Think I may need to choose between ds and dh....

[Dickorydockwhatthe]

I've put many threads on mumsnet about their relationship. Dh and massively ds clash and this has worsened as ds has got older. It has led to some awful rows with me in the middle and even telling dh he's pushing his son away and I may have to choose. Dh is very authoritarian as a parent and doesn't know when to choose his battles which has resulted in ds 16 rebellion, lashing out, having no respect for dh and now wanting to go into Foster care. I've spoken to dh many a times and he's tried but it goes back to how it was. Now ds is 16 and rebelling his authoritarian approach is having no effect because he's so accustomed to dh shouting or getting annoyed nothing works. I feel like I've failed ds massively as he's so anti dh right now and I think I've let him down😔. Dh is a good man in many ways and a good husband. But for some reason he thinks kids should do as they are told and be respectful and ds isn't like that. Ds 2 on the hand is completely different. School are now involved and we are planning to have a family conference for meditation. Ds has expressed he wants to leave. I've looked into leaving dh not because I don't love him but because of the toxic relationship between him and ds. But coming from a broken home myself I felt we could try and work on it as we are a family and ultimately we love each other very much. But I've let ds down and now I may lose him. If I leave dh we have no where to live, I can't afford the mortgage on my own as only work part time and my pay isn't great. I'm financially dependent on dh and have no idea where I stand with raising two children alone. I just feel like this is going to break out family apart and have no idea what to do 🙁

OP, your partner is clearly abusive, he is the problem, so territorial and 'primitive' that he cant tolerate the presence of another male in the household
It's hard for anyone to think clearly in such a tense, toxic situation:(

You could try family counselling but I get the impression you are not interested and your DH is probably too busy bullying, with other women, drinking to be bothered also.

Your DS is heading into adulthood now and he isn't asking to stay with you so I'm not sure why you are asking whether you should choose? Your DS wants to leave you and DH from your posts? This is what happens in abusive homes, the child becomes the adult and blames the abuser and the person who constantly defended the abuser. I'm sorry to tell you OP but it is not unusual that they struggle with the defender more. The younger sibling could be just taking a "keep the head down until I get out of here" approach which is also not uncommon.

You have clearly choosen your man. I highly doubt your lovely DH will go to family
counselling so you should focus your mind on helping DS get away from you both.

You're way too late OP.

The damage is already well and truly done.

Only your DS pays the price, not you.

OP, I have a difficult teen. I get it. But it is almost impossible to say whether your DH is truly abusive as others have suggested from the picture you have painted, or whether your DH is merely trying to control awful behaviour from your DS who sounds far too big for his boots.

I think your DH has the right to be respected in his own house and I think you be supporting him trying to manage behaviour. I don't blame your DH for losing his rag at a spoiled brat who has smashed up expensive possessions and runs away from home.

It sounds like your DS is calling the shots here and you are kowtowing to him and allowing him to blackmail you. If my 16 year old said he wanted to go into care, I'd tell him good luck with that and hand him the phone and social services number.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

Thank you. I think that solves some of my confusion. I was only looking in threads for the past couple of years. I agree that heavy drinking, vomitting through drink and strip clubs are totally innapropriate behaviour from him.

@youvegottenminuteslynn
None of these screen shots show the great guy OP says he is, do they?

OP defended him for how he behaves when drinking up the thread.

Her oldest son will be out the door soon and god speed to him. I hope his ‘rough’ friends and grandparents give him the love that’s sorely missing right now.

I think OP will be rather shocked to realise that once the ‘problem’ is out of the way, things won’t be better in that household.

Ds does have learning difficulties Any fuckers you are right he has developmental language disorder. I'm currently fighting for EHCP but this has all stopped due to covid. There are lots of issues and I've not posted all because it's too much tttin to think of everything to give a true picture. The drinking for dh was when he goes out once in a blue moon. That's never been an issue with the kids. I just wanted advice as it's destroying our family. I've just literally started a new job, less hours due to ds behaviour getting involved with a bad crowd which I've also not put on here and to help with home schooling so now I have no means of supporting them if we do split up. We moved last year to a bigger house, boys have own rooms and it made such a difference to everyone. Ds1 mood was much better, no sibling arguing or arguing with dh we all seemed happier It's only been last few months things have started again and the relationship between dh and ds become more strained which has brought everything back up.

I've name changed so my comments aren't linked to my normal profile. I grew up with this sort of person - aggressive, abusive, drinker. It isn't nice. Even your compliant ds 2 (that was me) will be on the receiving end as they get older and have their own opinions and ideas.

Your husband is a good father when everyone follows his rules. As soon as someone has a different preference he goes off. As a kid in this environment it's shit. There was a time when both my sister and I would have left and never looked back if we'd known the other was thinking the same. That was after he threatened her boyfriend with a crow bar. I was 17 at the time. I left home at 18. I still see family etc but my time there is very limited - a day every couple of months.

My sister has never forgiven my mum for staying. I'm more the past is what it is and there's no point dwelling. Doesn't mean you remember it fondly or think it was acceptable.

If you don't leave your husband, you'll have to accept that your DS1 will go like a flash as soon as he can. Whether he stays in contact with you will depend. You've put your kids through a lifetime of this BS. If they're like me, they'll never trust anyone as you never know when they're going to turn on you. Remember I was the compliant one, not the defiant one. I'm just as damaged even though it may not appear that way on the outside. You get very good at hiding your true thoughts as you know what happens when someone expresses them - you see the fallout.

So another strongly in the LTB camp.

[quote Babyboomtastic]@youvegottenminuteslynn

Thank you. I think that solves some of my confusion. I was only looking in threads for the past couple of years. I agree that heavy drinking, vomitting through drink and strip clubs are totally innapropriate behaviour from him.[/quote]
And also make it all the more ridiculous he 'can't handle' a 16 year old being mardy about pudding.

Maybe if he had been a better role model he would have a leg to stand on, but he's behaved like a louty teenager despite being an adult man and now expects his actual teenager not to act out.

He sounds really odd and I feel very sorry for DS as it must be painfully obvious where his mum's loyalties lie 😞

Even the thread title I just can't get over.

Get family therapy.
If your DH wants to fix this he will agree.

Your role as a mother is more important than your role as a wife.

Leave, be prepared for a lifestyle change to income drop and support your children.

It’s not easy but doing the right thing rarely is.

Op - no one on here can give you proper advice unless you are honest with us about how your dh has actually behaved. Some pps have reposted some of your comments about him getting drunk, messaging other women, destroying your trust, vomiting in your bed, shouting and swearing and waking your dc up etc. You have also said that he always gets like this when he is drunk (which you now seem to be denying) and that he gropes you when he comes back at 4 or 5am. In the next breath you are saying that he is a good husband and father... this is not how a good husband and father behaves.

There is no point in denying things that you have already talked about because it just means that people can't give you helpful advice! I'm not trying to be unkind, op, but please be honest with yourself. You and your family can't go on like this.

People are very against your DH here, but the actual facts you've given us so far are that your DH is nitpicking and shouts (not great), confiscated a phone from a child who had just smashed the laptop that presumably you boihjt him.

Your DS smashed his own laptop, won't follow covid rules enough to live with his.grandparents, is squaring up to DH and you fear violence, is.demanding to go into foster care after hearing from his (either clueless or.dangerous) friends that it will be cushier...

Like others say, it sounds like your.DH could do with a parenting course but unless you share more specifics or backstory it sounds like maybe you're a little blind to.DS'se here.

This is sounds like you're ds is being very manpulative, he clearly dispectful and yes he should do as he's told and be respectful in the household, if that means picking up after himself it does. Smashing his laptop is disgraceful he was lucky he had one. What does he think will happen in the real world if he's got a job can he speak to his boss like that or break something because it didn't go the way he wanted.

Have you actually read the thread Teardrop?

@Teardrop2021 if you are cherry picking to suit your theory of how awful the son is, how about from a thread where OP states her sons laptop gave up a few weeks back.

Or that it was smashed during an argument where her husband was physically pinning his son down.

Or any number of threads where her husband was an aggressive, disrespectful drunk.

There is no doubt the son is behaving badly. But it’s because he has been parented badly, by a domineering, loutish bully who demands levels of respect he hasn’t earned and behaviour he doesn’t model himself.

A bullied child with learning disabilities is at an age and size where he can defend himself against someone who can’t handle even very normal teenage behaviour without acting out himself.

If all he has seen is manipulative, agressive behaviour as a way of being assertive, that is what he will copy.

Dh I guess has the mindset that he should be respectful and work hard so cannot tolerate ds attitude.

From a recent thread. Guess that respect only extends to men then? Not women (from wives to lap dancers) or children. Nice. Honestly OP your DH really does sound like a wanker.

This is a shocking thread.
Particularly the references to other threads, which lay out a vastly worst view of your husband.

That poor boy, having that nasty, loud bullying drunken sleeze, come into his life at such a tender age.

He's had 9 years of this.
HIS behaviour is reactive to the horror of being relentlessly bullied and picked on.

And he has language difficulties?

Jesus some children don't get a break.

Him going to the school and requesting help tells us a lot.
Children are mostly loathe to reach out.
But your son would rather be in foster care than be with either of his parents.

It reads as if he feels abandoned by you too OP.
It reads as if you have stood by him being terrorised in his home since Sergeant Major returned, and tried to impose his law on the house?

The bad behaviour of your son in isolation would be dreadful, but after years of being bullied, he is clearly traumatised and is reacting to anything your husband does.

When you give birth to a child, your first loyalty is to them.
To keep them safe and protect them.
That is ahead of your husband.
Do you not realise this?

It is clear by allowing this to go on for years you have chosen your husband.

Now your son is pulling away from you both, having reached out for support.

What a pity he can't be facilitated with foster care, he at least would be safe from your husband.

You don't sound like a bad woman OP, but you sound very weak.
You have made very poor choices putting that abusive husband ahead of your child.

You may live to bitterly regret it.

Sadly, it will be your son who suffers most, trying to grow into adulthood, coming from such toxic abusive background.

If you cant and wont provide him with a safe home, help him access support from SS.

Oh and your other son is just keepingbhis head dow but will be equally traumatised by your husband.

Poor boys.

@sadie9

Get family therapy. If your DH wants to fix this he will agree.

I doubt he would ever agree to that, an authoritarian will not take direction from a therapist, plus going for therapy would be a tacit admission that there is something wrong with him and he cannot allow that to be the case Remember he is the alpha, he must be obeyed and he is always right.... because he says so

You say ''deep down they love each other'' - wrong - DS does not love DH and will leave if he can asap. Neither you nor DH seem bothered enough that he has actually told the school he wants to go into care because of DH's behaviour. It's a dire situation the boy feels he is in. You should not be thinking of platitudes like ''holding the family together'' - the situation appears to be past that now.

This is such a sad thread

Your poor DS

@OverTheRubicon

People are very against your DH here, but the actual facts you've given us so far are that your DH is nitpicking and shouts (not great), confiscated a phone from a child who had just smashed the laptop that presumably you boihjt him.

Your DS smashed his own laptop, won't follow covid rules enough to live with his.grandparents, is squaring up to DH and you fear violence, is.demanding to go into foster care after hearing from his (either clueless or.dangerous) friends that it will be cushier...

Like others say, it sounds like your.DH could do with a parenting course but unless you share more specifics or backstory it sounds like maybe you're a little blind to.DS's role here.

Yep. If one of my kids smashed up their laptop, I'd be taking their phone away too.

There's fault on both sides, and this is a situation crying out for family therapy.

OP, what do YOU do to discipline your son? What's your reaction when he doesn't follow Covid rules, or smashes things up?

Sorry, I thought I'd read all the thread when I posted above. But there was another page. Clearly there's more going on, given the historical posts.

Your dh needs to model the behaviour he wants from his dc. If he models the wrong behaviour then he shouldn't be surprised by what comes back to him.

In your shoes I'd separate. You don't have to divorce but you need to keep your ds and dh apart until your dh learns how to handle angry adolescents.

Does you Husband not now realise, that his authorative stance on how he treats your son, is causing the son to rebel against him, and so should now modify his behaviour towards your son.It should be plainly obvious to him. It is not excusing bad behaviour from your son, but at 16, some children get very stroppy about lots of things, that you do need to curtail at times, but not with massive shows of anger from a parent.

You son has gone into a new phase, of mixing with other boys,and got some fanciful ideas from them, He most certainly won't find happiness, going into foster care etc.

I'm absolutely appalled. I agree with the other posters your DS is truly the one who suffers the most.