Think I may need to choose between ds and dh....

[Dickorydockwhatthe]

I've put many threads on mumsnet about their relationship. Dh and massively ds clash and this has worsened as ds has got older. It has led to some awful rows with me in the middle and even telling dh he's pushing his son away and I may have to choose. Dh is very authoritarian as a parent and doesn't know when to choose his battles which has resulted in ds 16 rebellion, lashing out, having no respect for dh and now wanting to go into Foster care. I've spoken to dh many a times and he's tried but it goes back to how it was. Now ds is 16 and rebelling his authoritarian approach is having no effect because he's so accustomed to dh shouting or getting annoyed nothing works. I feel like I've failed ds massively as he's so anti dh right now and I think I've let him down😔. Dh is a good man in many ways and a good husband. But for some reason he thinks kids should do as they are told and be respectful and ds isn't like that. Ds 2 on the hand is completely different. School are now involved and we are planning to have a family conference for meditation. Ds has expressed he wants to leave. I've looked into leaving dh not because I don't love him but because of the toxic relationship between him and ds. But coming from a broken home myself I felt we could try and work on it as we are a family and ultimately we love each other very much. But I've let ds down and now I may lose him. If I leave dh we have no where to live, I can't afford the mortgage on my own as only work part time and my pay isn't great. I'm financially dependent on dh and have no idea where I stand with raising two children alone. I just feel like this is going to break out family apart and have no idea what to do 🙁

@DuchessOfDoombar

Your posts make sense.

This boys behaviour is a result of years of bullying.

Anger is a feature of frustration and depression.

The boys behaviour in isolation is awful, if seen in isolation coming from a normal family.

But it isn't in isolation.
It's reactive and escalating.

He's been bullied for years by his father and is now prepared to take him on.

He would rather be anywhere than at home.

He would rather go to strangers than go home.

It's astounding that so many posters don't realise how traumatic it must have been for this autocratic man to have landed in the life of this child who was dealing with language processing difficulties.

It's highly likely he loathes his father.

Love my arse.

If that boy doesn't get the help and supports he needs, you can write off his future.

As the other boy, God help him being reared in such a stressful environment.....just trying to keep his head down and avoid being a target of his father.

@DuchessOfDoombar
I suggest you read @Babyboomtastic's post just before yours

he screams and shouts no matter how the son behaves.

Evidence for this please? He shouts when the soon doesn't do things, that's different from sitting and screaming whatever his behaviour.

A man who loses the plot because a child with a processing disorder doesn’t obey him immediately or a because a teenager sulks isn’t a reasonable person or a good father.

Evidence please that the dad losses the plot at sulking? He gives it difficult to cope with the sulking, but where does the op say he loses it at this?

When the son went AWOL, this was the dad's response btw...

"sorry, dh found him. He ended up dropping him to his friends then picking him up an hour later for him to cool down." (This was from September)

This doesn't sound like furious bull at a gate father, but quite a sensible one.

I expect dh has never formed a parental relationship with DS. As you say he was away early in his life and ds wasnt able to engage with him during that time.

So your DS resents Dh trying to parent him when they have no respect for each other.

However I would be hesitant to allow your ds to control whether you live with your Dh or not.

It sounds like your DS wants to go into care as he feels there will be more freedom and less responsibility for him there. I expect his friends have given him an idealised view of that as peer groups tend to do.

If the school and social services are involved perhaps a period of independent living would be good for him, or it could just be a test or how much you guys truly love him and that pushing that would be the final step for him to disconnect from you all.

Sounds like your Dh needs to step up properly and build a positive relationship with your ds perhaps centred around a hobby that they could then build on.

Oh, and I've since a 'find' search on this thread. Nowhere does the OP use the word scream, in any context.

@billy1966 it’s frustrating but so common for a child’s terrible behaviour to be blamed on the solely on the child.

As if they just woke up one day and chose to start behaving like that.

I work with people who were teenagers who went off the rails and are now adults with serious MH issues, addictions, homelessness and relationships problems.

In every case there is a parent issue - absent, authoritarian, didn’t support them or get the right or any help for additional needs, bullied them, dismissed them, belittled them, the list goes on.

Most parents do their best and because they aren’t perfect it sometimes isn’t enough.

Some parents do what is best for them and those are the ones that cause the most damage and take the least responsibility.

In fact, the OP in her extensive history on MN has used the word screaming/scream/screams 4 times, none of which relate to either this son of her husband. It's a complete fiction.

Your son sounds like the problem. He is the one in need on counselling.

There is nothing wrong with shouting if kids don't do things that they should. All parents shout at their kids sometimes. Nothing shocking about it

@Babyboomtastic

Read the ops posts.

I won’t be adding more to this thread. The OP wants to be told her son is at fault and that’s what you are happy to do.

In the meantime a child who has been let down for years is being demonised by adults on this thread for behaviour that has been caused by his father’s repeated and condoned behaviour towards him.

I have no doubt her son is making family life hell and is not a very nice person to be around.

But if OP didn’t think her husband was part of the problem she wouldn’t be asking strangers on the internet about possibly having to choose between them.

Where is the will to work together as a family?
Why, if she prioritises her sons well-being in the short term, will it ruin her family? Or leave her financially struggling?

A loving and supportive father would emotionally, practically and financially support a plan that would be in his sons and family’s greater interest, however hard or hurtful.

The only mentions of things 'getting physical' are (1) a mention of mum holding son by the arm at one stage (from memory to stop him jumping out of the window or something), which resulted in the son complaining to his friends that he'd been hit (2) dad pining the son in similar circumstances - the son tried to jump out of the bedroom window

And this is what I'm referring to. Once a child gets to near-adult age, this is simply not a safe method of parenting.

It is also wrong on a different level- just as a family member trying to restrain the OP would be wrong, however much she was wrong in what she proposed to do (self-defence being the exception). After a certain age you have to respect physical boundaries.

That is why the earlier years and the preteens are so crucial: this is when you have to establish a different relationship and different ways of engaging with each other, because the day will come when you cant just grab their arms and restrain them. It was the dh's job to do that, to find ways in which he could still make an impact on his son when his son grew too old to be barked at or moved out of the way. Did the dh do that job? The OP seems to think not, difficult for us to judge.

How many times now have you been told that your husband is an abusive nasty bully? Your posts get worse every time you come on here. You ignore everything everyone says, including support links etc.

Don’t bother giving her advice, she won’t listen.

Hopefully DS tells the truth about how his life has been since Dear Daddy came home from deployment and someone fucking does something about it, cos OP sure as shit won’t.

@corythatwas

Mum did this too, not just dad.
And if he was about to jump out an upstairs window?

I agree they they need to learn how to better parent teens. Tbh, at the point where they are breaking multiple items in the house, taking part in videoed gang fights etc, then this really should have happened before.

The Mums approach of seemingly do nothing (she seems to be very passive with her son) or the Dad's approach of shouting are both in effective and polarising. This family needs urgent help.

So it's not OK to restrain a teenager who is about to kill himself by jumping out of a window?

Mumsnet is really bonkers.

Does anyone (you or your dh) ever LISTEN to the children?

Like really, actually listen?

That might be a good starting point.

Ok I've looked through loads of the OPs threads and apart from the ds father restraining him so he wouldn't jump out his bedroom window, I can't find anything to suggest he's been abusive or a bully where are you all getting this?
Sometimes kids do go off the rails for no reason. I did. My parents were perfectly fine, didn't stop me from getting in with the wrong people, smoking, drinking every day, skipping school, not doing school work, getting pregnant at 17.

Such a shame then parental relationship has broken down. Does the H accept he has any responsibility whatsoever? Is he willing to compromise or meet his son half way? There's no evidence of that as far as I can see.

OP, I have been there and done that. I left. Divorce is horrendous, but it was the right decision.

Why are you not doing anything to protect your son from his abusive father. Smashing up your son’s property is not ok. From what you’ve said, I would tell my husband to leave. You shouldn’t be the one to leave. You have a duty to protect your children and you are not doing this.
If you allow your child to to into foster care, or even more so into local authority care, there is a high likelihood that he’ll end up knocking around with other juveniles who are actively involved in child criminal exploitation. It’s very common within the world of teenage boys in care. The pull is extremely strong because they can make a lot of money, but the risk to them is also significant.
It’s not going to be easy for you, but you need to step up and take action now, before the damage to your son is irreversible.
Your husband’s authoritarian manner or should I say bullying behaviour needs addressing.

@Carysmatthews for the millionth time... OP's son smashed up his own laptop.

Well your son is an adult almost at 16. I left home then. Is there a residential 6th form college or something your son could go to?

[quote XelaM]@Carysmatthews for the millionth time... OP's son smashed up his own laptop.[/quote]
I understand you're telling the other poster it was the son who smashed up the pc and not the father.

He isn't smashing his laptop up because he's 'naughty' he has smashed it up because he has internalised his feeling. He's sad and it coming out in anger. I'm not saying it ok to smash your things up I'm just giving you the reason why.

Help the cause and not the symptom.

@Bumblebee1980a

And the first time he dropped the laptop?
And the door handles he's broken?
And the pictures?
And the going AWOL?
The getting involved in videoed gang fights?
The smoking in his room?
Swearing at members of his family?
Refusing to do any chores whatsoever?
Refusing to do school work?
Demanding to be taken to see friends (illegally)?
Repeatedly breaking lockdown?

He's 'internalizing his saddness' only takes you so far. Its not an excuse for his behaviour. It may be a reason for it, but its still not excusable.

[quote Babyboomtastic]@Bumblebee1980a

And the first time he dropped the laptop?
And the door handles he's broken?
And the pictures?
And the going AWOL?
The getting involved in videoed gang fights?
The smoking in his room?
Swearing at members of his family?
Refusing to do any chores whatsoever?
Refusing to do school work?
Demanding to be taken to see friends (illegally)?
Repeatedly breaking lockdown?

He's 'internalizing his saddness' only takes you so far. Its not an excuse for his behaviour. It may be a reason for it, but its still not excusable.[/quote]
Yes but sounds like there are some deep seated issues from what the OP had said.

He has no respite from his father. It's a constant stress for him and he feels hopeless. I'd like to see his behaviour when you take him away from the hostile situation. He probably feels he can't do anything right so he might as well not bother doing anything right.

Offering a different perspective..

Hi OP, sorry this sounds so difficult.
Could you request a referral (or pay for) family therapy to help get everyone to understand and come together?
Could you mediate and set out rules around taking turns at speaking, no shouting, no fall out after the discussions? Could you help them come together to make a timetable/list of expectations and a timeframe for them to be done - e.g. not immediately like DH wants but not forever like son wants?
Could DH do with anger management?
Could they do things to bond together?

Sorry just some quick suggestions and I had not read all replies but I wish you the best with it.

The son certainly sounds out of control if he's smashing things up and getting into gang fights.

I'm surprised then that the school haven't picked up on this behaviour before as surely he's also acting out at school?

Some children just are very difficult to deal with but I don't know what's going on at home for him. When a child is acting out, the first place you look at is what's going on at home. The brother also sounds as though something is going on for him as children shouldn't be completely compliant and quiet.

What is obvious is that this boy is getting an awful amount of the wrong kind of attention. Perhaps he felt that when his dad came back, he lost all the attention in the house. Is he the eldest?

The atmosphere at home sounds negative, aggressive, chaotic and most of all, unkind. Does your son get any positive attention at all or is it just people shouting at him and taking things away from him?

Hopefully the school can guide you on how to get help and put you in contact with people who can advise you.