker when it comes to expecting a particularly positive response to telling a 16 year old they aren't behaving well.

He was basically absent for the first 7 years of your son's life due to work.

Then, he spent a good few years (based on the timing of your previous posts) coming home at all hours when he felt like it, drinking loads and being so disrespectful that he went to strip clubs and spent family money on lap dances while he was there.

And now he expects your son to respect his authority? And is surprised that now your son is finally of an age and size to square up to him that he does so? What a peach.

I would wager he's controlling in general and has created an eggshell atmosphere and you don't even realise you enable it. I used to get so angry with my dad for trying to dictate the mood of the house, would challenge him about it (not aggressively) and then my mum would shush me and defend him when he had been totally unreasonable. It damaged my relationship with her for quite some time.

Read your old posts. This really isn't your son's issue, it's about time your 'D'H grew the fuck up himself.

This!!!

It's not dh or ds fault he was away. What I was saying is ds used to refuse to speak to dh when he was away. It's common during deployments for some children. Dh needs to dort himself out. I do discipline ds too but I pick my battles. Some of ds behaviour has not been acceptable. Dh has taken the phone off ds do we can discuss the laptop and how he can pay for it or whatever. Ds has ignored it and since asking for his phone back he wants to go into care. So do I give him back his phone and see if that changes? I'm not denying dh needs sort it out and to stay calm and not bitem

@Dickorydockwhatthe

Your husband served in the forces

He is well versed in acting being like a army Sargent Major type at home.
Your husband is a classic bullying father career isn't it !

I bet he your husband had a emotionally step father or father ?
And that's why he escaped to the army wasn't it from the abuse back home isn't it?

I've just had a quick look at your previous posts, your husband sounds unhinged to be honest and I'm not surprised your poor son is now standing up for himself!

What are you going to do about this then? Nothing it seems because you've been putting up with your husbands shitty behaviour for years, I feel sorry for the children

What’s this thread for? You keep wittering on about how great your bully of a husband is. Prioritise your kid, ffs, he’s literally crying out for it.

So,l just to get this completely clear

your son didn’t have a great bond with his father until he was in his life regularly when he turned 7ish because he was in the forces?

What role did your DH have? It may relevant. He returned to home life where you’re ‘boss’, your son listening to you over him (because he didn’t know your husband/his father well, I’m making an assumption here based on personal experience and what you’ve said) your husband could be trying to exert dominance and his place in the family and because your son hasn’t complied ( no trust built with your husband being controlling ) your son Has fought back.

I lived this, this was my life and the relationship never repaired.

You won’t change your husband if this is the case and he really needs to get over himself. You don’t gain respect by forcing someone to follow orders. It may have worked on you husband but your son isn’t him.

You can heal your son though. It’s going to take a lot of time.

Read the title of this thread OP.

Read the words of it. Carefully. Really take them in. You wrote the words of the thread title, they are yours. That was the concern that drove you to write this thread.

And ask yourself if you think a decent husband and father would have even mentioned he thinks you might need to make that choice.

Then read the old threads you wrote.

He sounds like a prick and your son sounds like a product of his environment who could likely thrive in a supportive, calm and compassionate one without one parent who is a drill sergeant. Be his protector by investing in his future not just firefighting / refereeing to keep the peace. Or choosing between them?! That's a cop out I'm afraid.

@Dickorydockwhatthe

I ment to say I bet your husband had a emotionally abusive /bullying father/step father as a child growing up ?

Just to add your younger son is only complying because he knows no other life and can see and feel the anguish at hone from his brother. He’s complying out of self preservation.

Your son has SEN, presumably is in GCSE year and feels he has nothing to study for. It's bloody hard for some dyslexics to focus on a screen all day. Aside from all that turmoil, he's 16. 16 year old boys are not known for being compliant in general let alone against the shitstorm of covid and lockdowns and all the things mentioned above.

Your husband isn't in the army any more. Your sons aren't his cadets. Would he speak to you the way he speaks to your DS? Would you accept your husband pinning you down to stop you leaving the house?! If not, why is it ok that he did this to your son?

I recommend you advance search your own name and look at your husband's behaviour over the years. Time for a big change, either by your husband or by you. Your son needs his parents to step up.

Your poor DS

@evenBetter

What’s this thread for? You keep wittering on about how great your bully of a husband is. Prioritise your kid, ffs, he’s literally crying out for it.

Op seems to want people to tell her it's ok to continue being complicit in this abuse.

It's not dh or ds fault he was away. What I was saying is ds used to refuse to speak to dh when he was away

@Dickorydockwhatthe but you only mentioned how hard it was for your DH. Not a word about how hard and confusing that would have been for a small child or what you or your husband did to make things easier FOR THE CHILD.

But you are determined not to hold your husband to any real responsibility for any of this.
If he doesn’t ‘sort’ himself you’ll let things continue with occasional posts about how awful your son’s behaviour is until he leaves home and then you’ll come back wringing your hands about why he’s cut contact with you when you and your husband have done nothing wrong.

My DS is only 5, but I'm pretty sure that is the future for him and DH, who also seems to think zero tolérance is the only way to parent. I don't even disagree on the things DS does wrong, but the tone is just so mean ans spiteful. No advice really, sorry. Your DS will leave.

Sorry not making sense. What I'm saying is ds can be difficult for example if we don't have desert or something for tea he likes he will sulk and dh can't handle it. I'm going to ask dh to leave. I've agreed to family conference. I'm still not sure about the bloody phone. I was reluctant to take it away but agreed with dh until we could decide together how to handle the whole lap top situation and him slacking off school to go meet friends when we said we didn't want him to due to covid and school work.

@tatutata

My DS is only 5, but I'm pretty sure that is the future for him and DH, who also seems to think zero tolérance is the only way to parent. I don't even disagree on the things DS does wrong, but the tone is just so mean ans spiteful. No advice really, sorry. Your DS will leave.

You aren't staying with this man surely?!

I'm sorry your son sounds to me like he lacks discipline. I can not imagine any of my children smashing a laptop in my presence in anger, it just won't happen and if it did, there would be consequences. Having said that, I think mediation might help to improve their relationship. Are there any family members that could help?

Your son has spent his entire life being abused.

You've forced him to continue living with abuse even as he has begged you to protect him.

I don't know why you're talking about a mobile phone.

Sorry not making sense. What I'm saying is ds can be difficult for example if we don't have desert or something for tea he likes he will sulk and dh can't handle it.

This is basically one of THE ACTUAL TAMEST ways a 16 year old boy could rebel and your husband STILL can't handle it?! Are you kidding? He's hardly popping pills and coming in at 3am with eyes like saucers is he?!

That example isn't him being difficult, it's him being almost every single 16 year old boy in the country.

If my husband who got shitfaced and paid for another woman to lap dance on him had the nerve to be able to 'not handle' their son being sulky about pudding I would be physically unable to summon any respect for him whatsoever.

Although I would have been unable to respect him and left him when he did the whole lap dance thing but that's not the point as I know many people decide to stay with guys who do that stuff. Even if it's devastating for them, which is really sad.

What an absolute baby this man is. I've got the second hand ick.

Op seems to want people to tell her it's ok to continue being complicit in this abuse

And sadly she’s getting people doing just that.

There’s been a really disturbing trend on MN recently where any post centring issues caused by a grown man being a bully or abuser or manchild is flooded by women defending the men at every cost and putting the blame back on the women and children who are the victims of these people.

On the feminism board it’s asked so many times who is raising boys to become men like this and the answer is - so many women on these boards.

What lessons has the DS here learned about relationships?
That love is conditional on total compliance.
That men must be obeyed.
That women stand by and let children be bullied.

It’s sickening.

Wow, your son is doing a fine job in manipulating you.

And your husband loses his wife. And you your husband.
Your other two children lose living with a father they get in with.

And your son discovers that he can make that happen by breaking expensive equipment, breaking the law and being a brat.

I'm not sure what the lesson is going to be here for him, but I don't see it being very helpful for anyone long term.

Family counselling is a far better suggestion.

And how could you not be sure about taking his phone off him after he delibrately smashed a laptop, and when he keeps going AWOL with friends that you know are a bad influence.

I'm not sure if it's your husband being very authoritarian here or you just letting your son get away with anything.

You can't blame the son as such, but I think some posters might be being over harsh about the father. Sounds like the son has issues, which may or may not be related to his father's absence early in his life. His behaviour sounds like it has been problematic (whatever the cause) and the father doesn't know how to adapt his parenting to deal with it.

The only sensible advice, which many have given, is to seek help with parenting. Or perhaps, given the son is 16, relationship counselling. Whether either or both would agree to it is another matter.

Certainly your DH, OP, at the very least should consider parenting advice for himself. Its easy to say strict parenting is fine but it doesn't work for some children. "The Explosive Child" might be a helpful book to read.

Boundaries are good but they can't necessarily be inflexible, and by 16, the setting of boundaries should be done collaboratively with the child.

Sorry not making sense. What I'm saying is ds can be difficult for example if we don't have desert or something for tea he likes he will sulk and dh can't handle it

Good god what a pathetic, weak excuse for a parent your husband is.

And I would bet every penny I have he doesn’t confine that behaviour to your son.